3D Printing........Scratch Building or Not?

[Texas_3D_Customs]

56 minutes ago, Brizio said:

I think you can still can, with a implanted device that uses neural signal.

I don't think we are quite there yet, I could be wrong but Elon is working on it.

[Big John]

Elon should be the first recipient of his brain implant.

[Big John]

On 11/29/2023 at 4:18 PM, Muncie said:

 

I remember going to grandma's house when I was a kid.  One of the treats was fresh biscuits for breakfast.  One morning all the cousins were talking about how good it was to have "scratch" biscuits.  Grandma was almost offended - to her "those aren't scratch biscuits" and corrected our terminology - the flour, milk, and butter came from the store.  As I remember it, she did have her own biscuit starter in the fridge.  Years later, I realized that she could go back to her times fixing breakfast for the harvest crew on the wheat ranch when she was a kid and helped till the soil, plant the seed, grow the wheat, harvest the grain, grind the wheat into flour, raise the cows, milk them, and churn the butter by hand.  

I think one of the few times the term "scratch" may be used or important around model cars is in contests.  GSL had a definition in their rules. 

and what does the GSL rules say?

[Big John]

When Life gives you dead horses... Make glue!

[bobss396]

On 11/29/2023 at 12:51 PM, bobthehobbyguy said:

So back to the original question.

So if I make aluminum parts for a model with just simple tools like files, hacksaw blades, etc then that would be considered scratchbuilding.

At the next level I use a lathe and mill. Is that scratchbuilding?

Finally I write a program to cnc the parts and for some that isn't scratchbuilding. Why?

One guy in my club, he has been making the most intricate parts for years. Transmissions with working shifters, opened gas tank doors, working sun visors, carburetors that look real. Some of the best coil-over suspension I have ever seen. He did make some rims on a lathe, but most is truly hand-made using saws, files and drills. I have seen him drill a .006" hole in some parts. 

I used to take some BLAH_BLAH_BLAH_BLAH at shows for parts I made in the machine shop. Then I started seeing others doing them. There was a company, MAS out of Michigan, Mark Smakl. He was quite the innovator in the aftermarket world. His PE parts were great, I'm glad to have stocked up on them. IIRC, he sold the company and I saw the new owner once at a show, then he vanished. Scale Repros is a great aluminum parts vendor for distributors, valve cover breathers, injector stacks, etc.

I used to have a lot of machine shop access at work, I still have CAD drawings and some DXF files on my designs. I made up a neat replacement for rear springs on AMT and Monogram stock car kits. My buddies with the CNC shops are either retired or moved out of state. I do have a Bridgeport mill, I need to get a small engine lathe soon. I have a Micro Mark drill press with a vise and XY table that has proved to be invaluable.

I'll say that having the ability to machine parts up is still scratch building. It only comes out with parts that are parallel, round and square over things that have obviously been done with a file and sanding sticks.

As a kid, we built roll cages out of the plastic trees and with some skill, they came out good enough. The only thing we really needed was a small round file. Now we can buy Evergreen and K&S tubing which is more realistic. That is what going to extremes in the hobby is all about.

[caapa]

IMHO we should start with the origin of the term:

- scratch is a manual activity with a tool in hand.

- building is no doubtfull.

While holding the workpiece and/or tool in your hand we can be sure it is scratchbuilding. If the tool is power tool in your hand the work is a scratchbuilding. This applies to hand-operated/controled lathes, milling, drilling, sanding macines because the workmanship is the result of your hands. This machines are giving power and accurarcy to your hands but they don't work without them.

But if you set up a machine to make a part, the result is not the result of the work done by your hands, but by the machine. And of course by your brain with the special knowledge to control and program the machines and even write your own program for a specific component.  This kind of building models isn`t scratch building but building by a high level of knowledge in machine programing, program writing and design for such programmed preparation.

 If I would build a model this way I would say:                   done MbM. (Made by Machine)

And everybody know that your equipmenrt was a machine and not your hand.

[peteski]

40 minutes ago, caapa said:

IMHO we should start with the origin of the term:

- scratch is a manual activity with a tool in hand.

A lathe or a milling machine are all tools used for producing the desired parts.  You hold and turn their handwheels with your hand to move the cutter forming the parts.  A computer mouse or pen used by a CAD designer designing the part to be printed out on a 3D printer is also a tool held in their hand.  Sounds like your definition would limit the tool to all manual tools. Knives, files, and hand-cranked drills.  Not even a Dremel tool?

This thread is like politics - you will have many different opinions (all presenting valid points) and it is best to agree to disagree.

Edited December 22, 2023 by peteski

[Brian Austin]

FWIW:

https://www.merriam-webster.com/wordplay/from-scratch-word-history-origin

I don't expect this to settle arguments, but the history of the term is fascinating nonetheless.

[caapa]

21 hours ago, peteski said:

A lathe or a milling machine are all tools used for producing the desired parts.  You hold and turn their handwheels with your hand to move the cutter forming the parts.  A computer mouse or pen used by a CAD designer designing the part to be printed out on a 3D printer is also a tool held in their hand.  Sounds like your definition would limit the tool to all manual tools. Knives, files, and hand-cranked drills.  Not even a Dremel tool?

This thread is like politics - you will have many different opinions (all presenting valid points) and it is best to agree to disagree.

 

Hi peteski,

thank you for your comment. I stated my opinion about Dremel and similar power tools in relattion to „Scratchbuilding” (see  4 – 5th row in my text)

And you have right – the computer mouse and pen or tastatur are tools in your hand. You produce by this tools CAD designs, machine programs for any proramable CNC or 3D Printer or . . .  but no parts of a model. The parts will be produced by the machines according the design and programs what you made on computer. And the machines are doing this even without your presence.

Now I feel „Made By Machine” isn`t an optimal expression for all of that human efforts and knowledge and practice what necessary to make able a machine to produce a part.

If you agree let us find a good expression for this high level modeling !

[Big John]

What then of the lathe or mill or machine in general that preforms it's task by way of digital input.  The dremel is simply a motorized hand tool and does not operate independantly unless incorporated into a digitally controlled motorized operating system.  Digital in this case not referring to fingers or toes.