'Duel' movie truck question: front axle brakes

[robdebie]

A couple of months ago, I made a 3D model of the front wheel of the 'Duel' movie Peterbilt 281.

I also obtained AMT Parts Pack PP028 that contains 11.00-22 tires. After a break, I'm working on this project again. A club member will print the wheels for me. That made me think about how to mount them on the front axle.

The AMT Peterbilt 359 has front hubs (parts 31) that looks like disc brakes (which they aren't of course), that mount small-diameter cilindrical stub axles (parts 32), that mount on the front axle (part 78). Here's a composite picture of the old instruction sheet:

 

My question is: are there no drum brakes on the front axle? I checked the spec sheet, but the word 'service' in the 'brakes' entry confuses me badly.

Anyone here knows the answer? Thanks in advance!

Rob

[robdebie]

An immediate update: I saw this movie picture, where you can see through the wheel, and there's no massive drum brake behind it. Did I just answer my own question? ? But I'm still interested in what you guys think!

Rob

 

[Muncie]

No front brakes.  (I should probably say probably no front brakes because some trucks had them.)  They would not be required until about 1971 when Federal stopping distance requirements for new trucks went into effect.  Trucks just had a hub to attach the front wheel.  "Service" brakes are the stopping brakes as distinguished from the "parking" brakes.

[robdebie]

Thanks Steve! No brakes on the front axle, I'm amazed.. Thanks too for explaining that difference between "service" and "parking" brakes.

Now that's sorted, last question: what size wheel nuts would a wheel like that have? I'm asking because I'll either need to find suitable Grandt Line ones, or draw them and have them printed.

Rob

 

 

[Muncie]

Yeah, it was a different time.  A lot of drivers felt front brakes were unsafe because front brakes could lock up and the front axle would lose steering control. Just one reason...

I lost my old desk ornament, but it looks like the Budd wheel nuts are 1-1/2" across the flats.

 

 

[Force]

Exactly, no front brakes wich was an opted out thing from the option list on many trucks back then and up to the late 70's and maybe early 80's...some thought it wasn't safe having front brakes and some didn't think they needed them pulling trailers and thought they would have enough brakes anyway as they were on the drivers and trailer....I belive straight trucks with no trailer had to have brakes on the front tho'.

Those wheels looks good and I would like to be able to get a set or two for my upcoming Duel build wich is in the planning stage, the only ones of this style I have found so far were for 20 inch tires and they are too small...and the ones Moluminum makes for the Tyrone Malone transporter trucks but they have a molded in Baby Moon style hubcap and doesn't look right.
The main Duel truck in the movie had miss matched wheels on all axles except for the front where this style wheel was used...different color from side to side but the same style, all wheels were split ring/lock ring style and the drive axle outside wheel were 5 hole Alcoa and the tag axle had regular 5 hole Budd on the drivers side, the passenger side outside wheels were a 5 hole Budd on the drive axle and a 5 hole Alcoa on the tag axle, the tank trailer had 6 hole D-shaped Budds on the forward axle and 5 hole Budds on the rear, the tires were also different all over and the tread depth varys from almost bald to decent.
The truck seems to have been painted light gold from the beginning and lots and lots of grease and grime was put on over the paint for the movie, the truck was in makeup as much as the other caracters in the movie.

So I'm gathering parts for the project and I have most of the stuff needed, a 50's cab from Dave Natale at AITM with needlenose grille and butterfly hood, the Page and Page rear suspension from Pavel Behensky at Strato Models, the tank trailer from Doug at Keystone before he closed up shop, some wheels from different sources, decals from Modeltruckin', and a correct looking air cleaner.
The things I'm on the hunt for now are the front wheels like these, a Cat 1673 engine and a Kenworth style torsion bar suspension wich was on the tank trailer in the movie and I can get started.

Edited December 9, 2023 by Force

[Bugatti Fan]

I built a Duel Rig many years ago (back in the 80's) and unfortunately got the front wheels wrong by using the kit ones. Read somewhere that one of the AMT Fire Engine kits has the correct ones but cannot be sure if this info is correct.

[robdebie]

16 hours ago, Muncie said:

Yeah, it was a different time.  A lot of drivers felt front brakes were unsafe because front brakes could lock up and the front axle would lose steering control. Just one reason...

I lost my old desk ornament, but it looks like the Budd wheel nuts are 1-1/2" across the flats.

Thanks Steve! I will add them to the 3D model. That will also allow for a visual check of the nut size.

Rob

[robdebie]

3 hours ago, Bugatti Fan said:

I built a Duel Rig many years ago (back in the 80's) and unfortunately got the front wheels wrong by using the kit ones. Read somewhere that one of the AMT Fire Engine kits has the correct ones but cannot be sure if this info is correct.

Noel, I had read that too. It's likely the American-LaFrance Custom Pumper / Ladder Chief / Aero Chief series of models. What I found showed five-hole wheels, but the holes were D-shaped, and I could not find the wheel size (20" or 22"). Looks like they are close, but no cigar.

Rob

[robdebie]

5 hours ago, Force said:

Exactly, no front brakes wich was an opted out thing from the option list on many trucks back then and up to the late 70's and maybe early 80's...some thought it wasn't safe having front brakes and some didn't think they needed them pulling trailers and thought they would have enough brakes anyway as they were on the drivers and trailer....I belive straight trucks with no trailer had to have brakes on the front tho'.

Those wheels looks good and I would like to be able to get a set or two for my upcoming Duel build wich is in the planning stage, the only ones of this style I have found so far were for 20 inch tires and they are too small...and the ones Moluminum makes for the Tyrone Malone transporter trucks but they have a molded in Baby Moon style hubcap and doesn't look right.
The main Duel truck in the movie had miss matched wheels on all axles except for the front where this style wheel was used...different color from side to side but the same style, all wheels were split ring/lock ring style and the drive axle outside wheel were 5 hole Alcoa and the tag axle had regular 5 hole Budd on the drivers side, the passenger side outside wheels were a 5 hole Budd on the drive axle and a 5 hole Alcoa on the tag axle, the tank trailer had 6 hole D-shaped Budds on the forward axle and 5 hole Budds on the rear, the tires were also different all over and the tread depth varys from almost bald to decent.
The truck seems to have been painted light gold from the beginning and lots and lots of grease and grime was put on over the paint for the movie, the truck was in makeup as much as the other caracters in the movie.

So I'm gathering parts for the project and I have most of the stuff needed, a 50's cab from Dave Natale at AITM with needlenose grille and butterfly hood, the Page and Page rear suspension from Pavel Behensky at Strato Models, the tank trailer from Doug at Keystone before he closed up shop, some wheels from different sources, decals from Modeltruckin', and a correct looking air cleaner.
The things I'm on the hunt for now are the front wheels like these, a Cat 1673 engine and a Kenworth style torsion bar suspension wich was on the tank trailer in the movie and I can get started.

Hakan, I will make the wheels available, either as 3D parts, resin casts or the STL file. But I need to work on them a bit more, right now it's just a first 3D design.

Thanks a lot for the details of the other wheels, I haven't started work on those. Baby steps ?

Like you I'm gathering parts, but I only have the AMT Peterbilt 359 and the Lindberg Dodge L700 Tanker. Decals are promised by JBOT. As you can see, you're way ahead ?

Rob

[Force]

On 12/9/2023 at 1:41 PM, robdebie said:

Hakan, I will make the wheels available, either as 3D parts, resin casts or the STL file. But I need to work on them a bit more, right now it's just a first 3D design.

Thanks a lot for the details of the other wheels, I haven't started work on those. Baby steps ?

Like you I'm gathering parts, but I only have the AMT Peterbilt 359 and the Lindberg Dodge L700 Tanker. Decals are promised by JBOT. As you can see, you're way ahead ?

Rob

Perfect, I keep my eyes open.

Yes I see that. ?

I was thinking of using the Lindberg tank trailer but when Keystone did the 3D printed correct tank trailer I bought one of those to save some work.
The Page and Page suspension was available from Strato Models for a short time and I managed to get one of them before they were sold out...Pavel does very limited quantity when he does his things so you have to be fast to get them when they are available.
Some of the wheels I bought from Scenes Unlimited before they were sold to ST Supply and they might still be available, AITM had the 5 hole Alcoa aluminum wheels in resin and so did Keystone in real machined aluminum and I have some of those.
The cab, hood and some other small stuff was available as a kit at AITM and I was able to get one some time before Dave Natale passed.
For the starting point...well I don't know wich Peterbilt I'm going to use, both the AMT 359 kits available are wrong as they are way too new and it's not much I will use from them other than the frame itself.
The movie truck after what I have found out was supposed to have had a Cat 1673 engine but there are no such engine done in scale as far as I know, so we'll see what I'm going to do about that, try to scratch build one or modify an existing engine maybe.

Edited December 14, 2023 by Force