One of the most famous race cars nobody seems to know anything about.....

[Egilman]

Hi all, 

First off, thank you for the views and support... Second of all, it's nice to see the interest in this particular piece of history....

But time has come to re-evaluate the progress and direction this has taken... As I have mentioned I've been working with whatever images and data I could glean from the net, but in reality that can take you only so far before the lack of accurate data starts to effect the outcome and inaccuracies start creeping into the design... It has become clear to me that I've reached that point...

This is where I finally wound up...

 

Correct, (kinda) motor mounts and a properly configured engine crossmember... with a much smaller flywheel....

This came about from the very kind contribution of some very detailed images that were gifted to me from Big John, (THANK YOU JOHN !!!) the process I'm working on requires revisiting what was drawn before and adding new details and features as the info comes available... I now have sufficient info data and pics to make almost EVERY part I've designed so far better and more accurate... Unfortunately many of those parts require a complete redesign to incorporate the new details...

Some of it I got right, a lot of it is close and some of it is just plain wrong...

So given the mountain of new information and pics... It's come time to start over... Those who do a lot of scratch designing/building know this process very well...

So I'm here to announce Version 2 will be starting soon.... 

So don't change the channel, don't go surfing... 

As soon as I get my new base images indexed and loaded into SW, I'll be restarting the log...

Look at it this way, you will get to see this built right from the start, creating a frame.... It won't take long and I'll be using much of what went before, but I will be adding the details that I now know exist which I didn't when I first started this project...

Amazingly the images I now have access to show that quite a few of my guesses in how she was configured were amazingly accurate despite not having absolute proof of their configuration...

Anyway, Onwards, and I apologize for the delay which has become painfully necessary to reach the end of my stated purpose, create the most accurate model of the Marmon Wasp currently in existence...

Thank you in advance for your patience...

EG

[Egilman]

Hi all,

First iteration of more accurate parts....

Left Frame Rail, new on the left old, on the right...

Next up the front suspension bracket, it carries the forward end of the front springs and the Shock Absorber upper mount... It's what those four forward rivets are securing...

Now, Right and left rails....

 

Onwards.....

[Egilman]

Well, the Front Suspension Bracket is basically done....

And how she mounts to the frame rails...

And we have a pair..... {chuckle}

 

Onwards.....

 

[Big John]

Looking good EG, this was my take on the front spring / shock mount also from the pics we have.

[Egilman]

Thank you for those pics John, they really spell out what they looked like and how they were mounted...

I just finished off the Rear Crossmember....

And the reverse side in the frame...

Man those pics are so detailed, I can even see the correct form and mounting for the rear springs, it's a lot more involved that just a bracket bolted to the frame...

And an overall view....

Currently looking at the next cross member forward, the one at the back of the drivers seat, it carries the frame for the rear body and fuel tanks....

Onwards....

[Egilman]

Another update...

These would be the Rear Firewall Crossmember, The Brake intermediate shaft cross member and the Center Thrust Crossmember....

 

The Rear Firewall crossmember, It carries the forward end of the Fuel and oil tanks and the rear wall of the cockpit....

The Brake Intermediate Shaft Crossmember... It carries the levers and torque tubes of the brake system from the left side of the chassis to the right side to actuate the right side brakes simultaneously with the left side...

Those two crossmembers are simple angle irons welded to mount plates and riveted to the side frame rails, pretty simple...

Finally, we come to the Center Thrust Crossmember....

The Center Thrust Crossmember is the most important cross member as it transfers the push of the driveline to the frame keeping the thrust load of the rear axle & wheels off the springs... It also carries the emergency brake input shaft and the forward end shifter gate which transfers the motions of the shift lever to the shift rods leading back to the transmission... It is made of 3/16th flat steel press formed into a channel and riveted directly to the frame rails... It is the strongest of the six crossmembers making up the frame...

An overall view of the Frame where it stands today....

Next up, the rear motor mounts and crossmember....

Onwards....

 

[Egilman]

Well another update...

Full frame...

Except for a few minor details miscellaneous holes bolts & rivets, (added as I add more parts for the most part) she is complete!!!

The increased level of detail also includes a bit of narrowing, as I was adding parts on the previous version she started feeling a bit fat so I rechecked and took an inch and a half off her width... Should help with the fitting of parts in the future...

I also dropped the engine back into her....

It's the only part that hasn't been adjusted as of yet.. (although I will be adjusting the crankcase flange shortly to correct it's shape)

Anyway this is the status as of today, Happy Easter everyone...

EG

 

[Egilman]

Thanks John... Your pics really make a difference...

Currently done the rear shock mount, it went rather quickly as the original wasn't that far off... The Spring mounting bracket is another creature altogether though... Requires a complete redesign cause my original was way off...

Working on it now, next update when it's done....

[Egilman]

Update:

Rear Shock mounts and Spring brackets... (the shock mounts were easy, the spring mount was another story)

Overall view of the area...

Nothing unusual to the casual view....

Where the spring brackets live....

Different aren't they! not just bolted to the frame... but looking at their actual configuration the mechanics makes sense... And I might add a perfect application of the lever to reinforce the spring pivot point...

Out of the frame....

And of course an overall beauty shot... I know, it's only beautiful to us engineering types who like this kind of stuff,.....

That's it for today, I'm now on the road to a rolling chassis again...

Thanks for your patience with me...

EG

[Egilman]

Well another update, this one took a while to create....

Front Springs....

Eight tries at it, five complete redraws..... 2" x 35" Asymmetrical Leaf Springs.... The Axle mount centers 15" from the front pivot point leaving 20" behind the axel The leaves are 1/4" thick at the Axel Mount and taper to 1/16" at the tips and the tips are full width radiused... (my originals weren't)

And they are mostly one piece, the two shackles are separate pieces as well as the rear pivot hanger...

It wasn't easy...

Overall look...

I'm going to take a break for a few days, have some RL issues that need to be dealt with, but then after a suitable rest for the brain, I'm going to tackle the rear springs....

Onwards my friends...

[Egilman]

Thanks for the like John It's appreciated....

And I've started the Rear Springs.... First I have to create the mounting plate, it's the pivot point of the upper spring and carries the load from the Wheels & Rear Axle vertically to the frame...

Mounting Plate, A lot different than first envisioned....

Thanks to the pics John provided, much, much more accurate....

Reverse side, attached to it's mounting bracket....

And finally in place against the frame.....

Now I start to build the upper rear spring....

Onwards....

Edited April 14, 2024 by Egilman

[Kenmojr]

3D modeling masterpiece. Very impressive work...

[Egilman]

Thank you Ken... Trying to be as accurate to Race Day as possible...

[Egilman]

Well another update...

Rear Springs, I was hoping that I would be able to use the springs I had already made to build the second version... Unfortunately no That wasn't going to work so I've set about building a whole new set of Rear Springs.....

And in measuring it against the detailed photos I now have I found that I also needed to rework the Bracket as well to more accurately reflect it's true position on the car... 3/4ths inch closer to the rear and up at the turn of the curve on the frame rail...  

Then I added in the old springs and the ends sat way to low, so I was forced to completely rebuild the springs reflecting the correct measured position on the car... The curve is now accurate, 40" long by 2" wide with a 3" drop at each end... 

I've included two pics showing the current iteration colored in the cars natural yellow color....

And one of the spring itself showing the upper mainspring and first leaf...

and it's one solid piece as well....

Next posting when the spring itself is finished...

Onwards.....

 

[Egilman]

Well the upper Rear Springs are done....

And the overall...

Now to close it out by doing the lowers.....

 

Onwards....

[Egilman]

And now the bottom springs are done.....

Fun times, And before I go on to the next part, I've got to reconfigure the front springs to better match the rears....

An overall look....

Haven't decided which direction I will go next, but it will be one of the Axles....

Onwards...

[Big John]

Great progress EG!

[Egilman]

Thank you John,

Next up is the Front Axle... I've already created the Front Shock Brackets and am working up the Axle itself....

I'll probably shift over to the rear axle when the Front Wheels are done....

Thank you for all your help...

[Egilman]

Update:

Front axle...

Overall, (along with the front Shock Absorber Bracket)

Now to design the spindle tubes, leading to the Spindles themselves at which point I'll incorporate the camber, (outward lean) and toe-in, (narrowing of the front wheels at the leading edge) All improvements of the front steering engineering of the automobile...

It's good to note that in 1910 they understood proportional steering, camber and toe-in and how they effect tire wear and turning control, they were still working towards castoring front wheels... (heck most people don't understand steering geometry even today)

But they still did not understand body roll, moment of inertia, weight shift and thrust angle, nor why they were important... 1910 was a period of discovery in the auto industry and Indy was intended to be the proving grounds for auto engineering advancement...

The steering of the Marmon Wasp incorporated all they had learned..... I'll attempt to explain it as I go.... (what little I understand)

Anyways,

Onwards...

Edited April 24, 2024 by Egilman

[Big John]

Curious, did you notice that the lower shock mounts are different from side to side, including both location and their construction.  I wonder if that architecture is original to the 1911 car? Great progress, Model On!

[Egilman]

Thanks John...

Yep, I saw that...

The twin mount on the right side is the original, made from 5/16" steel... Day of race pics clearly show four shocks on the front mounted inside and outside the frame rails... The left side is a replacement to make her drivable made out of 3/8" steel.... It sits too far forward as well as being only a single mount....

Inner right side...

Inner left side...

Edited April 24, 2024 by Egilman

[Egilman]

The basic Axel is done.... (with the shock absorber brackets)

And an overall view....

Next up is the Spindles.....

Onwards...

 

[Big John]

Good eye there with the original start line pics and double shocks. Great progress.

[Egilman]

Thanks John, been working on her steady this week as time allowed... Here is the current status....

Left side...

Right Side...

Front....

Rear...

I haven't drawn the Steering Knuckles yet, but I've learned they were identical from side to side just mirrored... The steering arm was a separate part that was bolted on over the right side knuckle so it is unique to the Wasp... My previous design was of the standard steering knuckle/arm, (one part) from a standard Marmon Speedster...

 

Your pics of what is actually on the car are a godsend for getting it right...

That's what I'm figuring out now, the steering knuckles will be easy, it's the steering arm that will be a challenge...

Again thank you for your generosity....

EG...

[Egilman]

Well, time for another update....

Steering Knuckles, Center Link and Steering Arm.....

Starting with the Steering Arm.... A unique and ingenious piece of engineering

The standalone part... The Speedometer mount post is included cause it's natural to connect it to the model here... It bolts to the hex portion of the post wraps around the lower end of the spindle carrier and then wraps around the Right Steering knuckle while supporting the Steering Arm....

Showing the Steering Knuckle in place....

It was really something to draw, someone with more experience could probably do it better, but I'm calling it done....

And the complete Front Axle steering assembly...

And the complete Front Axle.... (back side)

Considerably different than the Standard Steering Arm..... (and a lot stronger)

And the usual overall shot....

Getting closer to a complete chassis....

Onwards!!!