Is There Room For Another 41 Plymouth or Two?

[LennyB]

The whole time I was trying to convert the '41 to the '39 my father gave me grief saying they are completely different cars. And yes, he was right.

 

Picked up a 3D printed '39 off eBay a while back. Stuck it up in the attic once I received it as it's going to need a lot of work. Besides being very thick the roof is flat, headlights are wrong, fenders too square, hood is concave.....

 

 

 

[NOBLNG]

13 minutes ago, LennyB said:

The whole time I was trying to convert the '41 to the '39 my father gave me grief saying they are completely different cars. And yes, he was right.

 

Picked up a 3D printed '39 off eBay a while back. Stuck it up in the attic once I received it as it's going to need a lot of work. Besides being very thick the roof is flat, headlights are wrong, fenders too square, hood is concave.....

 

 

Good morning Len. Like Jim said in his thread, it’s raw material. It will take some dedicated effort to get her looking good. Best worked on a bit at a time to avoid insanity in my mind.

[LennyB]

36 minutes ago, NOBLNG said:

Good morning Len. Like Jim said in his thread, it’s raw material. It will take some dedicated effort to get her looking good. Best worked on a bit at a time to avoid insanity in my mind.

That is why it was put up in the attic, I've already lost my mind on this '41 nose.?

[LennyB]

 Tried to do an experiment this week with the fender welting, a sort of proof of concept  Have to admit it was a bit of a failure. Looking to compare two styles of welting I took a junk body and after creating channels for the welting on each front fender I put .020 round stock on the drivers side and left the passenger empty. Shot some paint on the body and after drying attempted to run scale spark plug wire on the passenger side. The failure was in trying to attach the spark plug wire to the already painted body. The wire wants to stay straight and not conform to the fender. And needs a glue that you can wipe off any excess without harming the paint. What I finally did was use some quick setting epoxy, which is dark grey in color when it dries, to attach the wire. It's a bit tedious as you can't leave any exposed glue and you need to hold the wire in place while the glue dries. In this case I taped down the ends of the wire until the glue set. Can't really do that on the finished model as you can't wipe off any excess glue under the tape.  

On the passenger side I covered the styrene rod with black BMF. Which is also tedious in it's own right.

The spark plug wire welting actually looks better in real life then in the pics as you can't see the little bit of exposed glue, at least I can't with my old peepers. And I think the wire looks better then the black BMF. The BMF has a gloss to it while the wire is more of a mat finish.

The end result IMHO is the wire looks better but is a risky proposition on an already painted body. I don't like the sheen of the BMF. I think I may just go with the styrene rod and just mask and spray some matte black on top of it in the end.

[LennyB]

The Woody

I don't have any pics from when I started this build a few years ago but I thought I'd pull out another untouched body for comparison. I'm not going for a completely correct woody body, I think the effort spent on the nose is enough work in itself but I did want to try and make it feel the part a bit better. And besides at the time a lot of these old woodies had work done to them to repair damaged pieces and were not always 100% correct. My grandfather in fact had a 1938 Ford Woody and he completely rebuilt the tailgate because it was rotten but made it his own design, boy I wish I had that car now.

On the rear the Ford has exposed bolt heads and a bump in the dead center for a spare tire, these were removed as the Plymouth is much more plain in the backside.

 

The modified body is on the top with the original below it. Most of the work here was to the rear fender to make it in the style of the Plymouth. The fender is more rounded in general and doesn't come as far forward into the rear door but I choose to leave that alone as it would require modifying the wood as well as the fender and altering the wheel base.  The wood strips on the Plymouth are also simpler then the Ford's so they were filled in to remove the grooves. The Ford has visible hinges while the Plymouth does not. So not a perfect rendition but close enough for me.

[LennyB]

The Woody

I've been making some progress on the Woody with a lot of waiting for things to dry. I am currently using the kit wheels for mock-up. They are OK for now but not very accurate.

 

They should not be all chrome. The kit wheels look like something with a JC Whitney dress up kit. So I'm not sure if I'm going to strip the chrome off these or try something else. The kit tires are also a problem as the rims are too wide for the tires.

 

Anyhow, have the chassis and engine somewhat put together. The front axle is not staying, AMT and their metal axles.?

 

There is a lot about the engine that bothers me and while I tried to dress it up a bit I would take a different route next time. So much is not accurate, one thing being the oil filter. The kit replicates a skinny little filter which technically was correct back on day one, but those filters were sealed units and you threw the whole thing away and replaced it. They are long out of production and you might find one if you hunt long and hard at Hershey, but most people nowadays replace it with a canister with an removable element. I had some scrap bits on the bench and started piecing one together with a crankshaft and alternator pulley sandwiching a large piece of round stock and some .030" welding wire. It looked great in my hands but I feel it is too big for the engine. Anyway, I decided to leave it, still need to put a nut on the top to keep the oil in.?

But Jim, curse you for those spark plug wires. I had totally forgotten about the wire style they used back in the day. I have gotten away from that on the 1:1 '39 so it never occurred to me. I already had the distributor wired and the wire separator created all I had left to do was wait for the plug boots to dry and slip the wire into them. And then I saw your post with the wired engine. I thought, forget it, I'm not going back now, but it kept bugging me. Finally I gave in and switched the style. Being everything was already in place it made it just a bit more difficult to solder on those ends. I felt like Vincent Price creating Edward Scissorhands. ?

 

I used some straight pins to slip into the 'spark plugs' (drilled out round stock) which now replaced the boots. And on top of it I broke a drill bit off in the head drilling out the block. It will have to stay there as I don't have an extractor that small.??

 

[customline]

2 hours ago, LennyB said:

The Woody

I've been making some progress on the Woody with a lot of waiting for things to dry. I am currently using the kit wheels for mock-up. They are OK for now but not very accurate.

 

They should not be all chrome. The kit wheels look like something with a JC Whitney dress up kit. So I'm not sure if I'm going to strip the chrome off these or try something else. The kit tires are also a problem as the rims are too wide for the tires.

 

Anyhow, have the chassis and engine somewhat put together. The front axle is not staying, AMT and their metal axles.?

 

There is a lot about the engine that bothers me and while I tried to dress it up a bit I would take a different route next time. So much is not accurate, one thing being the oil filter. The kit replicates a skinny little filter which technically was correct back on day one, but those filters were sealed units and you threw the whole thing away and replaced it. They are long out of production and you might find one if you hunt long and hard at Hershey, but most people nowadays replace it with a canister with an removable element. I had some scrap bits on the bench and started piecing one together with a crankshaft and alternator pulley sandwiching a large piece of round stock and some .030" welding wire. It looked great in my hands but I feel it is too big for the engine. Anyway, I decided to leave it, still need to put a nut on the top to keep the oil in.?

But Jim, curse you for those spark plug wires. I had totally forgotten about the wire style they used back in the day. I have gotten away from that on the 1:1 '39 so it never occurred to me. I already had the distributor wired and the wire separator created all I had left to do was wait for the plug boots to dry and slip the wire into them. And then I saw your post with the wired engine. I thought, forget it, I'm not going back now, but it kept bugging me. Finally I gave in and switched the style. Being everything was already in place it made it just a bit more difficult to solder on those ends. I felt like Vincent Price creating Edward Scissorhands. ?

 

I used some straight pins to slip into the 'spark plugs' (drilled out round stock) which now replaced the boots. And on top of it I broke a drill bit off in the head drilling out the block. It will have to stay there as I don't have an extractor that small.??

 

I love a good story like this, Len. It's totally relatable. I'd love to tell y'all about what I did to the tip of my right index finger with a hacksaw yesterday but it may bring up bad memories for too many of us.  Needless to say, I won't be doing much detail work for a few(?) days ?.

Sorry about the wire thing. I didn't mean to cause trouble for anyone. ?

 

Yup. Doing a special project for Wifey. Long story.

 

[LennyB]

14 minutes ago, customline said:

I love a good story like this, Len. It's totally relatable. I'd love to tell y'all about what I did to the tip of my right index finger with a hacksaw yesterday but it may bring up bad memories for too many of us.  Needless to say, I won't be doing much detail work for a few(?) days ?.

Sorry about the wire thing. I didn't mean to cause trouble for anyone. ?

 

Yup. Doing a special project for Wifey. Long story.

 

Ouch, 'nuf said

[NOBLNG]

1 hour ago, customline said:

I love a good story like this, Len. It's totally relatable. I'd love to tell y'all about what I did to the tip of my right index finger with a hacksaw yesterday but it may bring up bad memories for too many of us.  Needless to say, I won't be doing much detail work for a few(?) days ?.

Sorry about the wire thing. I didn't mean to cause trouble for anyone. ?

 

Yup. Doing a special project for Wifey. Long story.

 

Sorry I suggested a hacksaw.?

[customline]

1 hour ago, NOBLNG said:

Sorry I suggested a hacksaw.?

It wasn't that hacksaw, Greg, you're off the hook. The Old Lady had a project for me. It involved metal. Jagged aluminum to be specific; the last stroke with the saw when it finally cuts through. The index finger on my right hand, on my saw handle,  got in the way and it slammed against the fresh cut on the left. No, the mini-hacksaw was not the culprit. Not this time. That would have been jagged copper tubing.  Nope, no guilt. 

Edit: Please excuse the foul language I omitted ?

Edited February 20, 2024 by customline

[LennyB]

The Woody

Making slow progress on the Woody and ran into a minor issue which  I thought was worth pointing out. I installed the inner fenders and test fit the body. Placement of those pieces is rather vague and I found that the drivers side sat  taller then the passenger and raised the body up off the chassis. Needed to shave just that one side a bit which left a dusting of snow all over everything.  Unfortunately they were already painted and I will need to do some touch up after I clean up the snow.

 

I think part of my issue might be the strips I added to help center the hood. But it would then mean there will be a gap at the top of the passenger side inner fender. Just putting it out there as something you guys might want to check.

 

Haven't mocked up the coupe yet as I still need to find an engine.

 

[NOBLNG]

Thanks for the heads up Len. Would it maybe be better to glue the inner fenders to the body instead of the frame like they are on most kits?

[LennyB]

24 minutes ago, NOBLNG said:

Thanks for the heads up Len. Would it maybe be better to glue the inner fenders to the body instead of the frame like they are on most kits?

Greg, if the firewall also attached to the inner fenders that would probably be the way to go. But the only stability these two inner fenders have is the radiator up front. It's really a poor design.

[LennyB]

Coupe

After having the issue with the inner fenders on the Woody I wanted to see what the story was with the Coupe. I also needed to figure out their placement as I wanted to start on the engine. I has pulled four engines out of the parts bin, two hemis, and needed to see if if one of them fit.

I took a different approach to fitting the inner fenders then I did with the Woody as I glued the radiator in place first this time and just held the inner fenders in place with some tape so I could make any needed modification and still remove them to paint.

 

My results this time were different then with the Woody. Both inners sat at the same height but they were both too tall. Just as you had with yours Jim, the nose of the body sat too high. I had eliminated the front bumper brackets on the coupe and filled the cutouts but you can clearly see the stubs sitting below the front of the body.

 

Did some trimming of the top of the inner fenders. Then they will go off to paint.

And now the bumper brackets are tucked away where they belong.

I can't say if the inconsistencies differ with the age of the kit. I have some older and some newer bits and have problems with both.  So like a lot of other aspects of this kit you have to adjust and check everything.

 

And if you were wondering about that engine. Three of the four engines I picked didn't fit and the fourth one the dog got a hold of, so that's not going to run ever again. And it was a Johan, and I don't mean Bach. So it looks like I have to go with the original kit engine. They made it small because it's all we have room for. I am going to try and salvage this glue bomb and see if it turns over. Gave it a bath in Easy-Off and it's looking better already.

Are you trying to tell me that thing on the bottom is an oil filter? Gotta love where they put the exhaust ports. Or did the last builder put the heads on upside down.

 

 

Think I need to start a different project??

 

 

[NOBLNG]

11 hours ago, LennyB said:

Are you trying to tell me that thing on the bottom is an oil filter? Gotta love where they put the exhaust ports. Or did the last builder put the heads on upside down.

 

 

Think I need to start a different project??

 

 

I guess that is supposed to be the “micronic full flow oil filter”. That is how the heads are mounted according to the instructions…and I’ve started a ‘49 Merc, and a ‘66 El Camino since starting this one…gotta keep my sanity.???

[LennyB]

22 minutes ago, NOBLNG said:

I guess that is supposed to be the “micronic full flow oil filter”. That is how the heads are mounted according to the instructions…and I’ve started a ‘49 Merc, and a ‘66 El Camino since starting this one…gotta keep my sanity.???

Thanks for confirming that Greg. I don't want to use those kit headers but I might also see about doing a head swap as these look ridiculous with the exhaust ports above the spark plugs.

[NOBLNG]

45 minutes ago, LennyB said:

Thanks for confirming that Greg. I don't want to use those kit headers but I might also see about doing a head swap as these look ridiculous with the exhaust ports above the spark plugs.

Yeah, that’s why I stuck with the six-banger.?

[LennyB]

I'm sure I'm breaking some rules here but I just can't live with the boxed engine. Chrysler had some small Hemi's, the smallest being the Dodge 221 Red Ram,  so why not build one, or a semblance of one at least.

Went to remove the heads from this engine and discovered they were molded on so I hacked them off. Leaving a big gaping hole.

 

 

Transplanted the Hemi heads and between them the original intake and already it looks a whole lot better.

 

Had some nice valve covers in the parts bin. And lo and behold it might pass for a Hemi.

 

 

This is what were going for, at least according to the valve covers. ?

.

[customline]

An old hemi is always a good choice. Good call, Len ?!

[NOBLNG]

Yeah, good upgrade on that engine Len!?

[LennyB]

The Coupe

It's been a week of slow progress because everything wanted to put up a fight.

 

Working on the engine and I wanted to highlight the writing on the valve covers. Easier said then done. Painted them gold and then tried to hand painting the lettering. That just wasn't working. Stripped the paint and then reverse engineered it. Painted the black first and the gold over it then carefully sanded off the gold to reveal the lettering. It worked but the letters don't stand out as well as I would like. And the gold has this weird look to it. But the factory say's it's got to be gold. Hope it's not as noticeable in the engine bay.

 

 

Next objective was to get some interior work done. Modified the bucket seats I pulled out of the neighbors trash, nice vintage 60's vibe.

 

Then did some work on the rears. Sanded off the detail on the seats and added some styrene strips to match the pleats on the front. Can't make up my mind as to how many pleats I should go with. Right now I did two sets and shot it with some paint to see how it looks. Three hours later the paint is still not dry. I ordered a dehydrator earlier in the week. Opened it up this morning and it was DOA. That's what you get for shopping Amazon warehouse.

 

Made up some door hardware next. As I will need hardware for the Woody also I decided to make a mould. The silicone rubber I had is many years old and of course it isn't co-operating. After 24 hours it is still sticky.

I still manged to make some handles. You'll notice the door handles curve downwards. The handles on these cars are different from side to side, window cranks are the same. I studied a lot of door handles restoring the real 1939 Plymouth. Took a lot of searching to get a proper set. Handles that came with the car when I bought it were an odd pewter tone. Turned out they were aftermarket handles. Cast handles that were just sprayed with clear. War was on at the time and corners needed to be cut. Factory handles were chromed. But it's really tough to find in nice, not pitted condition. Walked many miles thru Hershey searching.

  For small items like this I just use Bondic to cast the pieces. Don't know how any of you feel about this stuff but as far as being a great glue, it sucks. Works good for casting small parts as it sticks well to itself.

 

That's all for now folks...

 

 

Edited March 3, 2024 by LennyB

[LennyB]

The Woody

Progress on the Woody has been even slower then the coupe. Spent most of the time trying to come up with a better wheel.

 

As I don't care for what comes in the box.

I decided to cast a hubcap from the kit wheel and simply pressed the wheel into some clay.

 

Then I sanded down the edges to get it to size. I left some clay on it so you can see the detail.

 

In my parts box I found this. Can anyone identify the kit it comes from? I dug up two more sets from the attic, the 40 Fords will never miss them.

 

And this is what we have. I'm waiting on some fresh moulding material, which was supposed to be here by now. It's 10PM, do you know where your order is? So I can properly cast some hubcaps.

 

Anyway, that's it for now.

 

[alan barton]

Hi Lenny, I am late to the 41 Plymouth party that is taking over this forum but I only just saw your post now and have enjoyed it immensely. Yes, these old Mayflowers are a challenge and I cheated like crazy by building a custom for my first effort but it worked for me.  In my build post you will see I used a split bench seat from the AMT 53 Studebaker - it took some filing to fit in the narrow interior but looks great in the car.  And those wheels and dress rings are definitely from the AMT 40 Ford Coupe, sedan or Delivery kits - and the sedan has just been announced by AMT as a forthcoming release..

While my custom coupe is completed to my satisfaction, I have a planned convertible, a delivery and a woody on the bench so I am not done yet. With five threads now on here for the 41 Plymouth, I will be using every bit of the information that you and the other guys have used to improve the nose.

My woody is going to be based on the AMT 41 Ford kit so I was interested to see how you grafted the Plymouth sheet metal to the 48 body.  Was there any particular reason why you didn't graft the Plymouth rear fenders to the woody body?  In hindsight, would you do it that way next time or would you still fabricate the plymouth details on the Ford fender?

Cheers

Alan

[LennyB]

9 hours ago, alan barton said:

Hi Lenny, I am late to the 41 Plymouth party that is taking over this forum but I only just saw your post now and have enjoyed it immensely. Yes, these old Mayflowers are a challenge and I cheated like crazy by building a custom for my first effort but it worked for me.  In my build post you will see I used a split bench seat from the AMT 53 Studebaker - it took some filing to fit in the narrow interior but looks great in the car.  And those wheels and dress rings are definitely from the AMT 40 Ford Coupe, sedan or Delivery kits - and the sedan has just been announced by AMT as a forthcoming release..

While my custom coupe is completed to my satisfaction, I have a planned convertible, a delivery and a woody on the bench so I am not done yet. With five threads now on here for the 41 Plymouth, I will be using every bit of the information that you and the other guys have used to improve the nose.

My woody is going to be based on the AMT 41 Ford kit so I was interested to see how you grafted the Plymouth sheet metal to the 48 body.  Was there any particular reason why you didn't graft the Plymouth rear fenders to the woody body?  In hindsight, would you do it that way next time or would you still fabricate the plymouth details on the Ford fender?

Cheers

Alan

Alan, welcome to the party?. Yes, I was watching your build. Yes, 40 Ford sedan delivery is correct. I have a bunch in the attic and swiped a couple of sets.

As for the Woody when I stated the project I wasn't looking to do an accurate representation, it was more a proof of concept build, and I worked with the parts I had on hand.  On my bucket list of 1:1 builds is a woody. As real ones are terribly expensive I was planning to take a four-door sedan and build the whole back half from scratch. Probably with a metal under-stucture and the wood on top as it would make for a better driver.  The reason I kept the original fenders on the kit is so as not to change the outline of the wood panels. This way I can still use the kit decals for them. If I was to build an honest to God replica I would build the whole back half from scratch, possibly with wood, as there are too many differences between the Ford and the Plymouth. I even think the wheelbase may be longer as Woodies were commonly built on truck chassis, not sure if that's the case for the 41.

Anyway, good luck with your build, I may steel some ideas as I do have a 41 builder missing half the front nose.?

 

[LennyB]

The Coupe

The love/hate relationship with this kit goes on. It's been a week long battle trying to get this interior to follow directions. Full dis-closer however can't blame AMT for it this time. It was more a battle of the paint. I wanted to lay down a satin black to start with the base. Had a can of Rustoleum Satin Black which decided it wanted to go high gloss. Maybe I didn't shake it enough, maybe it was the weather. Anyway, switched over to a can of flat black and then top coated the black with some vintage Testors Dulcote Lacquer. Then some Testors light interior gray to accent the black. Then some red flocking for carpet, which you can't really see and will see even less when the car is put together. But I'll know it's there.

Wanted to paint the dash, steering wheel and side window trim (yes, I know it looks like it's the top of the door panel but it's actually the side window surround) body color. On the real car they have wood grain on closed vehicles and convertibles have this painted body color. As this is not a stock build I'm going body color. For this I airbrushed some Createx Wicked Crimson. I never used this before so I test sprayed it on a spare hood and the hood rejected it. Meanwhile it sprayed fine on a plastic spoon. Go figure. Took a chance and sprayed the interior, dash was fine, steering wheel fine, but it fish-eyed on top of the Testors grey. I was able to sand and respray so I didn't have to start from scratch, but then some color bled thru onto the grey. Went back and touched that up but accidentally grabbed Lt Ghost Grey and wondered why it didn't match. Just not my week for painting. At that point I was tired of fighting so I left it. Mixed up some Ivory paint to do the dash and window crank knobs, turned out a bit more yellow then it should but that's just par for the course.

 

Last thing I did is I applied the dash cluster and radio controls I picked up on eBay. I thought I was buying decals, but turned out it was just glossy paper that you have to cut out and white glue in place. Does the job and doesn't look bad, but it is a bit thick in this case.

 

 

Anyway, I'm done for now. Cheers...?