Jantrix Posted April 10, 2009 Share Posted April 10, 2009 Normally I like to build models as mechanically plausible as I can (WW3's and Deathracers aside). If something doesnt fit, well by golly I work on it until it fits and to the best of my knowledge and skills, it is mechanically sound. If you got in, turned the key, it should run and drive true. Last night I broke my rule. I'm building a traditional rod, a Monogram 1940 Ford Pick-up and I wanted the Ford 312 in the car. Nope wasn't gonna fit. The front suspension crossmember kept the engine on an angle with the oil pan laying right on it. Once again the realistic side and artistic side of my modeling brain went to war. I listened to the realistic side on my Deathracer and regretted it, so the artistic side won out. I cut the first four scale inches of the oil pan off and set the block right on the crossmember. Engine is nice and level now, fits perfecto. You really have to look at it hard thought to see what I did. I wanted a simple build, without sweating all the details. Although my realistic side keeps groaning about it, I can't find it in me to be disappointed. What about you guys, what side of this modeling fence are you on? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rick Schmidt Posted April 11, 2009 Share Posted April 11, 2009 I see nothing wrong there. I'll do similar things to acheive the look I want too Right now I'm working on a Revell 90 Grand Prix. And as we know those old kits ( and some new ones ) are bad about riding too high. Great if I wanted to put Larged diameter rims under it ( was Revell looking into the future ? ) I just snipped a bit off the top of the suspension on the rear and cut the A Arms on the front off and moved them inboard and up on the subframe. Not very realistic obviously but acheives the look I want. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Don Banes Posted April 11, 2009 Share Posted April 11, 2009 Well, since these things we build don't actually run, I don't see any problems "cutting a few corners". I used to be a stickler for accurate detailing, but nowadays, as long as it "looks convincing".. thats all that matters. However, I've never been one who has indulged in cutting the tops off tires and gluing them to the inner fenders just to drop it in the weeds........ I'll drop a car as low as possible, but WITHOUT decapitating any tires.....I mean you have to draw the line somewhere, right?........Can you imagine trying to drive down the road with half a tire!!!!!!......LOL. Actually the '55 to '57 T-Bird motor oil pans have a rear facing oil sump, while the passenger car oil pans have an oil sump up front. You did good, and we don't care anyway. We just want to see what you've built! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
randx0 Posted April 11, 2009 Share Posted April 11, 2009 I try to think of it as being feasible but I don't worry about the insides of stuff like the engine or tranmission if it is a trad rod who cares if you have a chevy trans hooked up to a hemi the scale guy who built it figured a way to make it work and he is way way smarter than me. but yeah I like to keep it real . which is why I never finish anything because I can't afford to have all those cars painted . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
84vanagon Posted April 11, 2009 Share Posted April 11, 2009 Hi Rob. The front mounted sump on many Fords has confounded many 1/1 swaps over the the years. I have many "little books" where the pan was cut slightly down from the flange and re-welded backwards. The oil pick-up tube was then lengthened to the rear of the pan. Your side sump is somewhat unusual , but in the 56 years that the Y block has been around, who's to say it hasn't ever been tried! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Custom Hearse Posted April 11, 2009 Share Posted April 11, 2009 When i read your post, the first thing I thought about was the rodders of the '50s. I remember seeing pictures of one guy who took a small sledge hammer and beat the tar out of his oil pan so it would clear the tie rod. What you did was akin to that. There are always drawbacks to building a car, and adding things (bigger engines, top chopping, lowering the body, etc. etc.), that will cause another thing that has to be altered to get it to work. You do what you can to achieve the results you want, nothing more.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
84vanagon Posted April 11, 2009 Share Posted April 11, 2009 Hi Rob. The front mounted sump on many Fords has confounded many 1/1 swaps over the the years. I have many "little books" where the pan was cut slightly down from the flange and re-welded backwards. The oil pick-up tube was then lengthened to the rear of the pan. Your side sump is somewhat unusual , but in the 56 years that the Y block has been around, who's to say it hasn't ever been tried! I just re-read your post. Just keep a sharp eye on the oil level! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Custom Hearse Posted April 11, 2009 Share Posted April 11, 2009 I just re-read your post. Just keep a sharp eye on the oil level! :lol: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FujimiLover Posted April 11, 2009 Share Posted April 11, 2009 I'm so artistic and visual, that in my head it's already perfect. My problem is, getting it from my head, down the arms to the hands, to the fingers, and to the parts that I'm working on. I find it very difficult to apply several light coats of paint as I tend to get excited to see it finished, then I screw up. Case in point my blue Koenig Competition. I spent all that effort on the prep work, primer, and masking, and I rushed the paint and goofed up. So for me, the artistic side takes over cause it already sees the work done when in reality, I haven't even started! LOL! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zoom Zoom Posted April 11, 2009 Share Posted April 11, 2009 I build models for the visual design aspect; much of the time I could care less if it's "accurate" underneath. As long as it looks good, sits good, and has that certain "something", I have no problem "cheating" to get the look I'm after. I'm perfectly happy with a great, simple curbside. I build my models to look good all closed up. While I love doing bodywork and custom designs or the very occasional "beater", I'm not interested in building super-detailed replicas or "World of Wheels" kinds of displays with everything open and easy access to all the little mechanical aspects. Not that there's anything wrong with that In fact I love seeing other people build them so we can all enjoy seeing the fruits of their labor. I enjoy seeing all facets of model detailing from various builders. I build for me, they build for them, we all have our own particular "styles" and we're all happy. Well...most of us, at least Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jantrix Posted April 11, 2009 Author Share Posted April 11, 2009 Actually the '55 to '57 T-Bird motor oil pans have a rear facing oil sump, while the passenger car oil pans have an oil sump up front. You did good, and we don't care anyway. We just want to see what you've built! Yep this one did indeed have the rear facing sump however the engine would still not fit between the firewall and the crossmember like the little kit flathead did. I would have had to set the engine back, cut into the firewall, rebuild the whatchamacallit, yada yada yada. I wanted a simple build. Cutting the oil pan was simple. I also trimmed up the timing chain cover/water pump as well as the fan belt pulleys so that it would all fit with a fan, in between the engine and radiator. And somehow it manages NOT to look crowded. Color me happy . Pics soon! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blue coyote Posted April 11, 2009 Share Posted April 11, 2009 Is it cheating to drop a 1:25 scale Mustang II body onto a 1:32 scale monster truck, then trim the chassis to slip a 1970 429 into place, and call it "close enough? On your oilpan issue, I think I'd have chopped the crossmember and swapped in a Mustang II front suspension like all the traditional rodders do (search "Mustang II suspension" on Egay and see all the applications they kit the things for in 1:1), or else scratch build a tubular x-member to clear, using sections of old sprue (like the performance foxbody Mustang guys do) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott H. Posted April 11, 2009 Share Posted April 11, 2009 Rob, It depends on the model I'm building as to how I build it. If it's a contest build or one I'm going to be giving away, then I'm a stickler for details. If it's something I'm building for myself or just for fun, then all's fair in love and war! Here's a case in point: I'm slowly working on a truck to sit outside of my convenience store diorama. The driver figure I plan to put in the cab is just too tall to fit in the seat. I cut the legs off just below the knees and took about 2/3 of the undersides of the legs / butt off to to get it fitting almost where I want it to be. It no longer even comes close to looking like a real figure in there, but it's mostly hidden and if someone at a show decides to take notice of it I'll gladly congratulate them on finding it. The way I see it is if you build ALL your models like you're going for the class win, you're going to burn yourself out and not have fun in the hobby any more! Sometimes you have to just step back, take a break, and have fun no matter what you're doing. Hope this answers your question, -Scott H. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jantrix Posted April 11, 2009 Author Share Posted April 11, 2009 (edited) On your oilpan issue, I think I'd have chopped the crossmember and swapped in a Mustang II front suspension like all the traditional rodders do (search "Mustang II suspension" on Egay and see all the applications they kit the things for in 1:1), or else scratch build a tubular x-member to clear, using sections of old sprue (like the performance foxbody Mustang guys do) It's going to be a period early 60's rod. Wide whites on steelies, lowered suspension, 312 Y-block, primer grey. I'm going to fab some surf boards and a rack for them. Very Jan and Dean. Thanks Scott. I agree completely. I look forward to seeing your dio. Edited April 11, 2009 by Jantrix Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steven Zimmerman Posted April 11, 2009 Share Posted April 11, 2009 I would have notched,moved,or lowered the crossmember,but that's just me....the'Z'man... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
old-hermit Posted April 11, 2009 Share Posted April 11, 2009 What about you guys, what side of this modeling fence are you on? Count rivets, don't count rivets, count rivets, don't count rivets, hmmmmm, left brain, right brain, your brain on drugs. It's called artistic license. Build it the way YOU like it and enjoy. Is it cheating to drop a 1:25 scale Mustang II body onto a 1:32 scale monster truck, then trim the chassis to slip a 1970 429 into place, and call it "close enough? How bout a 1/25 Jeep on a 1/32 monster truck with a blown Buick nailhead ?????????? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PatRedmond Posted April 11, 2009 Share Posted April 11, 2009 I'm a cheater. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Davkin Posted April 11, 2009 Share Posted April 11, 2009 This is an issue I often struggle with. When it comes down to it, the model companies are the biggers cheaters of all! Being a mechanical designer for a living I feel like fixing every design flaw in the kit, which means I'd end up scratch building 90% of the thing anyway! I just never seem to be able to do a quick and simple build unless I do it curbside. I'm currently building the Revell '58 Impala and man is that thing chuck full of over-simplification! I made the mistake of trying to fix the front suspension, that alone set me back over a week of building time so I'm doing my best to ignore the other issues and just focus on the quality of the finish. It's a struggle but I'm getting through it. David Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LUKE'57 Posted April 11, 2009 Share Posted April 11, 2009 (edited) You may be forgiven for violating the rules, simply because there are not rules. I'm guessing that you are fairly young, although with my rapidly advancing years that is a very swiftly sliding scale these day, and have not seen all the things that were done in Hot Rodding's "Dark Ages" when it was just beginning. If you had it wouldn't have worried you so about the oil pan. In the time before all the prefabbed custom parts that are availible today the hot rodder used what ever he could find with a very large dash of imagination to bring his creation to life. I've said all that to say this- I once saw the same problem you had solved back in the day by cutting a round hole in each side of the oil pan and a piece of tubing inserted into it and welded on each side. After the engine was in place the hot rodder simply threaded the tie rod through the hole and bolted it up, Problem solved! Ford Motor Company did the same thing for the pushrods on their "Tunnel Port" engines, that's where the nave came from. Edited April 11, 2009 by LUKE'57 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
walt francis Posted April 11, 2009 Share Posted April 11, 2009 And that is why we don't get anything built, because we try to hard and just walk away. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dingo Posted April 12, 2009 Share Posted April 12, 2009 Another thing U could've done was dry sump it, it a thng dne a lot in motor racing to get the motor to sit lower in the bay and it works well with the oil reserviour sitting either in the cabin or the boot area. wot U've done works good as well good on ya. Dingo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jantrix Posted April 12, 2009 Author Share Posted April 12, 2009 (edited) You may be forgiven for violating the rules, simply because there are not rules. I'm guessing that you are fairly young, although with my rapidly advancing years that is a very swiftly sliding scale these day, and have not seen all the things that were done in Hot Rodding's "Dark Ages" when it was just beginning. Well I'm 40 years young. As for not seeing the things done in hot rodding, you'de be right. Much to my disappointment I didn't grow up in an automotive household. No auto shop in the schools either. What I know of cars I've either learned helping friends or with my trusty Haynes/Chilton guides, busting my knuckles on my own 1:1. But I did grow up with a love of the American automobile, even if I can't tell you what 10 to 1 compression means. Even as an adult, the needs of the family, job, home, service, money have always been the wall between me doing and learning on a 1:1. But I do have my models, and that'll do. Edited April 12, 2009 by Jantrix Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LUKE'57 Posted April 12, 2009 Share Posted April 12, 2009 I was blessed to grow up around mechanics, both Highway Patrol ones and the marvelously creative ones that built the '50's and '60's dirt track racers that mixed and matched factory pieces between manufacturers like mechanical Dr. Frankensteins to come up with cars that would stand the strain before the Howes and McLaughlins came along. And I can tell you what 10-1 compression means in today's low quality and low octane pump gas definitions. It means instant spark knock. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Randytheroadrunner Posted April 12, 2009 Share Posted April 12, 2009 Hey Doolan, you forgot to mention all the model kits that came with the metal axle through the oilpan when we were kids building kits, eh? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
E St. Kruiser50 Posted April 12, 2009 Share Posted April 12, 2009 I love all these different responses . To me there are the "Regular Cheaters", and then there are the "Obnoxiously Blatant Cheaters" No body lines at all, on either one - basically "Jelly Bean" cars . You decide on these two Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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