MPC Super Charger - 1974 Charger rundown

[CapSat 6]

2 hours ago, pack rat said:

This thread takes me back to when I first started doing some work for Round2.  

At the time I (repeatedly) suggested that a '73/'74 Rallye based on the Super Charger would make a cool reissue idea....however I didn't know then (or now) how do-able it is.  I was told at one point that they had the Super Charger tool and were considering running some plastic through it to see what they had.  This was quite a long time ago and I don't know what transpired after that.

Some pics of a wagon I did using a Super Charger beater and some spare annual bits. 

 

That's a beauty! You really nailed the little custom touches with that one. Yes- we need this kit

[Mark C.]

Great thread!

It feels like I’ve been advocating for a reissue of this subject forever, so I’m glad that someone put forth the effort to report on it in such detail!

Without knowing anything about processes, business cases, project priorities or market projections, I will say that my best case for this would be a cloned and improved version, as Round 2 have already shown us that they can do, but I would personally be fine with a straight reissue of the Super Charger with clear glass.

Thanks for putting this together!

[Luc Janssens]

Maybe by scanning an anual of both the 74ish Charger as well as a 71-72 Roadrunner, a tool can be designed which can eject both.

 

Edited Wednesday at 07:38 PM by Luc Janssens
Forgot an "a"

[CapSat 6]

1 hour ago, Mark C. said:

Great thread!

It feels like I’ve been advocating for a reissue of this subject forever, so I’m glad that someone put forth the effort to report on it in such detail!

Without knowing anything about processes, business cases, project priorities or market projections, I will say that my best case for this would be a cloned and improved version, as Round 2 have already shown us that they can do, but I would personally be fine with a straight reissue of the Super Charger with clear glass.

Thanks for putting this together!

Thank you Mark! I’m glad you are enjoying this. I certainly am! 

[tim boyd]

OK if you guys really want to get in the weeds on this....

1) The MPC '72 Charger Promo included a sheet with decals for both the Charger and Challenger Promos.  And what did the decals show?  How about 1972 "R/T" decals, not the actual "Rallye" graphics that came out on the real car.  Thus presumably proving my long-held belief that the change from R/T to generic ho-hum "Rallye" series nomenclature for '72 was not only misguided (my view since the day they came out) but also a very last minute one.  

2) The original 1/1 scale plan for the '71 Charger included several additional side graphics treatments that never made final production.  These were shown in several of the car magazines in their "intro" articles for the 1971 automotive model year.  One of those options also included a never-released stand-alone rear spoiler that was very reminiscent of the GTO Judge approach for 1969.  Guess what, guys.....find an original, unmolested 1971 Charger annual kit and you will find that exact spoiler in the kit parts! 

(I did an article on "might have been muscle cars" showing model kits that featured last minute cancellations of 1/1 scale muscle cars, including both of the above IIRC, and others such as the never-released Boss 429s in the 1970 AMT Torino and MPC Cyclone kits, the cancelled 1975 GTO in the MPC 1975 Ventura kit, and several others.  I wrote it for Hemmings Muscle Machines but they showed no interest, so it finally appeared (in slightly revised form) in an issue of Scale Auto back in the day.)

Makes me want to revisit a kitbashing idea i've had for many years...a 1/25th scale 1972 Charger using the original 1972 "R/T" promo decals and a recreation of the planned but never released semi-hemi 400/440 engine block/heads program that was planned to replace both the B/RB and Hemi engines and was thought to be on track for the 1972 model year.  What a cool model that would be????

TB

Edited Wednesday at 07:16 PM by tim boyd

[CapSat 6]

15 minutes ago, Luc Janssens said:

Maybe by scanning an anual of both the 74ish Charger as well as a 71-72 Roadrunner tool can be designed which can eject both.

 

That could definitely be a way to go. The original MPC ‘71-‘74 Road Runners used a different chassis tool, but the 1:1 cars would have used the same stuff. 

That approach would solve many problems: the wire front axle of the Charger, the poor appearance and molded in exhaust of the chassis in the Road Runner, and also, multiple bodies and interiors could be developed- for instance- ‘72 Charger Rallye, ‘74 Charger SE and Rallye, ‘71 Road Runner & GTX, ‘72 Road Runner…all using the same basic tool. 

EDIT: Satellites used a 115” wheelbase those years, which Chargers used a 117” wb. This probably would not a huge problem if the kits were developed at the same time. 

Edited Wednesday at 07:24 PM by CapSat 6

[CapSat 6]

2 minutes ago, tim boyd said:

OK if you guys really want to get in the weeds on this...s.

1) The '72 Charger Promo included a sheet with decals for both the Charger and Challenger Promos.  And what did the decals show?  How about 1972 "R/T" decals, not the actualy "Rallye" graphics that came out on the real car.  Thus proving my long-held belief that the change from R/T to generic ho-hum "Rallye" series nomenclature for '72 was not only misguided (my view since the day they came out) but also a very last minute one.  

2) The original 1/1 scale plan for the '71 Charger included several additional side graphics treatments that never made final production.  These were shown in several of the car magazines in thier "intro" articles for the 1971 automotive model year.  One of those options also included a never-released stand-alone rear spoiler that was very reminiscent of the GTO Judge approach for 1969.  Guess what, guys.....find an original, unmolested 1971 Charger annual kit and you will find that exact spoiler in the kit parts! 

(I did an article on "might have been muscle cars" showing model kits that featured last minute cancellations of 1/1 scale muscle cars, including both of the above IIRC, and others such as the never-released Boss 429s in the 1970 AMT Tornino and MPC Cyclone kits, the cancelled 1975 GTO in the MPC 1975 Ventura kit, and several others.  I wrote it for Hemmings Muscle Machines but they showed no interest, so it finally appeared (in slightly revised form) in an issue of Scale Auto back in the day.)

Makes me want to revisit a kitbashing idea i've had for many years...a 1/25th scale 1972 Charger using the original 1972 "R/T" promo decals and a recreation of the planned but never released semi-hemi 400/440 engine block/heads program that was planned to replace both the B/RB and Hemi engines and was thought to be on track for the 1972 model year.  What a cool model that would be????

TB

Nice! You could start with the AMT ‘71 Charger…side marker turn signals from Few Sprues Loose on eBay…I have been wondering how to do a Ball Stud engine for a long time though…maybe one of the 3D guys will do one eventually. 

If you ever need one of those “proposed for ‘71” spoilers for the project, hit me up- I have a few of those. They came in the ‘71 and ‘72 annuals, as well as the Hawaiian Funny car. I always thought that spoiler was a missed opportunity. 

[tim boyd]

2 minutes ago, CapSat 6 said:

Nice! You could start with the AMT ‘71 Charger…side marker turn signals from Few Sprues Loose on eBay…I have been wondering how to do a Ball Stud engine for a long time though…maybe one of the 3D guys will do one eventually. 

If you ever need one of those “proposed for ‘71” spoilers for the project, hit me up- I have a few of those. They came in the ‘71 and ‘72 annuals, as well as the Hawaiian Funny car. I always thought that spoiler was a missed opportunity. 

Thanks Bill...I did not know it repeated in the '72 and Hawaiian kits....cool!   Also did not know Few Sprues did the '72 market lights.  His stuff is really sharp IMHO.  TB

****** 

BTW for the rest of you, I recall that the never-released '71 Charger R/T and Super Bee graphics treatments and spoiler were shown in a late summer/early fall 1970 issue of Car Craft.  The same images also appeared on one of the East Coast" "new for '71" one-off newsstand specials about the same time...TB 

[tim boyd]

Still more on this...in the spring of 1973 my Dad bought a new Coronet Crestwood wagon (the one with the wood decals) from Pointe Dodge on Mack Avenue in Detroit/Gross Pointe Michigan.  It was a dealer demo and was loaded with some pretty unique stuff....400 Magnum with duals, Tuff steering wheel, dealer-applied red upper body pinstripes, and most surprisingly, the not-for B-Body dark blue midnight metallic that was a C-body color only that year.  When he picked up the car, there was also a 1973 Charger SE on the lot painted the same color, with the optional white halo vinyl roof, which was a little-known '73 SE option for those like me who thought the standard three-window "louver" SE roof was beyond goofy, red pinstripes, 15x7 Rallyes and RWL Polyglas rubber, and a white with black console interior.  It was back then, and ever since, the coolest 1973 Charger I have ever seen.  Over the years (decades) I've been collecting parts to recreate that one in scale.  If they ever rebooted the SuperCharger with the wheel wheels corrected, that might be the ticket to get underway. 

As for that non-production color.  I never learned the real story, other than that the dealer principle, Ken Meade, was very closely connected to Chrysler leadership at Mother Mopar and probably could get strings pulled, as by 1971 non-production coloros were pretty much a thing of the past for most OEMs.  However, in the last few years, Mopar Collectors Guide ran an article on at least one more '71 B-Body that was factory painted in the same C-Body midnight blue metallic, so this may have been some type of factory sales staff spring promotion to get more dealer orders, although I have never seen any factory documentation to support that.   TB l

[Luc Janssens]

32 minutes ago, CapSat 6 said:

EDIT: Satellites used a 115” wheelbase those years, which Chargers used a 117” wb. This probably would not a huge problem if the kits were developed at the same time. 

That would be 2mm in 1/25th scale. Elongating the rear inner wheel well could fix that 😉

[tim boyd]

57 minutes ago, CapSat 6 said:

That could definitely be a way to go. The original MPC ‘71-‘74 Road Runners used a different chassis tool, but the 1:1 cars would have used the same stuff. 

That approach would solve many problems: the wire front axle of the Charger, the poor appearance and molded in exhaust of the chassis in the Road Runner, and also, multiple bodies and interiors could be developed- for instance- ‘72 Charger Rallye, ‘74 Charger SE and Rallye, ‘71 Road Runner & GTX, ‘72 Road Runner…all using the same basic tool. 

EDIT: Satellites used a 115” wheelbase those years, which Chargers used a 117” wb. This probably would not a huge problem if the kits were developed at the same time. 

Not sure what specific cars are involved in the Edit statement, but for 1971-74 the Charger and Road Runner/Sebring 2-doors used the same wheelbase dimension, 115".  The '71 to '74 Coronet 4-door sedan and wagon and Belvedere 4-soor sedan/wagon shared a longer wheelbase chassis, listed as 117" or 118" in a quick google search, although 117" seems more familiar without doing a deep dive into my reference archives...TB  

[CapSat 6]

34 minutes ago, tim boyd said:

Not sure what specific cars are involved in the Edit statement, but for 1971-74 the Charger and Road Runner/Sebring 2-doors used the same wheelbase dimension, 115".  The '71 to '74 Coronet 4-door sedan and wagon and Belvedere 4-soor sedan/wagon shared a longer wheelbase chassis, listed as 117" or 118" in a quick google search, although 117" seems more familiar without doing a deep dive into my reference archives...TB  

I probably mixed it up in my haste...the more we noodle with this, the more I'm moving from "shoot some plastic into that Super Charger" to "new project for '71-'74 B Bodies like the Coronet/ Demon".

Did I mention I'm having lots of fun?  

[CapSat 6]

1 hour ago, tim boyd said:

Still more on this...in the spring of 1973 my Dad bought a new Coronet Crestwood wagon (the one with the wood decals) from Pointe Dodge on Mack Avenue in Detroit/Gross Pointe Michigan.  It was a dealer demo and was loaded with some pretty unique stuff....400 Magnum with duals, Tuff steering wheel, dealer-applied red upper body pinstripes, and most surprisingly, the not-for B-Body dark blue midnight metallic that was a C-body color only that year.  When he picked up the car, there was also a 1973 Charger SE on the lot painted the same color, with the optional white halo vinyl roof, which was a little-known '73 SE option for those like me who thought the standard three-window "louver" SE roof was beyond goofy, red pinstripes, 15x7 Rallyes and RWL Polyglas rubber, and a white with black console interior.  It was back then, and ever since, the coolest 1973 Charger I have ever seen.  Over the years (decades) I've been collecting parts to recreate that one in scale.  If they ever rebooted the SuperCharger with the wheel wheels corrected, that might be the ticket to get underway. 

As for that non-production color.  I never learned the real story, other than that the dealer principle, Ken Meade, was very closely connected to Chrysler leadership at Mother Mopar and probably could get strings pulled, as by 1971 non-production coloros were pretty much a thing of the past for most OEMs.  However, in the last few years, Mopar Collectors Guide ran an article on at least one more '71 B-Body that was factory painted in the same C-Body midnight blue metallic, so this may have been some type of factory sales staff spring promotion to get more dealer orders, although I have never seen any factory documentation to support that.   TB l

I really like hearing these "back in the day" stories about factory unicorns. By the time I came along, all that seemed to be left were 318 cars  

[tim boyd]

30 minutes ago, CapSat 6 said:

I really like hearing these "back in the day" stories about factory unicorns. By the time I came along, all that seemed to be left were 318 cars  

Smile....kinda sad though too, isn't it?  TB

[tim boyd]

2 hours ago, tim boyd said:

OK if you guys really want to get in the weeds on this....

1) The MPC '72 Charger Promo included a sheet with decals for both the Charger and Challenger Promos.  And what did the decals show?  How about 1972 "R/T" decals, not the actual "Rallye" graphics that came out on the real car.  Thus presumably proving my long-held belief that the change from R/T to generic ho-hum "Rallye" series nomenclature for '72 was not only misguided (my view since the day they came out) but also a very last minute one.  

2) The original 1/1 scale plan for the '71 Charger included several additional side graphics treatments that never made final production.  These were shown in several of the car magazines in their "intro" articles for the 1971 automotive model year.  One of those options also included a never-released stand-alone rear spoiler that was very reminiscent of the GTO Judge approach for 1969.  Guess what, guys.....find an original, unmolested 1971 Charger annual kit and you will find that exact spoiler in the kit parts! 

(I did an article on "might have been muscle cars" showing model kits that featured last minute cancellations of 1/1 scale muscle cars, including both of the above IIRC, and others such as the never-released Boss 429s in the 1970 AMT Torino and MPC Cyclone kits, the cancelled 1975 GTO in the MPC 1975 Ventura kit, and several others.  I wrote it for Hemmings Muscle Machines but they showed no interest, so it finally appeared (in slightly revised form) in an issue of Scale Auto back in the day.)

Makes me want to revisit a kitbashing idea i've had for many years...a 1/25th scale 1972 Charger using the original 1972 "R/T" promo decals and a recreation of the planned but never released semi-hemi 400/440 engine block/heads program that was planned to replace both the B/RB and Hemi engines and was thought to be on track for the 1972 model year.  What a cool model that would be????

TB

UPDATE - that "Might Have Been Musclecars" article referenced above, for those of you with Scale Auto back issue collections, appeared in the June 2016 issue. 

The '71 Charger annual kit prototype spoiler is shown on page 26; the '72 Charger and Challenger R/T promo decal sheet is shown on page 27....

TB 

[CapSat 6]

In the weeds! Yup, that’s where I’m going!!! 

Let’s turn this into a full-on review: 

Notice the box art build has a NASCAR body, and a Hemi (!).

[CapSat 6]

Comparison shot between the Super Charger 440 engine and an original MPC 1969 Coronet R/T engine. 

[CapSat 6]

And here is the spoiler that Tim mentioned above, which came in the ‘71, ‘72 Annuals and Hawaiian Funny Car…

[1972coronet]

RE: Last Minute Change from R/T to Rallye , @tim boyd , et alia :

The R/T was actually shown on factory blueprints as late as 09/1971 ( !! ) Some decades back, I read an article in Mopar Action where its Tech Ed exhibited that same-as-1971-models hood treatment with the R/T front-and-centre. However, there was an accompanying note which read (to paraphrase) : " R/T Info Removed" .

Insofar as the Challenger ; that's the reason for the '72 Challenger Rallye's JS23 VIN prefix. It was indeed a separate model for '72 only ; it was relegated to an option package for '73 (and the JH23 VIN prefix). 

I seem to recall that the Challenger was already slated to be dubbed Rallye while keeping the "JS" prefix. The Charger was a last minute change.

____________________ _____________________ _________________________

The dark blue paint colour you're referring to, @tim boyd,  is _B9 Dark Blue Metallic, a Monaco/Polara (and Fury) colour only. On an A. B, or E body, it would be coded "999".

[CapSat 6]

So…in summation: 

I think this would be worth it to repop, if they have the tooling. For all we know, it might be on the list. I’m sure lots of people would open their wallets for this one. It’s been 40 years after all. This car has “movie car good looks” (much like a person can have “movie star good looks”).  I could see a lot of builds of this one if it ever comes back. 

If Round 2 does bring it back: 

- they should open up all of the gates and see what’s there (of course they will!). The wagon parts would be really, really great to have, if they are still there. 

-they should shoot it in white plastic. 

-they should create new decals: at least one factory body side stripe option, but a comprehensive sheet with black, white, and the yellow/red fade style would be fantastic. The new decals they have been including in their kits have been a real motivator for me to buy some of the kits that I already have. 

if the tooling for this is not viable, then it might be worth it to them to recreate it much like the ‘68 Coronet and ‘71 Demon/ ‘72 Duster. ‘71-‘74 B Bodies can share a common drivetrain and chassis, and this would allow at least 3 or 4 good spinoffs they can bake in.  

My suggestions for the spinoffs: ‘74 Charger SE (never done as a kit; these were always a little weird to me, but they have grown on me), ‘74 Rallye, ‘71 Road Runner, ‘72 Road Runner. Perhaps a ‘72 Rallye would work as well. 

A new tool with it’s variants might generate more sales of their ‘71 Charger, both as a companion piece, and as kitbash material. 

Dont take this as a rant, it’s just friendly, shameless propaganda. At the very least, I hope you have all enjoyed my presentation.  

[stavanzer]

I agree with all you have said!

I'd be up first for a Re-pop.

"If Round 2 does bring it back: 

- they should open up all of the gates and see what’s there (of course they will!). The wagon parts would be really, really great to have, if they are still there. 

-they should shoot it in white plastic. 

-they should create new decals: at least one factory body side stripe option, but a comprehensive sheet with black, white, and the yellow/red fade style would be fantastic. The new decals they have been including in their kits have been a real motivator for me to buy some of the kits that I already have."

I'd add, that it would be a great call back to the Original 1980's kit if they would include both the Clear and Smoked Glass..and 2 sets of tires.

[CapSat 6]

1 hour ago, stavanzer said:

I agree with all you have said!

I'd be up first for a Re-pop.

"If Round 2 does bring it back: 

- they should open up all of the gates and see what’s there (of course they will!). The wagon parts would be really, really great to have, if they are still there. 

-they should shoot it in white plastic. 

-they should create new decals: at least one factory body side stripe option, but a comprehensive sheet with black, white, and the yellow/red fade style would be fantastic. The new decals they have been including in their kits have been a real motivator for me to buy some of the kits that I already have."

I'd add, that it would be a great call back to the Original 1980's kit if they would include both the Clear and Smoked Glass..and 2 sets of tires.

Yes! The whole Round 2 nine yards! 

[tim boyd]

9 hours ago, 1972coronet said:

RE: Last Minute Change from R/T to Rallye , @tim boyd , et alia :

The R/T was actually shown on factory blueprints as late as 09/1971 ( !! ) Some decades back, I read an article in Mopar Action where its Tech Ed exhibited that same-as-1971-models hood treatment with the R/T front-and-centre. However, there was an accompanying note which read (to paraphrase) : " R/T Info Removed" .

Insofar as the Challenger ; that's the reason for the '72 Challenger Rallye's JS23 VIN prefix. It was indeed a separate model for '72 only ; it was relegated to an option package for '73 (and the JH23 VIN prefix). 

I seem to recall that the Challenger was already slated to be dubbed Rallye while keeping the "JS" prefix. The Charger was a last minute change.

____________________ _____________________ _________________________

The dark blue paint colour you're referring to, @tim boyd,  is _B9 Dark Blue Metallic, a Monaco/Polara (and Fury) colour only. On an A. B, or E body, it would be coded "999".

Thanks John....I have a pretty extensive library of Mopar Action back issues but do not recall reading the above....really helpful and really appreciate the update.

And yes, the color was B9.  I have been slowly collecting info on the car from my late Dad's files....I did find the window sticker not too long ago and it did show 999 on the color position.  Only a few days ago I found a packet of color negs and it appears to have a front 3/4 and rear 3/4 image of the car...need to find a place to print photos for me and my brothers.   

[drodg]

3 hours ago, tim boyd said:

Thanks John....I have a pretty extensive library of Mopar Action back issues but do not recall reading the above....really helpful and really appreciate the update.

And yes, the color was B9.  I have been slowly collecting info on the car from my late Dad's files....I did find the window sticker not too long ago and it did show 999 on the color position.  Only a few days ago I found a packet of color negs and it appears to have a front 3/4 and rear 3/4 image of the car...need to find a place to print photos for me and my brothers.   

Back in 1976 here in Valparaiso Indiana there was a dark blue metallic 1975 Dart 360 Sport in town.  I think that same blue and of course it did was not offered on A bodies either.  It was a rally wheel car with RWL and body side mouldings not stripes.  I loved the looks of the car and talked to the owner about it and he said that it was a corporate exec car that he ended up getting from one of the Dodge dealers I believe here in NW Indiana.  

[drodg]

3 hours ago, tim boyd said:

Thanks John....I have a pretty extensive library of Mopar Action back issues but do not recall reading the above....really helpful and really appreciate the update.

And yes, the color was B9.  I have been slowly collecting info on the car from my late Dad's files....I did find the window sticker not too long ago and it did show 999 on the color position.  Only a few days ago I found a packet of color negs and it appears to have a front 3/4 and rear 3/4 image of the car...need to find a place to print photos for me and my brothers.   

Thanks everyone this is great info even though we got in the weeds a bit.