cruz Posted September 10, 2009 Posted September 10, 2009 Okay guys, in my broken English, I will try my best to explain this. I got together with some of the Monthly meeting fellas to ask their advice on this. Of course, the last thing on my mind was sharing this in the forum, not that I was hiding anything, it's just that I totally forgot! Of course, I would like your input on this, not only on price but on the idea!! I have seen how a lot of my fellow modelers do this, they go out, spend 12 to 16 dollars (of course, nowadays is more) on a kit, stash it away for a few years and all of a sudden they want to get rid of them either because of lack of space or need of money. In my case is more an issue of space, of course, the money doesn't hurt. With that said, most of the time, I see that they sell the kits for a fraction of what they paid. I have seen them sold for as much as 10 dollars and in some cases for as little as 4. Personally, I don't think is very smart, by the time they sell their collection they will be loosing a lot of money, and why? Because the kits are not sealed? Other reasons are probably because the boxes they came in are slightly crushed?. I can understand if there are some parts missing or if the model was at some point and time partially started, then I can probably see 7 or 10 dollars. To me it's just a waste of money and good kits. Now, here is my dilema. I want to sell some of my kits but I what I want most of all is not to loose on the deal and of course, with all honesty, make a few extra dollars doing so. I am selling them with the bodies painted, wet-sanded, polished and foiled. My price you say? Well, I would say 60 to 70 dollars! Of course, on a kit like a '59 Impala with all the foil work that's involved, let's say 80. What do you guys think! Am I going overboard? I mean, I am no Bill Geary or anything like that but I do put a lot of time on my models. The other issue that bothers me is the fact that when some of the guys decide to compete with my painted models, some others at the shows will probably say that the kit was not painted by the builder. This is where I don't want to create a fuss. In your opinion, would this be fair? Can I get away with something like that without probably making a few enemies along the way? Are there modelers out there that get their models painted by other builders in order to compete because they didn't feel comfortable about their painting skills? All in all, when everything is said and done, again, my concern is making sure that I am comfortable enough to let my kits go at a fair price. I understand that there are guys out there more talented than others, when I see some of the models posted in this forum, I am really amazed at the talent that some of you simply have. I consider myself just another one in the bunch, not that being in that bunch is bad, I think is absolutely great but I want to humbly ask for your advice. I am definitely not going to sell my kits that cheap, to me they are worth a lot more!
Harry P. Posted September 10, 2009 Posted September 10, 2009 Sell your models for as much as you can... that's how the free market works. You determine a price that you think is fair, and the buying public will decide whether or not they agree. As far as someone buying a pre-painted model from you and entering it in a contest as their own work... that's not your problem! It's the problem of the person who entered the model as his own work. Once your model is sold, your responsibility as to what happens next is over, and whatever happens from then on is the buyer's responsibility.
chris coller Posted September 10, 2009 Posted September 10, 2009 I lose my a$$ everytime I sell one. With the time and materials alone. Ebay is a tough market to sell. I have seen some replica stocks go for big bucks, but that is definitely not my forte. I have found a niche though that is kinda model related. Kinda have to put somew feelers out there and find the right group to sell to.
RodBurNeR Posted September 10, 2009 Posted September 10, 2009 yeah, if you are painting and foiling then you should be able to get more. there was a few people selling kits like that on ebay awhile back and getting a bunch of money out of them because of the bodies being painted up real nice. I don't see anything wrong with it and I thought of doing it myself, but I don't have the time to build my own haha! I have sold kits because I needed money badly for less than I paid...which really irritated me to do and even though I lowered the prices less than my investment....people still wanted to pay less! I didn't sell for less though! I work for Hobby Lobby and am the department manager of the hobby and art sections. Today I had to "Raise" the prices of about 40 some kits. The kits had been sitting around since I started, but that's why they made me do it. The longer they sit, the more they become valuable to the company because they are losing profit. Now when someone buys one of those kits, the profit will be making up for the loss of sales from last couple of months. If people would regularly buy kits, they would go down in price.....trust me on that. With prices going up because people are not spending, they could eventually stop selling them because it would be a loss. I really would hate to see that. The prices of new kits was already so high to begin with, think yesterday you could spend $17.99 and today they are marked $21.99! No kidding! The prices being high like that, is the main reason I buy from friends or online. I won't pay overhead on top of overhead. What I am saying is....the kits you bought for whatever dollar amount are now worth more....because the cost went up everywhere to buy it in a store again. Problem is, people know they can buy the same kits for many dollars cheaper online or from a friend....so you always lose out no matter what. Best to ya on this buddy! I might be interested, so keep me posted if ya go forward. Always nice to have some friends work on your shelf. (I would never enter anyone's work at a show other than my own though)
cotto Posted September 10, 2009 Posted September 10, 2009 What are you, nuts? With the way you paint you should go higher on that price. On top of that, your foiling skills are out of this world, there is a lot of us that would love to foil like that. Believe me, there will be a lot of interested individuals out there if you decide to do this. You just make sure you post them here, I will definitely be checking them out. (Just give me a better price)
Raul_Perez Posted September 10, 2009 Posted September 10, 2009 Yeah, I agree with the rest of the guys...sell them for whatever you can get. I remember seeing painted bodies going for almost $100 on eBay. For all the time and $$ it takes to paint them, they were well worth what the buyers paid. As for someone else claiming your work, that's their problem, not yours. Whenever I show a model that was partially or completely built by someone else, I list thier name on the build sheet or tag. I'm proud to show work that some of my friends have done. I hope this helps!! Later,
Chillyb1 Posted September 10, 2009 Posted September 10, 2009 What your kits are worth to you is an entirely separate matter from what your kits are worth to someone else. Monetized value is only theoretical until the exact moment of exchange, when some form of currency is given for goods or services. I don't think the prices you are thinking about are out of line for the kind of quality you produce. However, you'll have to find customers who also think that way and who have the money in hand to fork over for your kits. I avoid the problem of having to sell kits, either to make room or to make money, by severely limiting the number of kits I keep on hand to around 20-25. And I always buy them as bargains; in the event that I do need or want to sell a kit I can all but guarantee that it won't sell for less than I paid. But, as Chris Coller pointed out in his post, it is very easy to "lose" money/value when selling built or, in your case, painted models. I've watched auctions of Chris's work and been disappointed to see low-ball bids and not much action. I've experienced the same thing. I sell everything I build on eBay just to help pay for kits and supplies; I'd like to see my models go for big dollar amounts, but wishing doesn't make it so. Partly it is the subject matter, partly it is timing. If nobody is watching your auctions who has a real interest in that particular work, you aren't going to get what you hope for monetarily. The most I've ever gotten is about $100. Which brings me to the other part of your topic. That particular model was purchased and then entered in at least two competitions as the original work of the buyer!! And in one competition it took second place. Hooray for me, indirectly. Anyway, I brought this to the attention of the competition's grandees and, eventually, I was awarded the prize/plaque/trophy. This aspect is not in your control. If someone dishonestly presents your work as his or her own, you can't do anything about it unless, of course, the dishonest practice is found out. I don't know of any venue for you to try to sell your work for the prices you are asking. If you start at those prices on eBay, those painted kits are going to sit around for a loooong time. Brian Nehring made something of a specialty out of selling bodies he painted with spectacular flame jobs, and they sold for some big money (I don't know if he still does this). But he was also able to capitalize on his name and reputation. I admire your work, but do buyers know of your high quality paint jobs? I wish you the best of luck.
cruz Posted September 10, 2009 Author Posted September 10, 2009 Thanks for the replies fellas, this is something I want to do just to get rid of some models, it is not a full time thing. I guess I will do some painting and foiling and just start posting some stuff here and in the clubs, we will all see how it goes. Thanks again!!
mikemodeler Posted September 10, 2009 Posted September 10, 2009 A few years ago there was a company in Michigan advertising in Scale Auto that would sell a painted body of a current kit for around $30, IIRC. Must not have been that good as I haven't seen their ad in several years or else no one stepped up to buy them. This is a tough one for me as while my painting skills are no where near show winning capacity, I have been working on them and improving steadily. I build for me and not contests so the quality of the paint job is secondary to finishing the kit most of the time. I don't have a problem having someone painting a body for me, especially if it is not going to be entered in a show. That being said, how many 1:1 car owners paint their own cars that they enter in shows/contests? Granted, painting in 1:1 is harder than 1/25, but is there really a difference? If I wanted a car with flames on it, I wouldn't hesitate to call Brian and pay him accordingly as it might take me forever to master his abilities, just like I would with a 1:1. I wish you great luck in your venture and hope you are successful. Post some of your samples here and let us know how it goes. Maybe you can have fun AND make a few $$ in the process. Mike
cruz Posted September 22, 2009 Author Posted September 22, 2009 I want to get something straight, I don't mind if you buy a painted body from me and use it in a contest, to me it would be an honor if you did, tells me I must have done something right, right??? I was just concerned about the fuss that could be created by other people. With that said, here is my first effort. It's going for 75.00. Body is free of all mold lines, primed with white primer, airbrushed from a Dupli-Color touch up applicator paint (Chrysler Intense Blue Pearl color) and Cleared w/ Odds and Ends. Wetsanded, polished and waxed thoroughly. I still have to Bare Metal Foil it but would rather wait if buyer opts to do this himself, price is still the same. I will be taking outside pictures later, this color is truly gorgeous if seen w/ true light. Panel lines are re-scribed and made deeper, just makes for a more realistic look. Kit is complete in box with its decals and instructions. Hosted on Fotki Hosted on Fotki Hosted on Fotki Hosted on Fotki Hosted on Fotki Hosted on Fotki
James Flowers Posted September 22, 2009 Posted September 22, 2009 How would anyone know who painted the model? If no one tells ? Maybe you should put some tell.tail mark in every paint job you do? If you or anyone else is concerned about that. By the way nice paint work.
Jantrix Posted September 22, 2009 Posted September 22, 2009 You do excellent work. And I do believe there is a market for what you are suggesting however with todays economy people have less disposable income. I suggest you do up one kit. Get a great glossy finish, take pics outside on a good sunny day so the quality of the work shines though. Start the bidding at say $35 and see what happens. That Willys is a pretty popular kit, people like it, it should sell. It should be a good measuring stick for the future of your idea. Just my $.02
cruz Posted September 22, 2009 Author Posted September 22, 2009 You do excellent work. And I do believe there is a market for what you are suggesting however with todays economy people have less disposable income. I suggest you do up one kit. Get a great glossy finish, take pics outside on a good sunny day so the quality of the work shines though. Start the bidding at say $35 and see what happens. That Willys is a pretty popular kit, people like it, it should sell. It should be a good measuring stick for the future of your idea. Just my $.02 Thanks for your suggestion my friend, not a bad idea but again, the idea is not to give my models away. Between the paint, clear and shipping ( I will be paying the shipping charges) I am 30 dollars in the hole already, it's definitely not starting at $35 Again, this is just a test to see how it does, if it doesn't go well I will get a buyer down the road, let's see!!!!
cotto Posted September 22, 2009 Posted September 22, 2009 I think $75 dollars is more than adequate and once you take some pictures outside it will look better. The gloss is there, don't know why Jantrix is suggesting a glossy finish when it's showing in these pictures but again, you should take them outside under a bright sunny day. I just wish I had the money to buy it, I will see how this goes.
cruz Posted September 22, 2009 Author Posted September 22, 2009 I will take pictures of it outside but personally, I don't believe in taking pictures directly under a bright sunny day, with metallic paints it is always a mistake. I guarantee you that you will see the gloss!!!
Jon Cole Posted September 22, 2009 Posted September 22, 2009 Marcos, that is some good work you do! Like everyone else said, go ahead and sell for profit! If the buyer mis-represents it in a contest, that is beyond your control. One possibility, perhaps, is to add a painters signature, like on some 1:1 cars, such as "Paint by Cruz", added down low on the back, then clear-coated to seal it. That's the price the buyer pays for not doing their own paint. I would think any honest builder wouldn't have a problem with that.
cruz Posted September 22, 2009 Author Posted September 22, 2009 These are some day pictures I took in the morning, wish it would have been a little sunnier but here we go, definitely can see the true color much better... Hosted on Fotki Hosted on Fotki Hosted on Fotki Hosted on Fotki Hosted on Fotki Hosted on Fotki
styromaniac Posted September 23, 2009 Posted September 23, 2009 I will take pictures of it outside but personally, I don't believe in taking pictures directly under a bright sunny day, with metallic paints it is always a mistake. I guarantee you that you will see the gloss!!! Senor' Cruz ! Ola'...I know your work from seeing it in person at some of the MAMA meetings in Maryland...( haven't been to one in awhile..too much family stuff goin' on right now ...but the great thing about the Internet esp Fotki and other web sites like these is we can tune in remotely and catch up with what's goin' on ). Personally... painting car bodies is my own Achilles Heel..I don't have a good place to do it indoors and when I've spoken w/ those that do it well I get a range of experiences...suffice it to say a lot of people out there would no doubt like a display model of their favorite Hot Rod or Muscle Car but don't have the time or necessary skills to get it done on their own...hence the appearance of pre-painted models and the increasing popularity of Die-Cast. It all comes down to dollars..my bro' is an excellent detailer and would love to have a classic Candy Apple Red Mazmanian Willys or Austin Gasser but the projects he has started are on hold till he gets on top of the learning curve w/ those difficult paint finishes..maybe a reasonably priced pre-painted body would help those projects along. Just don't know what the break point is for most people's wallets..but if I was passionate about a certain subject matter and was dying to have it done well..I'd probably spend some bucks. There's a happy medium out there somewhere between the make and color ...hopefully you'll find it. One things for sure....rodders do love those Willys. As for the contests..depends on the rules..as long as it's stated honestly who did what. Frankly I'd probably not enter anything that wasn't 100% me ..that's why my few and far between contest entries in the past have not relied on killer paint finishes but unusual subject matter. ( The Rat Rod craze sure helped out the less than stellar painters. ) That's my 2 cents worth. P.S. Beautiful finish on the Willys.
cotto Posted September 24, 2009 Posted September 24, 2009 Hey Cruz, question, what did you thin that paint with? I have some lacquer thinner but have not had any luck thinning my paint. For some reason it's coming out too dry. You did say you airbrushed yours right?
cruz Posted September 24, 2009 Author Posted September 24, 2009 Hey Cruz, question, what did you thin that paint with? I have some lacquer thinner but have not had any luck thinning my paint. For some reason it's coming out too dry. You did say you airbrushed yours right?Thinned it with acetone and airbrushed it....
MrObsessive Posted September 24, 2009 Posted September 24, 2009 Cruz, I'm glad that acetone worked for you-------that Willys looks fantastic!!
cruz Posted September 24, 2009 Author Posted September 24, 2009 Cruz, I'm glad that acetone worked for you-------that Willys looks fantastic!! Thanks Bill, the acetone was perfect, better than lacquer for this application!!!
meaneyme Posted September 24, 2009 Posted September 24, 2009 This thing is awesome man, I have a friend who is telling me he wants this, he is not even a modeler but wants to buy it from you. The only problem is that I want it for myself
cruz Posted September 24, 2009 Author Posted September 24, 2009 This thing is awesome man, I have a friend who is telling me he wants this, he is not even a modeler but wants to buy it from you. The only problem is that I want it for myself That's funny man but what I find funnier is that I have another guy who is interested in seeing it tonight but is also interested in buying a few built models I have. Depending on his decision tonoght I will let you know by tomorrow. I will send you a private e-mail!!
meaneyme Posted September 24, 2009 Posted September 24, 2009 That's funny man but what I find funnier is that I have another guy who is interested in seeing it tonight but is also interested in buying a few built models I have. Depending on his decision tonoght I will let you know by tomorrow. I will send you a private e-mail!! Thanks man, I will make sure to cast an evil spell on this individual so that he doesn't buy it That car is mine amigo.
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