What Happens to the Molds and Masters When...

[Casey]

...a resin caster goes out of business? Is it common for other casters/companies to purchase the closing company's molds and masters?

I'm sure it's up the the owner what to do with the stuff, but if he/she closes shop, are the masters returned to those who supplied them, if they're not created by the owner him/herself?

I was paging through a 1996 issue of SAE and saw an ad for SJS Details Studebaker pickup, and had to wonder what ever become of the molds for some of his stuff. I mailed away (remmeber when people did that?) for SJS's catalog and my goodness there was some cool stuff inside- Stude pickups, a Nash wrecker, the ice cream truck, a '50s cargo box, and so on.

Maybe Art can answer this, but whatever became of AAM's Olds 442 W-30 hood? I bought one of those while building a '70 Olds Rallye 350 and it was a very nicely done piece.

[Bowtienutz]

SJS product line was sold to perry's Resin IIRC. Some casters will sell off their stuff and try to recoup some of their investment. If masters are made by someone hopefully they were all returned.

In AAM case Art says that he has all his masters that he built, Art will outlive us all So maybe your unborn grandson will be around for Art's estate sale.

[Steven Zimmerman]

The molds break down ,and are good for only so many castings,depending on how smooth the master was , how well the mold was made/thickness and quality of the rubber, how well the mold was designed/depth of undercuts, how easily casting pulls from mold, care caster uses in casting, how long he lets the casting set up, proper use of release agent,proper care and storage of the mold,and just plain LUCK....I've seen many castings on the market where it was obvious the mold was shot,and should have been thrown out.I've seen molds still good after 50/60 castings,others gone to pot after 10. As to Masters,some get sent back to the master builder and the first 'good' casting out of the mold is saved for future molds,some casters keep the master; this is generally an agreement between the masterbuilder and the caster.An interesting 'aside'...I've seen casters forget to put release agent on the rubber when making two part molds;They get this great big blob of rubber encasing the master and have to carve it away for the master and start over.

[Steven Zimmerman]

Sorry,that should have read'carve it away FROM the master and start over'....

[Tom Jackson]

Intombed Master I wonder Z is this first hand knowledge?

[george 53]

Sometimes a master is set off to be cast,and NEVER returned. Oh well.

[jeffb]

entombed master..sounds like a jackie chan movie. i can tell you first hand, its SUKS!!!ive had release agent that must have been a double agent. sprayed the molds correctly, went to pull em apart...emtombed....even funner, the master was totaly destroyed while trying to free it.

[Tom Jackson]

Ouch . I have made a few small molds that became soild blocks . I would freak if I had a car body master get Entombed .

[george 53]

Entomed Master. Wasn't that the latest Mummy movie? The one about the Chinese Mummy????

[Smart-Resins]

intombed masters. Now I have had that, even after spraying mold release, but apparently not enough! LOL. actally twice. First time was cool. Second time, was actually not the master, but I did a rubber tires. I sprayed the heck out of the two rubber mold halves, poured my black rubber for the tire. Next day, I had one solid two toned piece. LOL. That killed $20 worth of rubber in a hurry as it was a 1/16 scale slick! LOL. Now for masters, I prefer to keep the masters if I can! But, I have made arrangments with others to send thier masters back. With VW Dave, I sent his back. Now I got more, and this time made a deal to keep them. As for others, I know theres a hood I need to return once I get it done. But sometimes I work at a snails pace who is stuck in molasses in the middle of Feburary in Alaska! LOL. JOdy

[Art Anderson]

...a resin caster goes out of business? Is it common for other casters/companies to purchase the closing company's molds and masters?

I'm sure it's up the the owner what to do with the stuff, but if he/she closes shop, are the masters returned to those who supplied them, if they're not created by the owner him/herself?

I was paging through a 1996 issue of SAE and saw an ad for SJS Details Studebaker pickup, and had to wonder what ever become of the molds for some of his stuff. I mailed away (remmeber when people did that?) for SJS's catalog and my goodness there was some cool stuff inside- Stude pickups, a Nash wrecker, the ice cream truck, a '50s cargo box, and so on.

Maybe Art can answer this, but whatever became of AAM's Olds 442 W-30 hood? I bought one of those while building a '70 Olds Rallye 350 and it was a very nicely done piece.

Believe it or not, RTV rubber molds are perishable, they deteriorate over time, whether used or not. For body shell molds, it takes a relatively soft rubber, in order to be able to flex the mold to remove the finished casting, and that generally means "tin-cured rubber". Trouble is though, that tin cured rubber has a very short life--the mold starts to deteriorate immediately starting with the very first pour--as some of the components of the resin leach, or penetrate into the rubber starting with that very first time you pour resin into it. Most tin-cured RTV molds are good for no more than say, 35-40 pulls before the surfaces that make the part deteriorate to the point that the quality of the finished part is nowhere near what you'd want as a finished part. Over time, tin-cured RTV breaks down to the point that merely picking up a heavy body mold off the shelf can make the mold itself tear in two simply from its own weight. Platinum-cured RTV doesn't do that, but it has two drawbacks--first it's about twice as expensive up front, and second, it has a much higher hardness, making it very hard on not only cured castings, but also on the masters themselves.

There is also the matter of material fatigue where masters are concerned. Most of the AAM masters were themselves massive conversions of existing styrene body shells--I learned early on, that specific techniques had to be used in order to ensure that a heavily converted body shell from a kit be sturdy enough to resist breakage when demolding it from a new RTV mold--an awful lot of my bench time was consumed in repairing broken masters. Even at that, some body shell masters eventually broke into literally dozens of pieces at some point, the styrene just got fatigued to that point. For that reason, I used to save the first 3 castings from any new project, so that I could use the resin body shell to create new molds from--but even that was fraught with troubles--given the even slight shrinkage factor (an RTV rubber mold can shrink the part cast at least by a factor of -5%).

I still have all the masters that exist from AAM, save for perhaps a dozen or so that broke up irreparably, except for all the pre-WWII stuff that I sold to R&D Unique back in late 2000--none of which ever got reissued. I have absolutely no plans whatsoever to ever cast those again--too much effort, too much space required for that--those will remain with me, either as just dust-gathering archives, or perhaps to be built up by me at some point in the future, so don't ask any further.

Art

[dimaxion]

I agree with Art . You don't know how much work it is to make a casting until you do it yourself . You deserve to enjoy these masters as much work done by you and build them .

I have a Master I won on Evilbait . I will build it as soon as I have the funds to buy the rest of the parts .

Thanx..

Edited January 30, 2010 by dimaxion

[jeffb]

yeah..what art said.. and heres an example and this isnt the worst one

[george 53]

OHHH NOOOO!!! a Ranchero version of my WAGON!!!! The HORROR!!!!!!!

[Modelmartin]

yeah..what art said.. and heres an example and this isnt the worst one

I share your pain!!!!

[jeffb]

best part is, its all better now, and has been dipped in rubber again