The Elusive 1904 Knox Waterless Truck project

[Art Anderson]

A lot has happened since last I posted this one. Axles have been built, springs located and soldered to the frame, axles soldered to the ends of the springs, wheels completed with new detailed brass hubs, and FINALLY! The engine was mounted in the frame this last week, and today I started the chain drive system. To this point, the wheels (although modified) and the chain drive sprockets and chain itself are the products of Grandt Line, the model RR detail parts house. Only the left side chain drive is mounted at this point, have to wait for the JB Weld Epoxy that secures the sprockets to the shafts to set up before I do the right side. But, finally, it's not just a growing collection of funny looking brass parts and subassemblies!

Engine was installed last weekend, and today, the left side of the chain drive setup:

It is starting to come together pretty quickly now, so stay tuned!

Art

[sjordan2]

This is going to be great. Is there something here about white tires on the front and black on the rear? I assume it's a work in progress. Also, what color/process are you using to make the front tires white, and what did you start out with? On that subject, what timeline do you suggest for the transition from white tires to those with carbon black? I'm trying to determine whether my 1914 Stutz Bearcat should have white or black tires.

Edited April 23, 2010 by sjordan2

[Art Anderson]

This is going to be great. Is there something here about white tires on the front and black on the rear? I assume it's a work in progress. Also, what color/process are you using to make the front tires white, and what did you start out with? On that subject, what timeline do you suggest for the transition from white tires to those with carbon black?

Skip,

Easy answer! The white solid rubber tires are actually .060" x .100" Evergreen strip styrene wrapped around the wheel, while the rear tires are black PVC ones from the Ertl diecast Knox that inspired this project (put on for expediency, for when I took the rolling chassis less engine, to MassCar last month). They will be replaced by the same method as the front tires though pretty soon.

Art

[Chuck Most]

I've been wondering what ever happened to the Knox project, Art. Good to see you are still going at it! Better still, good to see progress!

[disabled modeler]

Hi Art...Looks great so far! Ill have to keep an eye on your project...nice.

[sjordan2]

Skip,

Easy answer! The white solid rubber tires are actually .060" x .100" Evergreen strip styrene wrapped around the wheel, while the rear tires are black PVC ones from the Ertl diecast Knox that inspired this project (put on for expediency, for when I took the rolling chassis less engine, to MassCar last month). They will be replaced by the same method as the front tires though pretty soon.

Art

Wow. That's professional model building. But should I put white or black tires on my 1914 Stutz? My build will be based on the Bearcat from the John Wayne movie, "The Wings of Eagles." I've found updated pictures of the same car since the movie, but there's no telling what's original or updated. Further, since the 1/16 Bearcat kit is a curbside, I'm trying to determine how to blend that with the Lindberg racer, which has full engine detail. But perhaps that's for another thread, and I can get back to you later on this subject.

Edited April 23, 2010 by sjordan2

[Harry P.]

Some interesting Knox background/history/info here:

http://www.hemmings.com/hcc/stories/2007/01/01/hmn_feature12.html

[Art Anderson]

Wow. That's professional model building. But should I put white or black tires on my 1914 Stutz? My build will be based on the Bearcat from the John Wayne movie, "The Wings of Eagles." I've found updated pictures of the same car since the movie, but there's no telling what's original or updated. Further, since the 1/16 Bearcat kit is a curbside, I'm trying to determine how to blend that with the Lindberg racer, which has full engine detail. But perhaps that's for another thread, and I can get back to you later on this subject.

For starters, there was no such thing as a white tire in 1914! What you see in black and white pics are natural latex rubber tires that were colored with carbon black, which made for more strength (carbon black actually toughens rubber, both latex and synthetic), but since latex rubber when vulcanized is a buff or dark cream color, the tires came out as a medium grey color. The primitive camera films and exposure times of the era made them appear white though.

Actually, a far better kit to do that Stutz from "The Wings of Eagles" (one of my fave movies from boyhood, BTW--saw it in the theater when I was 12!) would be the AMT/Ertl 1914 Stutz (ex MPC tooling) which is full detail and in 1/25 scale. I am also sure that the engine is far more accurate, being a Waukesha T-Head engine, where I believe the Lindberg kit has the later Wisconsin engine.

Art

[Harry P.]

On a semi-related note... when did Model T's go from white tires to black ones?

[Art Anderson]

On a semi-related note... when did Model T's go from white tires to black ones?

Carbon Black began being added to latex rubber about 1910 or so.

[sjordan2]

For starters, there was no such thing as a white tire in 1914! What you see in black and white pics are natural latex rubber tires that were colored with carbon black, which made for more strength (carbon black actually toughens rubber, both latex and synthetic), but since latex rubber when vulcanized is a buff or dark cream color, the tires came out as a medium grey color. The primitive camera films and exposure times of the era made them appear white though.

Actually, a far better kit to do that Stutz from "The Wings of Eagles" (one of my fave movies from boyhood, BTW--saw it in the theater when I was 12!) would be the AMT/Ertl 1914 Stutz (ex MPC tooling) which is full detail and in 1/25 scale. I am also sure that the engine is far more accurate, being a Waukesha T-Head engine, where I believe the Lindberg kit has the later Wisconsin engine.

Art

Yup, I saw "The Wings of Eagles" first-run in the theaters when I was a kid, too (I was 10), and to me the Stutz was the star of the show. I still have the original Dell comic book (awesome artwork by Alex Toth) and the movie is among my John Wayne collection DVDs.

Is the AMT/Ertl version the same kit that was issued in relation to the George Barris replica for the "Bearcats" TV series?

As for tires,was the "Nonskid" tread contemporary and common with those cars or is it a later issue?

Edited April 24, 2010 by sjordan2

[Art Anderson]

Yup, I saw "The Wings of Eagles" first-run in the theaters when I was a kid, too (I was 10), and to me the Stutz was the star of the show. I still have the original Dell comic book (awesome artwork by Alex Toth) and the movie is among my John Wayne collection DVDs.

Is the AMT/Ertl version the same kit that was issued in relation to the George Barris replica for the "Bearcats" TV series?

As for tires,was the "Nonskid" tread contemporary and common with those cars or is it a later issue?

One and the same, but it is a fully stock, quite accurate Stutz Bearcat, down to the massive T-head 4cyl engine, and the unique Stutz transaxle. And yes, Firestone NON SKID tires would be correct for the 1914 Stutz, if you can find a set!

Art

Edited April 24, 2010 by Art Anderson

[Alyn]

Art, this is a real treat to watch your progress on this project. Your modeling skills are obvious, but the addition of you knowledge of the subject matter, and automobiles in general raises it to higher level.

Very unique; please keep the updates coming.

[Chuck Most]

Actually, a far better kit to do that Stutz from "The Wings of Eagles" (one of my fave movies from boyhood, BTW--saw it in the theater when I was 12!) would be the AMT/Ertl 1914 Stutz (ex MPC tooling) which is full detail and in 1/25 scale. I am also sure that the engine is far more accurate, being a Waukesha T-Head engine, where I believe the Lindberg kit has the later Wisconsin engine.

Art

I have the MPC version of this kit-

I never knew it was reissued under the AMT/Ertl name. I think this kit does have the Wisconsin Beaver engine, but I don't remember. I was never even aware that the Bearcat had a Waukesha engine, all the books I have list the Wisconsin engine. (Grain of salt, I only have two books in my collection containing any info on Bearcats! ) I've still got the engine from the Stutz- one of these days I want to build a truck around it.

[sjordan2]

I have the MPC version of this kit-

I never knew it was reissued under the AMT/Ertl name. I think this kit does have the Wisconsin Beaver engine, but I don't remember. I was never even aware that the Bearcat had a Waukesha engine, all the books I have list the Wisconsin engine. (Grain of salt, I only have two books in my collection containing any info on Bearcats! ) I've still got the engine from the Stutz- one of these days I want to build a truck around it.

Is this the same kit as the Airfix?

EDIT: Oops – sorry, Art, I didn't mean to hijack this thread. I'll bring it up when I get into the Stutz. Want to see more on your water truck.

Edited April 24, 2010 by sjordan2

[Art Anderson]

Is this the same kit as the Airfix?

EDIT: Oops – sorry, Art, I didn't mean to hijack this thread. I'll bring it up when I get into the Stutz. Want to see more on your water truck.

Airfix may well have packaged the MPC Stutz Bearcat for sale in the UK and on the continent, as they and MPC did a lot of tool sharing back in the late 60's/early 70's.

Art

[Art Anderson]

I have the MPC version of this kit-

I never knew it was reissued under the AMT/Ertl name. I think this kit does have the Wisconsin Beaver engine, but I don't remember. I was never even aware that the Bearcat had a Waukesha engine, all the books I have list the Wisconsin engine. (Grain of salt, I only have two books in my collection containing any info on Bearcats! ) I've still got the engine from the Stutz- one of these days I want to build a truck around it.

Chuck, I think you are right! The T-head engine used by Stutz was made by Wisconsin Engine Company.

Art

[Chuck Most]

I dug out this box a couple of nights ago, and it does list the engine as a Wisconsin, and Wisconsin is engraved in the heads. It's a very nicely done engine, as well!

[Art Anderson]

OK, time for an update! Lots has happened since April 23, when this thread started. Engine is installed, as is the chain-drive driveline. But, the next two parts have been tons of fun!

First the steering wheel. Now, I've never made a steering wheel before, never. But, I just hadda give this a try. So, where to start? Well, with some .016" thick K&S brass strip, an inch wide, that's where. With me so far? Now, there's nothing to cutting brass that thin, I've done it with heavy kitchen shears before, but this needed to be a bit more precise, and lots better looking at the end. So, off to the mill we go. But what to hold that piece of brass with? Presto! Dremel makes a mandril with a machine screw in the end, the one used for cutoff wheels. So, drill a 5/64" hole in the brass (that's the clearance diameter of the screw in the mandrel. Next, put screw through hole, thread into mandrel, tight it up. Worked too! Put mandrel in lathe chuck which was then mounted on a rotary milling table (crank-driven, each notch on the handwheel is one degree of a circle. Start the mill, nudge a side mill against the brass--oops! The dad-gummed thing just backed the screw out of its hole--scratch one piece of now screwed up brass. Make up another blank piece, but how to keep that from happening again? Why, a drop of gap-filling CA glue on the threads, thread into mandrel, tighten securely (and yes, the screw was still removable with a little bit of effort), and mill away. AFter cutting the brass into a perfect circle, exactly the diameter needed for a rim to be made, time to mill out the spokes. Now I know how to back the work away to one side of the side mill, to make spokes that are wide, but still centered on a perfect right angle, but I forgot to trust my mill, go by what the dials were telling me, made two attempts that came out with offset spokes, so for the third try, I decided I needed to use the dial only, trust that--and it worked. Next was the rim:

The rim is 1/16" brass rod, annealed, and then formed by hand around a bar of aluminum which was the diameter chosen for the spoke unit--that rim scales out to a tiny bit over 1.5" in scale, which is about right for a brass era/horseless carriage era wood rimmed steering wheel. After trimming the cut ends very carefully, then touching those up with a flat needle file so the ends fit tightly together, a bit of silver solder to hold them, smooth out the joint was all it took. Then, put the spoke "spider" into the rim, and silver solder the joints. Done! (there will be a center nut that still has to be made, but that will happen once the steering column shaft is made)

Now, for the steering column and throttle quadrant! This one took a lot more time, and figuring how to go about it. I actually started on the quadrant SIX times--each one ending in a lesson how not to make it! First couple of times, the side mill (.040") grabbed the work, ruined it, because I was making it out of too thin a stock. Then, when enlarging the center hole (for the steering column) I laid a nice second-degree burn on one finger--hey, brass does get that hot very quickly when you try holding it with bare fingers! The 6th try was done in .064" thick brass strip, but I made the arms at the ends of the arc just thin enough so when I started cutting the detents (those thingies that look like gear teeth), my little dental cutter got hold of that very thin section, made a nice golden little pretzel! Seventh try: This time, I marked out the arc (90-degrees, but not cut completely through. Now, I could cut detents in the arc, but without ruining the work. After doing this, I then retraced all the partially deep cuts with the end mill, until they were cut clear through. Also, I left a long tail, about an inch or so opposite the arc. This would make a perfect place to grip this part in a milling vise for enlarging the center hole, after which ( simply parted off the excess brass stock on that side of the part, It worked, and it made it possible to not only enlarge the hole, but I was able to use a 5/32 end mill to ensure a perfect slip fit of the finished quadrant onto the steering column. The last milling operation was to cut a 90-degree slot across the steering column, so that the throttle arm had a place to go there, and for ease in soldering it in place. The throttle lever is 1/16" brass rod, annealed, then flattened on its outer end, to make it slightly paddle-shaped. All that was needed then was to give it an elongated Zee bend, so that the lever goes under the quadrant at the hub, and on top of it at the arc. The detents were cut with a .030" diameter dental burr (Thanks Dr Misecko!). All done, soldered up:

Comments?

Art

[sjordan2]

Keep it coming. I'm enjoying my front row seat.

[charlie8575]

Art, this is really exciting to watch. I've enjoyed watching this project since the start and was thrilled to see it at both Classic Plastic and MassCar. Watching you do this really makes me want to kick myself for not taking machine shop in college when I had the opportunity to.

Charlie Larkin

[Chuck Most]

Art-

So great to see progress being made on the Knox once again!

[Jim Gibbons]

Looking great!

[Art Anderson]

Art, this is really exciting to watch. I've enjoyed watching this project since the start and was thrilled to see it at both Classic Plastic and MassCar. Watching you do this really makes me want to kick myself for not taking machine shop in college when I had the opportunity to.

Charlie Larkin

Almost everything there, Chuck, is done "by the numbers" on the handwheels of the mill. Pretty much this has been a matter of trusting the numbers along the way.

Art

Art, this is really exciting to watch. I've enjoyed watching this project since the start and was thrilled to see it at both Classic Plastic and MassCar. Watching you do this really makes me want to kick myself for not taking machine shop in college when I had the opportunity to.

Charlie Larkin

I'll be at Classic Plastic, as will the Knox.

Art, this is really exciting to watch. I've enjoyed watching this project since the start and was thrilled to see it at both Classic Plastic and MassCar. Watching you do this really makes me want to kick myself for not taking machine shop in college when I had the opportunity to.

Charlie Larkin

I'll be at Classic Plastic, as will the Knox.

[Romell R]

This is nice I like working with brass too, theres something about burning the C R A P outta ya fingers that i just cant get enough of. LOL! Great work keep the updates comming