Kit prices for a well detailed kit??

[Jeff Sauber]

Jeff Have I somehow offended you? First off I said I would be doing an "article" which I have been working on, and am finishing the text up as I type. today or tomorrow it will be sent to the magazine for publication. As far as leaving you hanging, I don't know about you, but I work for a living and have a family. with all else I do I think scratch building a wheel in a week's worth of spare time is pretty good. I'm sorry if I didn't wave my magic wand and fulfill your need for instant gratification.

Instant grat? Where the hell do you see my asking for instant grat?

All I asked was that you start sharing the tutorial with us here. I never demanded that you finish it in it's entirety right away.....Sheeeeeesh.

Many of us asked here to see what you have in mind and to share some info, and yet two weeks go by with no follow ups. I understand that you want to see and admire your handy work in print in the mag, but you could also share the info in the tips and tricks section.

You're not getting paid or have signed a contract to do the article exclusively for the mag, so you could post it here a little at a time as you go. Alot of us choose to use this forum as a "mag" instead of the print version. At this point in time I don't even suscribe to the print version of MCM. I use the forum.

Just think, In the time you have spent arguing back and forth on this stupid thread you could have had at least 2 decent installments in the tips section by now.

Good day, Sir.

Edited June 8, 2010 by J. Sauber

[droogie]

The market for highly detailed car model kits of subjects that appeal to mainstream US car modelers at prices they are willing to pay doesn't exist. Never has, never will.

[Darin Bastedo]

Instant grat? Where the hell do you see my asking for instant grat?

You're not getting paid or have signed a contract to do the article exclusively for the mag, so you could post it here a little at a time as you go. Alot of us choose to use this forum as a "mag" instead of the print version. At this point in time I don't even suscribe to the print version of MCM. I use the forum.

Actually they do pay for articals, but that is beside the point. If everyone did as you suggest, the magazine would have no content, and the magazine would cease to exist, as would the forum.

as far as wanting to know what I have planned I believe I indicated the wheel that would be replicated. as far as posting it in the tips section, I guess the magazine's paying readers will get the information first.

[highway]

The tone of tour post also makes it sound as though there's something inherently wrong with, again, as you put it, "MODIFIED REISSUED kits," and that's not the case, either. They're a fact of life in the model kit industry, have been for years and are even more important today given the economic realties of the business. In fact, it's no secret that new-tool subjects are often chosen based on the number of possibilities they offer for future variations.

There is NOTHING WRONG with either straight or modified reissues, and if I had a problem with them, I WOULDN'T BE BUILDING!!! I was simply explaining to Darin most (and I did say MOST in the post you quoted) are based on old molds, they are not new kits. If I had a problem with reissues, I would have neither the 70 Boss 429 (early 2000s issue) or the "new" 70 Mach 1 Mustang, because I have been in the hobby long enough to see from the box art photos that this Mustang was the same is the original 1980s Boss 429 I received as a birthday present at 10 years old in 1986! I loved the kit then, and still love it today!

[Jeff Sauber]

Actually they do pay for articals, but that is beside the point. If everyone did as you suggest, the magazine would have no content, and the magazine would cease to exist, as would the forum.

as far as wanting to know what I have planned I believe I indicated the wheel that would be replicated. as far as posting it in the tips section, I guess the magazine's paying readers will get the information first.

Oh please, You're not getting paid squat for the article and you know it.....The printed magazine isn't going to suddenly fail because you were asked to post the article here as well. Enough with the spin doctoring and diversionary mumbo jumbo. Stop!! just Stop!!

Either post the tutorial or don't...Quite frankly may dear, at this point, I don't give a darn.

[Jordan White]

Enough with the spin doctoring and diversionary mumbo jumbo. Stop!! just Stop!!

Hey now, they're a great alt. rock band!

[Darin Bastedo]

Oh please, You're not getting paid squat for the article and you know it.....The printed magazine isn't going to suddenly fail because you were asked to post the article here as well. Enough with the spin doctoring and diversionary mumbo jumbo. Stop!! just Stop!!

Either post the tutorial or don't...Quite frankly may dear, at this point, I don't give a darn.

Wow could you be any more rude? First of all I subscibe to this magazine as I not only enjoy the read, but believe in supporting our host. I would be very upset if I got my magazine in the mailbox and everything I read in it I saw on the forum three months earlier. To come on the magazine's forum and through a hissy fit because you aren't getting what you want, when you want it and for free is a slap in the face to our host.

Secondly denying the magazine content in favor of posting it here, encourages people like you who "choose to use this forum as a "mag" instead of the print version" to not buy the cow because they are getting their milk for free. For the price of a couple of model kits you can read the magazine for a whole year. why not support our host and subscribe. I'm sure gregg would appreciate it.

I have said my peace, so since you don't "give a darn" I consider this matter closed.

[highway]

Hey now, they're a great alt. rock band!

I wouldn't know about that, it's not my style of music, but I know this thread is turning into a great

[Jeff Sauber]

Wow could you be any more rude? First of all I subscibe to this magazine as I not only enjoy the read, but believe in supporting our host. I would be very upset if I got my magazine in the mailbox and everything I read in it I saw on the forum three months earlier. To come on the magazine's forum and through a hissy fit because you aren't getting what you want, when you want it and for free is a slap in the face to our host.

Secondly denying the magazine content in favor of posting it here, encourages people like you who "choose to use this forum as a "mag" instead of the print version" to not buy the cow because they are getting their milk for free. For the price of a couple of model kits you can read the magazine for a whole year. why not support our host and subscribe. I'm sure gregg would appreciate it.

I have said my peace, so since you don't "give a darn" I consider this matter closed.

Delusional much? Good Lord son, I think a substantial med adjustment may be in order.

Sorry, but I have to LOL @ you acting as if you're some big, hot shot, builder & author, who is in great demand......

"people like me"... you say.

Your arrogance is strong young Jedi. I think you must assume that I'm some sort of inexperienced little newb who is opening up his first kit and doesn't know jack about the hobby.

Get off your high horse, Mate..... You got a long way to go till you become the next Tim Boyd, Bob Downie, Alex Kustov, Clay Kemp, or any other established contributor....Now take a deep breath, it'll all be ok.

[Harry P.]

In regards to the "Jeff vs. Darin Steel Cage Death Match" that we've seen unfolding here, allow me to add my 2¢...

First of all... I agree 100% with Darin's attitude regarding supporting the magazine.

Obviously Jeff (and anyone else) is free to use this forum for free, without having to pay for it, and without having to subscribe to the magazine. This forum is offered as a "freebie," but it's important to remember that revenue generated by the magazine via subscriptions and hobby shop sales is what makes this site possible! So in effect, everyone who uses this site for free and doesn't buy the magazine is basically benefiting from those of you who do pay for the magazine. So Jeff, maybe you need to remember that, before you rip into Darin for supporting the magazine and deciding to submit his material to the magazine before he posts it here for everyone else.

As said, this forum wouldn't even be here if it wasn't for the magazine's revenue paying for it!

This forum is free, it's available to anyone who wants to join, and there's never any charge. But try to remember how that's made possible...

[gbdolfans]

Harry,Pat or Gregg,

Please feel free to lock this one down.I was only trying to open a topic on what I thought was an idea I had.I am sorry for it going in the direction it did.

It is apparent that there are strong feelings on many matters.

Thanks to everyone that contributed to the idea this thread had.

Many good points were made!!

[Harry P.]

Next thing you'll tell us is that supporting PBS MCM is tax-deductible. "This forum is made possible by the support of viewers like you."

P.S....how many subscriptions does it take to get the tote bag????

Notice we do not hold "pledge drives" here... the freeloaders can continue on guilt-free...

[Harry P.]

For a very reasonable $200 pledge you get the magazine subscription, the tote bag, and a date with Gregg...

Operators are standing by to take your call...

[highway]

For a very reasonable $200 pledge you get the magazine subscription, the tote bag, and a date with Gregg...

Operators are standing by to take your call...

I'd take the subscription and the tote bag, but I'm not that sure about the date with Gregg!! Does the date come with free airfare!?!?

[gbdolfans]

For a very reasonable $200 pledge you get the magazine subscription, the tote bag, and a date with Gregg...

Operators are standing by to take your call...

HARRY,you mean that you will pay us $200 for that??? Surly you don't mean we pay you for a date w/Gregg. :D

Edited June 9, 2010 by gbdolfans

[jbwelda]

ok let me observe that this went from a decent thread about something of interest to modelers, to a *itch fest between at least two people who should take it to email to a worthless bunch of twitter banter about some kind of public service.

it is a #1 example of how this place is going to c*r*a*p on a fast freight train.

now go ahead, tell me to love it or leave it. i dare you.

maybe "moderators" should start moderating and either deleting posts or warning off-topic or thread-hijacking specialists they will be invited to succeed elsewhere. and then follow through.

just a suggestion.

back to the topic...i think revel-ogram and amt are both putting out excellently detailed kits for mid 20$ and that seems like a bargain. personally i am willing to spend up to a hundred for a really well detailed, well engineered kit, but rarely find them. most of the tamiya super kits these days are what 60 - 80$, and look good built up but are not what i really call "detailed" and i have a hard time laying out the bread for them. but if it has detailed motor and compartment, good interior, decent body, some photoetch where it makes sense, good decals either accurately reproducing a known car or just good artwork and sponsor decals, and preferably multi build options and extra parts, then i dont have a problem laying the money out for one, and that would be up to probably the high tamiya asking price.

[Darin Bastedo]

Delusional much? Good Lord son, I think a substantial med adjustment may be in order.

Sorry, but I have to LOL @ you acting as if you're some big, hot shot, builder & author, who is in great demand......

"people like me"... you say.

Your arrogance is strong young Jedi. I think you must assume that I'm some sort of inexperienced little newb who is opening up his first kit and doesn't know jack about the hobby.

Get off your high horse, Mate..... You got a long way to go till you become the next Tim Boyd, Bob Downie, Alex Kustov, Clay Kemp, or any other established contributor....Now take a deep breath, it'll all be ok.

I never claimed to be a hot shot or anything other than a subscriber and a modeler who is willing to share with other modeler's a small morsel of information I hadn't seen shared before. it's my way of trying to give back to the hobby. I've been a reader of Scale Auto, Car Modeler and Model Cars Magazine since the titles were started, and have learned a great deal from them over the years. I simply want to give back some.

I have shared (usually in my in progress posts on this and other boards) techniques I use to do what I do, This however was a vary complex technique that I thought would make a good article, and Harry agreed to see what I come up with. I have no delusions that the printing of one article will some how catapult me to fame and fortune.

Lastly I know perfectly well who you are and what you are capable of. I have seen and admire your work. You do amazing scratch building yourself. I have no problem with you as a modeller. It is your people skills that I have an issue with.

From now on I will simply keep any ideas about future articles to myself and hopefully avoid ugly situation like this from occuring.

I wish you the best. Good Day Sir.

[highway]

back to the topic...i think revel-ogram and amt are both putting out excellently detailed kits for mid 20$ and that seems like a bargain.

There are some nice kits by both, but come on! There are a lot of, especially AMT, reissues that were not worth the 1-2 dollar price tag 30 and 40 years ago! If you want to waste $20 or more on some of that junk, go for it, but I have better kits to spend money on!

Edited June 9, 2010 by highway

[Darin Bastedo]

There are some nice kits by both, but come on! There are a lot of, especially AMT, reissues that were not worth the 1-2 dollar price tag 30 and 40 years ago! If you want to waste $20 or more on some of that junk, go for it, but I have better kits to spend money on!

I agree, some of the old AMT kits are not exactly state of the art any more (if they ever were) That is why I'm glad to see Kits like revell's 69 Nova kit. It's a much better kit than the old AMT 72 Nova ever was. That said The AMT nova was still one of my favourate kits growing up.

[droogie]

How about a survey asking what 1/25 scale kits people would pay $ 100 plus for if they came with resin, photo etch, pre-cut masks, multiple options, etc.?

[Darin Bastedo]

How about a survey asking what 1/25 scale kits people would pay $ 100 plus for if they came with resin, photo etch, pre-cut masks, multiple options, etc.?

because the what kit do you want suveys for some inexplicable reason always end up resulting in the 1973 Pontiac Grand Am winning...lol

[Zoom Zoom]

because the what kit do you want suveys for some inexplicable reason always end up resulting in the 1973 Pontiac Grand Am winning...lol

And as much as I'd love that kit (and I would buy several), I'm not at all interested in it being a $100 super-duper with white metal sprinkles on top product. $28.99 by Moebius with 1990's Revell-level detail and fidelity, sign me up.

I'm a typical car modeler. I like what I like, but I'm pretty cheap thrifty.

[Modelmartin]

I have paid up to $200. for a kit of the right subject and the right level of detail. I have also turned down free kits of subjects I could not care less about, regardless of quality. I did't want it or need it.

[Zoom Zoom]

IMO, the '73 Grand Am would have been a much better, and more sensible, subject for Trumpeter to have kitted than the '78 Monte Carlo. However, looking at the bright side, if Trumpeter HAD kitted the Grand Am, the kit probably would have sucked beyond all comprehension, so, it's probably best they didn't do it!

You said a mouthful! They're the last company I want to touch a subject that I want. Thankfully, they seem adept at choosing subjects that I could pretty much care less about. No biggie...even building like a madman I can't keep up w/all the good stuff that I do want that is managing to debut.

[Darin Bastedo]

there are several models in my collection I have spent big bucks on based solely on the quality and subject matter...

Aardvark's Firebird III Multimedia kit around $100

Historic racing Miniatures Cobra daytona Coupe $185

Both were must haves and in the case of the Firebird III IIRC I pre-ordered mine the day it was annouced. niether kit disappointed either. Sometimes you really do get what you pay for.

Edited June 9, 2010 by Darin Bastedo