I wonder if we do the right thing in our praise...

[Tradeshowjoe]

To be honest with you guys, I come to this site because it is a bit more "realistic' than the other site I spend time on. There is more of an "edge" here. At least regarding how people really feel about your work. I like that. The other site has a lot of the back patting pandering going on, sometimes it just kills me. It makes me wonder if the comments made about my stuff are realistic or not. I am a bit surprised to hear so many people here say they just "keep quiet". I always want to be called on anything I need to improve or may have missed. If not why would I spend the time to post a picture?

That said, I do try to look at the profile page of the poster in question before forming an opinion and posting it. It helps to know who you are speaking to, this applies no matter the situation, subject, or location (virtual or actual) in life.

[Darin Bastedo]

I have given up dispensing advice in the public forum and have started simply sending a PM to the builder. It seems these days there are certain modelers on this site who have decided that they need to debate evrerything whether they know what they are talking about or not, so now I don't give them the chance. this keeps things from going from a simple one post tip about paint from becoming a 6 page debate on who's right and whose wrong.

I also try to reserve my comments to the in progress stuff where it can still be fixed.

[DRG]

I have not built any models in more years than some of you are old and have just gotten back into model building. I have perused the pages of this forum for a couple of months now and have yet to see a model that wasn't of good quality. Some of the work that is done simply amazes me as it sure wasn't that way back in the day. Mom's sewing basket provided spark plug wires, fishing tackle box provided battery cables.

Now I look at the work being done to-day and hesitate to post anything that I build simply because it WILL NOT be up to the standard that most of you work to. For instance I am working on a Five Window Coupe right now and yes there are mistakes, I am aware of them. There is no detailing, a simple paint it and build it model. But I am going to keep building and keep trying. Will I ever get as good as some of you, no, I'm to darn old now.

We need to encourage people that build as this hobby appears to be dieing a slow death.

[Harry P.]

Now I look at the work being done to-day and hesitate to post anything that I build simply because it WILL NOT be up to the standard that most of you work to. For instance I am working on a Five Window Coupe right now and yes there are mistakes, I am aware of them. There is no detailing, a simple paint it and build it model. But I am going to keep building and keep trying. Will I ever get as good as some of you, no, I'm to darn old now.

There's nothing wrong with being a member here and not posting your work. We have plenty of members who never post their own work, for whatever reason. That's ok... you can participate here in any way you like. There's no rule here that says you have to post pictures of your work, but in my opinion, if someone does decide to post their work, it's only fair for the rest of the members to be able to talk about it.

Like I said before... if any member doesn't want their work commented on, that's fine... simply don't post your work. But if a member does post pictures, commentary from others is to be expercted, not discouraged!

[philo426]

Yes but if you don't post pics of your work,then you are not getting the most out of the forum.

[Railfreak78]

Sounds like people should build models and stop expecting everyone to be perfect. Don't like a model? Don't comment. People that do like it will. Want to offer advice? Do it well like... Hey I like the color on your car but it looks a little rough.. What kind of paint is it? Maybe let them explain it. The deduction that people only want praise from using lines like " this is the first time I tried.... " Is crazy. I did that with my 1st BMF job on my Cuda but I certainly did not ask for people that did not like it to say they did. If anyone thinks I do something wrong I'd like to know like Highway said. So I don't do it again. Then again I can take it too some cant. This is just my 2 cents lol. Oh and speaking of.... Why did you guys NOT let me know I had the ends of the big round white tank on my ECTO-1A flipped around on the wrong sides???? I count on you guys

[highway]

Oh and speaking of.... Why did you guys NOT let me know I had the ends of the big round white tank on my ECTO-1A flipped around on the wrong sides???? I count on you guys

Maybe because I just found that thread today and started watching it, and because I have never built one yet!!

[Karmodeler2]

I really like the "Shooting Gallery" idea.

I'd be more than willing to post my work in a format such as that.

Jim,

I agree with you and the original thinking that came up with it!!!

I see so much stuff here that is absolute ccrap......yeah, I said it, absolute ccrap. (spelled that way to get past the language gods) And the little followers that praise the thread starter on how great he builds are just as bad. Problem is, you never know how bad you build until you see something well done. The first time I saw something well done, it motivated me to be better on EVERY build and I still do it today.

These clowns will never improve because they are lied to, by well intentioned people, about how great they are.

There,

I feel better, and am off my soapbox. And am looking for the new folder called "Shooting Gallery" with a subscript that says "Honest Critique, tread with caution"

David

[Danno]

Why did you guys NOT let me know I had the ends of the big round white tank on my ECTO-1A flipped around on the wrong sides???? I count on you guys

Hey, Brian. You have the ends of the big round white tank on your Ecto-1a flipped around on the wrong sides.

[Danno]

Hey, Brian. You have the ends of the big round white tank on your Ecto-1a flipped around on the wrong sides.

I still think you're right on track with a great build in progress!

[cruz]

What if we rank or rate the models by numbers as we post, for example, 1 for poor, 2 for needs cleanliness, 3 for orange peel in the paint and so on, in this way, there is a standard etched in stone that people need to follow in order to do better work in the future. We can fill in the blanks in conjunction with the numbers to determine the quality of the build versus the number given....

[Pete J.]

What if we rank or rate the models by numbers as we post, for example, 1 for poor, 2 for needs cleanliness, 3 for orange peel in the paint and so on, in this way, there is a standard etched in stone that people need to follow in order to do better work in the future. We can fill in the blanks in conjunction with the numbers to determine the quality of the build versus the number given....

Frankly, that would be "contest Judging" and if you want to stir up a hornets nest, start a posting with that as a topic.

[Junkman]

OK, my .02$ worth.

Let's face it. This forum has attracted quite a few master modellers who do set the benchmark pretty high.

Many of us will never be near there for a multitude of reasons. We lack in either ability, time, resources, patience, equipment, imagination, creativity, or a combination of these.

But the vast majority of the builders in here make models which are at least to a standard that would attract a second glance at any model expo anywhere in the world.

All the above mentioned, welcome critizism, often even with a peppered dose of humour. Despite these good people are excellent modellers in anyone's book, they do have a very clear concept in which areas their weaknesses are and they strive for improvement. Everything is as it is supposed to be.

Then there are the 'others'. Crazed glue bombs with ill fitting wheels and totally unrealistic stance, basically a combination of everything that can be done wrong when building models. When you then write some critisism after several people lent their fake shoulder patting (I meanwhile book it under 'avoidance of controversy') the personal slagging starts. I can well understand the fake shoulder patting. Like anywhere else in this so-called modern world, fact, reason, and discussing these, has succumbed to political correctness. It's pathetic. And it doesn't help anyone. It does the opposite. It will forever prevent the 'bad' modellers from becoming 'good' modellers. It's no longer the strive for excellence (which seems to be something bad nowadays), it's the avoidance of debate because we are brainwashed into the believe that the 'weaker' must be protected from being 'picked on' by the 'stronger'. Where will this end if we just let it happen?

"Oh, you only write this about my models because I'm gay/black/jewish/muslim/what have you and you are a racist/sexist/homophobic/insensitive/judgemental (take your pick)".

No m8. I don't. I write it, because your models are rubbish. And entirely btw, this doesn't make my models any better either.

Edited July 26, 2010 by Junkman

[LoneWolf15]

Christian,

I believe we need to take up a collection to send you to take classes that will teach you not to hold back when speaking on how you really feel ! Well put my friend !

I have far better things to do then get into a donnybrooke with an idiot that wants to fight over a glue bomb build ! Mouth shut , ears open , when being given sound advice , seems to have faded into the black these days . It's not always the individual that posts their build that becomes the problem here . Simply stated , it's all of their buddies who come riding to the rescue that starts the flame wars ! Sad part of it all , they can't glue two pieces together themselves , let alone judge what is right or wrong with a build .

There is really no excuse for this these days . There is far too much information and educational tools available these days for these situations to exist. Shame on them for not taking advantage of it !

[Junkman]

You know, what I mean.

One one side it is this widespread inability to differentiate these days: when I critizise someone's models, I critzise his models and not him. Yet, I am being treated by some as if I did the latter.

Add to this the thought policing of the PC freaks on the other side: He builds bad models, hence he is a victim and must be protected from any form of critizism. Emotion, virtue and delivered -errm- wisdom(?) win over empirically established fact and deductive reasoning.

Unfortunately, this is so widespread today, that way too many people have given up telling the truth despite they know it and prefer to say the PC nonsense just to live in peace, since if they don't they will be denunciated or silenced by the PC crowd anyway. Debate Verboten!

[Danno]

It's not always the individual that posts their build that becomes the problem here . Simply stated , it's all of their buddies who come riding to the rescue that starts the flame wars ! Sad part of it all , they can't glue two pieces together themselves , let alone judge what is right or wrong with a build .

There is really no excuse for this these days . There is far too much information and educational tools available these days for these situations to exist. Shame on them for not taking advantage of it !

Amen, Don. I'm on the same page with you and with Christian.

And as this thread has demonstrated, all too many of us are hesitant or reluctant to offer constructive criticism for fear of being inundated with the attacking rants of the 'buddies' to whom you refer.

So, we remain silent too often while the cheerleaders heap empty & unwarranted praise on the clueless and skill-challenged who might otherwise actually benefit from hearing that more glue is not always better and that paint depth measured in phathoms and presenting 3-D texture is not always the 'best paint job ever.'

When truth and sincerity are rejected, or withheld in the first place, we all suffer.

My somewhat unpopular .02 worth.

[Foxer]

A lot of well thought out comments here and it all makes me feel even better about how much I like this forum. Nothing's perfect, but I believe the builders here all make it go much towards the P word! I'm not a prolific builder ,, it's been about 12 years since my last finish and a 10 year break. I retired 2 years ago and got back into it ... been building constantly since, though no completions. I think I enjoy the building TOO much to finish anything!

I HAVE made a number of posts as I hit problems and asked for thoughts and guidance. The members have floored me with their responses and help me overcome the problems without fail. Posts of builds from 10 years ago have been met with comments specific to the build comments along with suggestions for improvement on some of the less than stellar areas ... all given in sincerity.

I can't imagine posting even a small fraction anywhere else of what I do here.. and that's because everyone here makes me feel free to say or ask ANYTHING without fearing a Can of Spam.

ok, you can now continue on with this discussion.. I jsut had to get that out

Edited July 26, 2010 by Foxer

[Terry Sumner]

Amen, Don. I'm on the same page with you and with Christian.

And as this thread has demonstrated, all too many of us are hesitant or reluctant to offer constructive criticism for fear of being inundated with the attacking rants of the 'buddies' to whom you refer.

So, we remain silent too often while the cheerleaders heap empty & unwarranted praise on the clueless and skill-challenged who might otherwise actually benefit from hearing that more glue is not always better and that paint depth measured in phathoms and presenting 3-D texture is not always the 'best paint job ever.'

When truth and sincerity are rejected, or withheld in the first place, we all suffer.

My somewhat unpopular .02 worth.

Well as the OP, I must say I agree totally with your last post Danno. I can't begin to tell you guys how hesitant I was to even bring up this subject in the first place. I really thought I was going to be branded as a malcontent, then drawn, quartered, tarred, feathered and burned at the stake! I guess I just got sick of all the "good job, the paint is great, nice clean build" quotes when in fact those descriptors did not fit the model.

And I have to say that I am pleasantly surprised that this thread did not degenerate into the bowels of hell like I thought it might do. There has been some meaningful discussion of many points and it has not resorted to name calling, etc etc. Good job all!

[LoneWolf15]

While we're on the subject .....

Awhile back I picked up on another trend that twists me up a bit . When someone asks for advice and it is given , people come out of the woodwork to dispute said advice ! They then proceed to offer a mile long dissertation on how they feel it should be done , in their expert opinion.

This was beginning to create even more controversy , everybody wants to do battle . Who wants to even bother posting an answer when all they're going to get is grief about it . After awhile , I started going to some of these " experts " websites and Photo buckets to check out their work ! Expert builders , Uh , Uh , ! Posers , Oh Yeah ! Their work makes some of the glue bombs put up on these forums look like Best of Show winners !

What ratchets up my thermostat , the new guys follow their so called expert advice and run right into Murphy's threshing machine with no way to get out . As of late , when someone challenges what I post , I simply invite them to visit my website , come see me at the vending table or look at what I put on the show tables . My work is there for all to see , now , show me yours !

I have never claimed the word "expert" . I simply consider myself well versed in the hobby because of my experience , nothing more , nothing less . I am still learning , and believe me , I've learned alot since I joined this forum . For example , I recently started playing with the Pearl Ex additives , thanks to Gary Thompson and Mikey MC . Would have never known about about it if it were'nt for my two buddies !

We have alot of new guys coming back in to the hobby , some have money , some are on a shoestring budget . They all deserve the best possible advice we can give them , more importantly , the ability to back up what we put out there !

As the tatoo on my left shoulder states.... "Opera non Verba" , Latin for " Deeds not Words " This forum has more talent then anywhere I've thus encountered . It is mind boggling at times ! We need to be the place to come to for all of the answers , car modeling wise . There is too much talent here for it to be anything else !

Donn Yost

Lone Wolf Custom Painting

[Karmodeler2]

OK, my .02$ worth.

Let's face it. This forum has attracted quite a few master modellers who do set the benchmark pretty high.

Many of us will never be near there for a multitude of reasons. We lack in either ability, time, resources, patience, equipment, imagination, creativity, or a combination of these.

I have to say, Christian, that we all possess most of these. It is whether or not we take the time to hone them.

I would have NEVER thought that I would be at the level I am today, 35+ years from when I started. I would have NEVER thought that I would own a lathe and a mill and machine my own parts. Same with chroming my own brass parts, making molds and casting parts and the like. It is taking the time to learn things,(time management...like learning how to chrome stuff instead of watching something stupid on TV like American Idol); painting a model 23 times to get it right (patience and perfecting my painting ability), buying stuff second hand (equipment), hanging out with those who are creative and trying to learn from them and getting their input. You see, we all have the ability to build better. It is whether we choose to do so, or just accept the model the way it is. As Mark Moore says, "good enough" can always be better!

When I see a high bench mark, it inspires me to build better. Others, it causes them to turn and run. It is in this moment, that they, and I, have chosen what path we want to walk.

My closest friends in this hobby are some of the best. Their work inspires me to be a better modeler. Others are turned off by it. It's a choice.

David

[Steve Keck]

I have to agree whole-heartedly with David, aka, Karmodeler2.

In my opinion there are very few that frequent this board that do not have the potential to achieve the benchmark Junkman refers to. In my opinion what separates the "master modeler" from the rest is the choice David speaks about.

The one thing Junkman left off his list that I feel is the real catalyst is "desire". Add desire to the mix and the rest can all be overcome.

I don't always choose to do what it takes to reach the master modeler's benchmark. I may evaluate my work and recognize a flaw and choose not to fix it. I may decide to do an OOB build with only rattle can paint without resulting to enduring the polishing cloth's torture. The operative word is choice.

Years ago I chose a competitor to be my mentor. I joke that I told him of my choice years later. He jokes that he told me all he wanted me to know! He also told me he helped me because I applied what he offered. I've sought out (and continue to do so) the help of several of the "master modelers" here and they have all been very helpful. I guess that was their choice.

[Junkman]

Well as the OP, I must say I agree totally with your last post Danno. I can't begin to tell you guys how hesitant I was to even bring up this subject in the first place. I really thought I was going to be branded as a malcontent, then drawn, quartered, tarred, feathered and burned at the stake! I guess I just got sick of all the "good job, the paint is great, nice clean build" quotes when in fact those descriptors did not fit the model.

And I have to say that I am pleasantly surprised that this thread did not degenerate into the bowels of hell like I thought it might do. There has been some meaningful discussion of many points and it has not resorted to name calling, etc etc. Good job all!

I actually quite admire your courage. Yes, this could have backfired badly. It speaks well for this forum that it didn't. To the contrary, it triggered debate, something rarely seen these days.

And @ Karmodeler2: you are absolutely right. I should have used the word 'persistence' in my 'lack of' list and spoken for myself.

[corvox]

I'm new to building and really hope people wouldn't be afraid to tell me what I did wrong!

[Junkman]

I'm new to building and really hope people wouldn't be afraid to tell me what I did wrong!

It's usually people with your attitude who build models with nothing to nag about.

[Terror]

My best friend always bugs me with,I would have done this, statement.But I just chuckle now.Another one he uses,they didn't come like that.Mostley it's all in style,technique and great photos that sells a build on the net,I think.?..