1925 Chopped Model T Coupe UPDATE: 8-30-10

[Dennis Lacy]

Hey everyone! Haven't shared any projects in a long time, here is my newest: The chopped ‘25 T Coupe body from the recent AMT Double T release sitting proudly atop a pair of extensively modified Revell ‘32 frame rails. And to make it even cooler, I’m shoving a big motor in a small car: The corrected Ardun flathead from the most recent Revell ‘50 Ford Pickup. Mounted high in the chassis to keep the pan off the ground, filling every inch of available space between the radiator and firewall, valve covers and carburetors spilling out of the top and sides.

To construct the frame I started by cutting away everything that wasn’t the side rails of a Revell 32 frame. The insides of the ‘rails were cleaned up then they were carefully cold-bent to conform to the shape of the body, namely the inward sloping cowl sides. Once past the cowl the ‘rails were then bent back outward while still having a bit of taper towards the front. Once I was satisfied with the shape, the ‘rails were then taped securely to the bottom of the body with the front edge of the cowl lined up with the start of the cove in the side of them. Two temporary cross bars of Evergreen rectangular stock were super glued to bottoms of the ‘rails to hold them in position when they were un-taped from the body. From there I constructed a strong center X member using a piece of Evergreen for the main cross piece and sections of the X members found in any of Revell’s ‘40 Ford frames. The front of the rails were removed and a cross piece made from Evergreen was installed. The rear, kicked-up frame section was built entirely from a couple different sizes of Evergreen. The front engine mount risers were also made out of Evergreen pieces. I have yet to construct any front suspension mounts at this time but have a few ideas.

The rear axle / spring is going to be based around this piece from a first issue Lindberg ‘34 Pickup.

Mocked up with the rear axle / spring and wheels and tires. This is the final rear ride height and the front will only be a tick higher, so this is essentially how the car is going to lay. The rear wheels and tires are from the stock version of Revell’s ‘40 Standard Coupe. The whitewalls will be painted black in the end because I think real hot rods have black walls. The front tires are some super small old bias-ply types from the old tool of the Stone, Woods and Cook Willys. The front wheels are from Revell’s ‘50 Pickup.

Edited August 30, 2010 by Dennis Lacy

[Modlbldr]

Dennis-

Cool work so far. I like making frames like this. I may have to follow your idea to build a frame for a MPC Firetruck body that I have. Keep it up and keep us posted.

Later-

[MikeMc]

Dennis Lovin this idea.......IMHO do something to the rear of the frame in front of the tire......looks huge and blocky??

not sure if a taper or curve would work.....

[Dennis Lacy]

Dennis Lovin this idea.......IMHO do something to the rear of the frame in front of the tire......looks huge and blocky??

not sure if a taper or curve would work.....

Mike, thanks for the input. I will probably end up cutting the front corner at the same angle as the back edge of the kick-up. For now the chassis is still in the early stages so a clean up effort has yet to be made.

UPDATE:

Got the chassis up on all 4 wheels tonight - always a pivotal moment! Did some preliminary clean up on the rear axle seams and mold lines, fit some super cool resin early Ford brake plates (thanks Florian!) and made some wheel mounting hubs for the Revell ‘40 Ford wheels and tires to fit on. Up front I installed a flat plate the extends from the top side of the front of the frame for the Revell ‘32 kit axle to mount to. The spring was ground down until it was just 2 leafs thick to help get the front low. Some Revell ‘40 Ford brake plates were fit and I found that the spare wheel in the Revell ‘50 Ford Pickup comes with the center hole open and that the end of the axle snaps into it! Lucky for me, I had two ‘50 PU kits on-hand to rob the spares from.

And a couple pictures with the body mounted. Also shown is the modified Revell ‘32 radiator shell. The mounting area had 1/8†cut out of it allowing the shell to drop down farther on the frame. Then, I chopped it by 3/16†to get the top of it down even with the cowl on the body.

Now that the basics are in place it’s time to start filling in all the blanks!

[vizio93]

Coming along nicely, I like that big ole engine

[Dennis Lacy]

Dennis, love the big engine in a little car formula

just an idea or two regarding the frame. interior space is at a minimum in these cars you know probably better than most hot rod model builders. i wonder if you could gain some room by changing the shape of the rear rails a bit? if you cut the vertical part of the rails to match the angled support you should be able to gain some seat room i think. it will allow for an angled rear bulkhead and seat backs. the other part just for aesthetics is the end of the side rails in front of the rear tire. i wonder if matching the angle of the body there would make the frame and body flow together a bit?

Dave

Having just driven my '27 Roadster to work this morning, I can verify that T's do NOT have a lot of room to spare! I'm pretty sure I'm going to end up cutting the front corner off at the same angle as the gusset - like you suggested. I mostly left it like it is (for now) because the frame is nice and strong and will hold up better to being man-handled while I'm setting up the suspension and stuff. Once I get the chassis dialed-in and start building the floor and bulkhead it's gonna get sawed off. I think I'm going to add a cross brace at the top/front of the kick up once it's trimmed for added strength (if it were a real car it should have something there.)

I've noticed the end of the side rails need something too and was waiting to see if anyone else would say anything. I think your idea of cutting the edge at the same angle as the body is good and I'm probably going to do that.

Thanks for the input!

[Dennis Lacy]

UPDATE:

Got a late start at the bench tonight but it was still worthwhile. Finding a way to finish the ends of the frame rails has been on my brain for the last few days. Dave suggested that cutting the ends at an angle to match the cab would help things flow. Then, a guy on a different message board suggested moving the rear wheels forward so they would help cover the void in the side view. Truth be told I like where the rear wheels are because the axle centerline is in the center of the trunk section and to my eye this keeps everything back there balanced (you could accuse me of building too mathematically sometimes…) What started bugging me more than anything was the big nothing at the end of the frame rails. So I stared at this thing for an hour thinking then I remembered an idea I had for my 1:1 ‘27 Roadster on ‘32 rails which has a similar, but less abrupt situation because the frame is Z’ed and disappears into the turtle deck. So I whipped out some .080 x .250†Evergreen and made some faux filler panels that at first glance make it appear as though the frame continues rearward with a nice curve and angle up into the body.

Close up of the filler panel (both sides are done):

Standing back 50 feet, the frame appears continuous when in reality it’s BS:

[Dennis Lacy]

oh man, please dont move the rear wheels and axle forward. i know there are some that love the AMT chopped T with it's wacky proportions but i cant stand the thing. the biggest thing i really cant stand about that car is the body sitting back on the frame with the rear wheels tucked forward and the front with its over extended suicide front axle and wheels hanging way out there. to me it's absolutely horribly proportioned and just looks flat goofy. to me moving the rear axle back is one of the things that makes such a drastic improvement in how it looks. i think too pulling the front axle back as well just adds to that and makes everything so much better. T "buckets" look good with the body set back, T coupes not at all.

the frame extension looks good! i'd still recommend cutting a matching angle into it that matches the slope of the body. just a thought here but if you view the car from it's side profile it would make the frame and body flow together and like they were meant to be.

Dave

Hey Dave, you don't have to worry about the rear wheels going anywhere. The situation you describe with the 25 T kit is exactly how I feel.

Looking at this thing some more, I'm thinking of trimming out some small triangle-shaped pieces and inserting them at the end of the cove making the end of it follow the same line as the body right there where it transitions from the cab area to the trunk. I think at that point with all the angles jiving it will be right-on.

[MikeMc]

Between You and Dave It looks 100% now....and with the small pieces I think you'll have all angles covered!!

[Dennis Lacy]

Thanks Mike!

UPDATE:

I love being on vacation! Got the rear axle / suspension pretty much sorted today. Only thing left to do is connect the torque tube to the transmission. I made new support rods that run from the axle tubes to the torque tube using the front wishbones from a Revell ‘40 Coupe. Cut the spring off and squeezed them together slightly to clear the kick-up on the frame then installed .040†plastic pins at all 3 points which fit into corresponding holes in the axle. Also added rear lever shocks using front shocks, again from the ‘40 Coupe. The molded-on links turned out to be just the right length and connect to the rear spring hangers as original Fords are.

Rear axle with new support rods mocked up in frame. Note that the support rods match the angle of the rear “legs†of the X-member.

Mocked up with the lever shocks in place. (The sides of the trunk will need to be relieved around the shocks for it to fit back on.) I also trimmed the forward corners of the kick-up at the same angle as the rear edge. You can also see what the frame filler pieces look like without the body on.

[Dennis Lacy]

UPDATE:

Got some more stuff done on the T. Modified a pair of hairpin radius rods from AMT’s ‘41 Woody street rod. The ends have been drilled and have .040†plastic rod installed which fits into corresponding holes in the frame rails.

I also cut another 1/8†out of the radiator shell for a total of 5/16â€. With the first chop it was still just a tick higher than the cowl and I can’t stand that on real cars. Now the top of the shell is noticeably lower and also in much better proportion size-wise with the small T body.

I made cutouts in the sides of the trunk for the lever shocks. In the picture the cutout looks like it’s not centered… and it isn’t! I didn’t catch it until I loaded the photos but the body slid forward a little when I was moving it around.

And another full mock-up with all the latest stuff.

[Smart-Resins]

Nice progress so far! I like its real hot rod stance!

[mopar01lee]

This thing is awsome man. Exalent work. I'm lookin to see this done.

[Brett Barrow]

Looking good!! I was not aware that the Ardun set-up had been corrected in the '50 Pickup, I'll have to "pickup" one soon!!! Sorry for the bad pun!

[Dennis Lacy]

Thanks for nice comments guys! I'm really having a great time with this project.

Looking good!! I was not aware that the Ardun set-up had been corrected in the '50 Pickup, I'll have to "pickup" one soon!!! Sorry for the bad pun!

Haha, no worries on the pun. The latest version of the '50 PU has a yellow truck on the box with big billet-style wheels and red graphics on the door. The updated engine has the propper intake and exhaust manifolds now. Also, I've never held the heads from the incorrect version in my hand but have seen pictures and it looks like Revell changed the engraving to make the valve covers look better. It's definately worth getting now.

[vizio93]

Keeps looking better and better every time I see it !!! Keep the updates a-comin'

[Dennis Lacy]

UPDATE:

Had a good day and night at the bench. Decided that with the chassis coming along it was time to make the floor panels. Took a couple tries after design changes but here is the final product made from .040 Evergreen sheet and a narrowed driveshaft tunnel cut from the floor pan of a Revell 37 Sedan.

The floor panel installed in the frame. I also made a filler panel for the rear frame area.

Rear axle assembly installed. V-shaped relief is needed to clear axle to torque tube support rods.

Engine installed with floor in place. The bell housing and transmission will remain exposed on the finished car. Seems odd but is somewhat common in the vintage hot rod world.

Proposed seat is from Revell 32 Roadster. Has been narrowed by cutting off both ends. Had to put a relief in the center for the tunnel. If I keep this seat I will use plastic sheet to fill in the ends.

Made a molded-in firewall from .040 Evergreen sheet.

Edited August 20, 2010 by Dennis Lacy

[MikeMc]

TOP SHELF DENNIS!!!!!!!!!!

Wonderful...keep it coming!!

[crazyjim]

Watching your WIP is really neat. I'm trying to learn some things too.

[Dennis Lacy]

Thanks for the comments, guys!

Watching your WIP is really neat. I'm trying to learn some things too.

That's what it's all about, right? I've lost count of how many sweet ideas I've picked up from other peoples work!

[Dennis Lacy]

UPDATE:

I had hoped to get a lot more done on this project over the past week but that all changed when I decided to bury a brand new #11 blade into the tip of my thumb. It was pretty deep and I *probably* should have gone to get stitches (like my GF wanted me to do) but I’m really stubborn. Anyways, it’s closing slowly but surely with no signs of infection. I don’t have lock-jaw either!

On to the model. The ARDUN heads from Revell’s ‘50 Pickup come with the valve covers molded to them. I wanted to be able to paint the head portion and valve cover portion different colors and was turned off to a bunch of tedious masking so using the backside of a new #11 blade (yes, that blade!) I cut along the edges until the heads and covers were separate pieces. In the upper portion of the picture below the chrome heads / valve covers can be seen as they come out of the box.

I used the over-the-frame headers from AMT’s “Phantom Vicky†street rod kit as a starting point. They were de-chromed and I added alignment pins and flanges. The headers themselves still need a little cleanup.

Heads are permanently installed on the engine block and headers mocked in place with frame / body.

Rolling mockup to check “the lookâ€. Looks good to me!