Eric Stone Posted October 18, 2011 Share Posted October 18, 2011 i have no issues with flat/satin paint jobs. But rust is to steel as cancer is to flesh - its to be cut out and ground away - not showcased. x2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chuck Most Posted October 18, 2011 Share Posted October 18, 2011 Rat rod and flat/satin finishes do not NOT necessarily go together. Here's a rat rod with shiny paint! And another- What's my point? Uh.... well.... I guess I'm just trying to back up what Jim is saying, but come at it from another angle. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Cranky Posted October 18, 2011 Share Posted October 18, 2011 Rob is right, Jim, I didn't mean to imply that Billy built rat bikes. I meant to say he thought outside of the box and gave his bikes a particularly COOL look. Which is what I think most of the rat rodders are trying to do, give or take an extra ounce of eye-balling engineering! We are having a great conversation, so let's keep it going. Chuck, I am in awe of how many builds you have. I think it gives me an idea for a new thread that I think will be quite a bit of fun! Stay tuned in! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whale392 Posted October 19, 2011 Share Posted October 19, 2011 (edited) Rob and Cranky, perhaps I did read a slight bit into Crankys' post (given his penchant for rust and gunk and all). Couple that with the prevailing wind of this thread being whether rats are considered junk or primered masterpieces and one begins to get an overall mental pigeon-hole going. For that I apologize. People like Billy and Warren Lane, Indian Larry, Milwaukee Iron, Chico, and Zero Engineering impart art and innovation into everything they built/build; be it a full-on shiny build or a Satin Queen. They really didn't fit into the whole 'Rat' thing, even though some of Zeros' bikes were Suede and bobbed! To me, the whole 'Rat' movement has gone beyond the 'Anti-billet' it started as and has become a cartoon caricature of itself. Todays' Rats are sometimes just downright scary in their lack of safety and overall construction rigidity. Rat for the sake of Rat is deadly. Now, if there is a Rat/Primered class at a show, good on it. But should they always have their own category, no. Edited October 19, 2011 by whale392 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jantrix Posted October 19, 2011 Author Share Posted October 19, 2011 Todays' Rats are sometimes just downright scary in their lack of safety and overall construction rigidity. Rat for the sake of Rat is deadly. Very true. I can't abide that myself. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chuck Most Posted October 19, 2011 Share Posted October 19, 2011 Very true. I can't abide that myself. What I really can't stand is when that type of 'engineering' (if you can call it that) is glorified, which it is in some circles. I don't care how shiny or shabby it looks. If it isn't safe, it should not be used on public roads. I don't want to drive it, and I certainly don't want to share the road with it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MachinistMark Posted October 19, 2011 Share Posted October 19, 2011 Here's a rat rod with shiny paint! And another- What's my point? Uh.... well.... I guess I'm just trying to back up what Jim is saying, but come at it from another angle. youd have a point if either one of those fit into the popularly conceived definition of a rat rod.... Poor construction/finish! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jantrix Posted October 19, 2011 Author Share Posted October 19, 2011 I'd let it go Chuck. He's got it in his head that only something rusty and unsafe/badly built is a rat rod and he's not gonna come around to our definition. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chuck Most Posted October 19, 2011 Share Posted October 19, 2011 I'd let it go Chuck. He's got it in his head that only something rusty and unsafe/badly built is a rat rod and he's not gonna come around to our definition. What did he say, Rob? I blocked him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jantrix Posted October 19, 2011 Author Share Posted October 19, 2011 LOL. Never mind then. Nothing important. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Cranky Posted October 19, 2011 Share Posted October 19, 2011 Yes, I agree that most rat rods are probably unsafe to drive, but probably also were all the crazy custom Big Daddy did . . . it's all about how the thing looks. Turn to Lowriders. Most of them were not built to be driven, but to sit in an eternal show. Yes, I do have a penchant (I like that word) for rust and gunk and junk, but that's only because I think they belong as an integral part of the hobby. As a builder I like to "refresh" by doing them, and then I can turn my attention to the tense-nerves of a shiny paint job. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Cranky Posted October 19, 2011 Share Posted October 19, 2011 By the way, I have a prediction to make, which is that this thread will reach 30 pages AND AND AND AND we will still be discussing civilly, and I love that. Express your opinions, it's all RUST, I mean, it's all GOOD! LOL! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MachinistMark Posted October 19, 2011 Share Posted October 19, 2011 Well rob and chuck i hate to hbreak it to ya, but the majority of the hot rodding world seem to agree on the point that rat rods are only "something rusty and unsafe/badly built" and that oyur definition of them seems to include the newer style of Traditional hot rods. Ok, I was thinking on this,and I think what i mean is thar rat rods are not so much a style of their own, but an execution of a style - traditionally styled hot rods. MOST of the owners of these types of hot rods (the well built/finished) trad. rods view the term as an insult. rat rod: same stance, same style - different build quality = not a rat rod: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1320wayne Posted October 19, 2011 Share Posted October 19, 2011 (edited) Wow Mark, you seem to have one idea stuck in your head regarding the term "Rat Rod" and no matter what are unwilling to budge. That's ignorance personified. Here is the best example of the overall definition of the term Rat Rod. A rat rod is a style of hot rod or custom car that, in most cases, imitates (or exaggerates) the early hot rods of the 40s, 50s, and 60s. It is not to be confused with the somewhat closely related "traditional" hot rod, which is an accurate re-creation or period-correct restoration of a hot rod from the same era. Most rat rods appear "unfinished" (whether they actually are or not), with just the bare essentials to be driven. The rat rod is the visualization of the idea of function over form. Rat rods are meant to be driven, not shown off. Sometimes the customization will include using spare parts, or parts from another car altogether. Now, the only contradiction to the statement above is that even though it states that these cars were not built to be shown off at some point and time, within the past decade or so, or even earlier, someone decided to attend a car show with their "rat rod" and apparently it was considered so rediculous that someone would attend with such a creation that it couldn't help but draw attention. The rest is history, so to speak. Go to any local or national car show and tell me what vehicles garner the most attention. Yeah, there's going to be some awesome ultra rods (uh oh, another car term to start a debate over) that people will flock to but someone is bound to show up with some wild "rat rod" that will have crowds around it all day long. For example: Last years Turkey Rod Run, one of the biggest car shows in the nation. Not much rust to speak of, a huge mixture of parts from various sources and very much streetable. Terminology? Rat Rod! Same show.......actually, I think the car in the first picture was flat towing this one. The only rust that I can spot is on the exhaust and some around the grill shell. Again, a mixture of different parts, some maybe even homemade. Defintion? Rat Rod! Same show.........see a trend yet? This guy just parked and look at the crowd already. Rat Rod! Turkey Rod Run from 2009. This shot took almost 20 minutes before I could get enough people out of the way for a good shot. Heck, I don't even know what this as far as make but I can tell you that it is a RAT ROD! And it's very much streetable. Out of all of the shows I've ever attended I have never seen a rat rod that didn't drive onto the show grounds. Yes, I will agree, that some builders go a bit overboard and create something that appears that it shouldn't be driven but that is their choice. All I'm trying to say is that some folks general perception of the term rat rod just seems to be way off base. It is it's own class of vehicle, like it or not. I look at the term as this. A rat rod is like an impressionist painting. You don't always get it but the graphic intoxication keeps you looking for a while. And, like I already stated above. In regards to these types of builds and model contests. It doesn't matter (and this is merely my opinion) what is entered, whether it's a flat finished paint job or something shiny, all entries should/can be judged together in the same category if the judges base their findings on the merits of the build. If it's a shiny finish what is the quality and how much work went into acheiving it. If it's a rusty or primered finish the same conditions apply. What is the quality (because it is far too often assumed that a primer finish is the easiest thing to do) and how much work went into acheiving it. That's the basis for this post, not neccessarily the arguement of what constitutes a rat rod. Edited October 19, 2011 by 1320wayne Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tonioseven Posted October 19, 2011 Share Posted October 19, 2011 Not sure what you'd call it but I sure as heck thought it was cool... It's something I'd love to do a model of one day. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tonioseven Posted October 19, 2011 Share Posted October 19, 2011 (edited) This is cool too but again, I'm not sure how you'd classify it... Same car, different body... I'll eventually build a model similar to these and am curious as to what category to enter it into for a contest. Edited October 19, 2011 by Tonioseven Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony N Posted October 19, 2011 Share Posted October 19, 2011 Wow, do I have a different view on shiny vs flat. I grew up in the 60's and 70's and I remember lots of primer-ed cars. There was a saying we jokingly used "primer American racing colors" lots of local street racers cars were primer only and some had rust on them too. Most of the money the guy had went under the hood on go fast parts, so looks wasn't as important. I use to go to the Fremont drag strip in the 70s and early 80s and I always had a soft spot for primer-ed cars. I was rooting for the underdog. You know the guy with less money or backing, beating the factory racer. So to me the whole Rat Rod thing isn't really new Its just got a name now, love it or not it's always been here. So my next model could be a 62 Chevy II Nova. My friend had a Primer Gray with a 365 horse 327 in it with a four speed. Tony Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Cranky Posted October 19, 2011 Share Posted October 19, 2011 Thanks for the working definition, Wayne. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Junkman Posted October 19, 2011 Share Posted October 19, 2011 (edited) I can only hope that the Rat Rod movement will fade into oblivion as a fad of the early millennium, like billet did two decades earlier. I had seen enough Rat Rods in my life after I saw the first one. Now having written that, I admire how plausibly some people in here can translate this Rat Rod look into a model. If I was a judge at a contest, I'd probably give this more weight than yet another three coats of clear followed by two hours of using a polishing kit. Edited October 19, 2011 by Junkman Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jordan White Posted October 19, 2011 Share Posted October 19, 2011 I've said it before and I'll say it again, every genre and class of vehicles has their share of unsafe/unsafe looking builds. As to the point at hand, I think flat finishes should be included with the shiny ones. I do know that if you don't get the flat finish right, it will look uneven or even have the grain look out of scale. Getting flat to sit right can be plenty of work, except you don't have to do the work of buffing out a polish. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chuck Most Posted October 19, 2011 Share Posted October 19, 2011 I've said it before and I'll say it again, every genre and class of vehicles has their share of unsafe/unsafe looking builds. Amen, brother. Sheez, I've seen more unsafe second-gen Camaros in my neck of the woods than unsafe rat rods. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Johnny Posted October 19, 2011 Share Posted October 19, 2011 They had a 7 year old girl end up with 10 stitches after catching her arm on a rusty fender on one at a local show here! There a at least two here in town that have been taken off the street by the police for being unsafe vehicles!(kinda obvious when parts are falling off as it runs down the street! ) There are others tat those guys say aren't really Rat Rods, I guess because they aren't falling apart! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jantrix Posted October 19, 2011 Author Share Posted October 19, 2011 I've said it before and I'll say it again, every genre and class of vehicles has their share of unsafe/unsafe looking builds. Great point. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sbk Posted October 20, 2011 Share Posted October 20, 2011 At a model contest, (especially IPMS), execution is what matters. I don't always agree with that, & I prefer to look at how much work the builder did, but, on the other hand, it has to be done well. Paint finish is one of those things. It doesn't matter if it's shiny or not, the finish needs to be done well. With all that said, I was still surprised when this one won "best paint" at the same show Eric Stone was talking about. Like my friends said, "Hey, it's an IPMS show, what do you expect?" LOL. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Cranky Posted October 20, 2011 Share Posted October 20, 2011 Steve, great to see you (and hear from you) and for chiming in. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.