MPG estimates vs. reality

[moparmagiclives]

I'm holding my breath now until someone sues Nike because they didn't jump as high as its advertised that "someone may"....it going to happen I know it.?

[moparmagiclives]

When cars are tested for mileage, they are run at a standard. This can be 55 MPH or 65 MPH and you may get the advertised mileage. You're not going to get it at 70 or 75 MPH. I've exceeded the listed 32 MPG in my Caliber but it was at 60-65 MPH and I got 33 MPG. She probably won on default when no one from Honda showed up.

The first time I ever drove one was to a training class in Portland, it sucked up a full tank from tri cities to bigs ( I'm going to assume you all know where that is for the sake of this story) and I thought to myself...." how do they expect something this small to sell when you can't go a 100 miles on a tank of fuel !!! " little did I know that I had left home in it thinking it was in drive, but it was in low range I didn't think twice because everyone talked about how weird it was to drive a car that didn't shift .. lesson learned. I went the rest of my round trip on one tank of fuel after that !!!

[MicroNitro]

My wife drives a 2006 Civic and she also has been upset by the mileage it gets. It is the SI and was said to get 40 miles a gallon the best she gets is 34. It has been a good car she has over 200,000 on it with no problems.

[DavidChampagne]

If you actually believe all the MPG numbers they put out there, you probably believe that if you go to a TACO BELL or SUBWAY that your food will look like the commercials and pictures. But, they are still my two favorite places to eat.

[Jordan White]

Okay guys, I've been following this and here's why she's suing Honda. Basically they found that under regular usage, the batteries in the hybrid Civics wouldn't last as long as they thought they would. Rather than deal with many early warranty claims, they decided to have the owners bring their cars in for a computer update that makes it so the system doesn't use the battery as much. Well this brings in the issue of the gas engine doing more of the work, and with a low powered engine hauling around a car that has the extra weight of the less-helpful batteries, well the fuel mileage decreases quite a bit.

If she wanted a regular gas Civic, she would have bought it. However she decided to rather get the hybrid, where the batteries help the engine with power and reduce fuel usage. Since this is now not the case, she decided to sue (and was smart to do it in small claims).

Oh, and at least it wasn't some insane amount of money either. I really don't see less than 10 grand unreasonable when the class action suits are attempting to get millions (couple hundred for each person involved, the rest for the lawyers). And as far as the McDonalds hot coffee case goes, A) the coffee was much hotter than it should have been B] McDonalds had been cited several times for not lowering the temperature C) she only wanted money for hospital bills but the jury awarded her more and D) the jury decided that she was in fact partly at fault, which did reduce the amount she was awarded.

Edited February 3, 2012 by Jordan White

[Darin Bastedo]

My Hyundai is rated at 29mpg city, 40mpg Highway, and mpg combined, and I have regularly gotten 45-48 mpg highway, and 34-36 mpg around town, so some cars actually get better than advertised

[Greg Myers]

I think many of you are right. We (baaa) should except the manufactuers claims on MPG (baaa) and all the other ###### they shove down our throats (baaa).

[moparmagiclives]

I think many of you are right. We (baaa) should except the manufactuers claims on MPG (baaa) and all the other ###### they shove down our throats (baaa).

It doesnt matter (baaaa) what line (baaa) your standing in (baaa), your still fallowing something (baaa)..

[my name is nobody]

this is odd. I was having this conversation with my teenage daughter

just the other day. while watching the national news on television,

the story of this honda lawsuit came on.

it was then that my daughter started asking some questions about the mileage of

our fleet of vehicles, and the mileage that I get with each particular vehicle.

While my Torino GT gets about eight (8) mpg, some of our cars & trucks that are Forty years newer dont get that much better fuel mileage.

I explained to her that my theory is, the automobile industry seriously lost its way,

about thirty years or so ago.

I brought out a " People" magazine from 22 december 1980.

my wife saved it from way back, probably because its a tribute issue to John Lennon.

The reason I showed her this magazine was inside the front cover, is a three page foldout,

an advertisement from Plymouth.

it basically highlighted the upcoming model year offerings.

The Plymouth Reliant K-wagon..........40mpg Hwy/ 24city.

Plymouth Reliant K- sedan.................41mpg Hwy/ 25 city.

Plymouth Reliant K- coupe.................41mpg Hwy/25 city.

Plymouth TC 3 Hatchback...................41mpg Hwy/27 city.

Plymouth Horizon miser.....................50mpg Hwy/30 city.

Plymouth Champ Hatchback..............50mpg Hwy/37 city.

Now, those are pretty strong numbers, for that time period rather remarkable.

so my question to her, and to anyone else is, What Happened?

How did the automobile industry lose it's way? I mean come on,

in the past thirty two years the corporations couldnt come up with something that would/and or could improve these numbers?

This is a great example of how the Automobile industry as a whole has

really gone astray. Now we have so-called Hybrid vehicles that cant approach these numbers. or the numbers of the competitors that Chrysler/Plymouth compares itself to in this advertisement.

So my real question to automobile consumers around the globe is why isnt everyone

more upset about this? How did this industry lose its way so badly?

This issue should have been brought to the forefront when the Automobile industry

had its hand out asking for taxpayer dollars a few years ago.

To big to fail? I dont think so. they fail the consumers every year.

I'm glad this lawyer, or ex-lawyer is taking this issue to court.

and I hope everyone prevails in the giant class action lawsuit.

I believe every automobile company fudges the numbers on what consumers should expect from their vehicles. and I also believe that at least here in the United States,

The EPA and our government allow them to continue to do so.

[moparmagiclives]

So my real question to automobile consumers around the globe is why isnt everyone

more upset about this? How did this industry lose its way so badly?

This issue should have been brought to the forefront when the Automobile industry

had its hand out asking for taxpayer dollars a few years ago.

To big to fail? I dont think so. they fail the consumers every year.

What was the power output of those vehicles?? What was the emmisions output for those same cars back then? There is no way they would meet 2012 standards as a new vehicle. THATS the problem with todays vehicles and the milage they are getting (or not getting). There is no way Americans would "settle" for small under powerd cars now...who wanted to drive a "k car" for any lenght of time? It comes right back around to pleasing everyone ( still cant believe Harry can't ) all the time. Either we take the big power and performace with the poor milage that comes with it or take the high milage and poor performance..either way it has to meet very tight emmision laws and it will be a nit picking fight.

[scalenut]

wait a minute , I thought the numbers you see on the window sticker are determined by the EPA ?

EPA changed the way it estimates fuel economy starting with the 2008 model year. This "new" way of estimating fuel economy supplements the previous method by incorporating the effects of

• Faster speeds and acceleration
  
• Air conditioner use
  
• Colder outside temperatures
  

[Kaleb]

Isn't California the place of the 90mph prius? I don't know what's she has done to her car but we are getting 33.7 mpg and the sticker said 39.

[Harry P.]

The EPA revised its test in an attempt to provide more realistic estimates... something closer to what a regular person driving in typical conditions can actually expect to see. But their estimates are still over-optimistic.

I don't know how they test cars exactly... I assume they're put on a treadmill-type thing and run at a constant speed? Problem with that is that nobody drives on a perfectly smooth, level surface at a constant speed. At least they ought to run the cars at various speeds, stop and go, A/C on, etc., to get a more realistic estimate.

And remember... the woman didn't sue the EPA, she sued Honda. So appparently Honda must have made mileage claims in their ads or brochures or whatever apart from the "official" EPA estimate, because the judge ruled in her favor. I don't think she would have won the case if she had sued the EPA.

[my name is nobody]

What was the power output of those vehicles??

Thats a good question.

apparently though, they had enough power:

[Greg Myers]

[moparmagiclives]

Thats a good question.

apparently though, they had enough power:

Sure...enough for that...but then brand "x" came out with enough to carry a moose AND an ice chest...so began the great power war of the 80s...

..thats a good picture though..lol

[Alyn]

The EPA revised its test in an attempt to provide more realistic estimates... something closer to what a regular person driving in typical conditions can actually expect to see. But their estimates are still over-optimistic.

I don't know how they test cars exactly... I assume they're put on a treadmill-type thing and run at a constant speed? Problem with that is that nobody drives on a perfectly smooth, level surface at a constant speed. At least they ought to run the cars at various speeds, stop and go, A/C on, etc., to get a more realistic estimate.

And remember... the woman didn't sue the EPA, she sued Honda. So appparently Honda must have made mileage claims in their ads or brochures or whatever apart from the "official" EPA estimate, because the judge ruled in her favor. I don't think she would have won the case if she had sued the EPA.

Cars are tested on a chassis dyno programmed to simulate a fixed course including starts, stops acceleration, etc. Two different programs are used; one for the city cycle and one for the highway cycle. As Scalenut pointed out, a couple of years ago, they turned up the knob marked "REALITY" a few notches to more accurately reflect the way people typically drive.

The biggest factor in not achieving these numbers is the way people drive. I've read numerous complaints from people that don't get the EPA numbers in their Ford Focus. I've had mine for 6 years and consistantly exceed the published MPG rating of 25/32. A few years ago I drove from Denver Co to Kansas City on one 14 gallon tank of gas and had a gallon to spare when I arrived home; 44.25 MPG. Minimal use of both pedals is the key.

[Guest Johnny]

But Alyn, they say under NORMAL driving conditions which includes the drivers.

If you are not driving in a typical fasion as in how the general public drives then you cannot say you are driving normal!

All the tests are done under "IDEAL" conditions which means nothing like real world conditions which are never ideal!

The real tests should be done in a public setting with an average driver behind the wheel.

Otherwise don't rate them at all as it is all smoke and mirrors!

[Harry P.]

I agree with Johnny. If the EPA test simulates "normal" driving conditions, the estimates would be much closer to what people get in the real world. The fact that the EPA numbers are consistently significantly higher than what regular people get on the street tells you that there's a real disconnect between what the EPA considers "normal" driving and what "normal" driving really is.

The fact is, most people do not drive as cautiously and conservatively as what the EPA test simulates. I think it would make more sense if the EPA estimates were the worst you could realistically expect, not the best.

[Erik Smith]

Thats a good question.

apparently though, they had enough power:

Let's see - license plate 23, Musselshell county, Montana. Probably just using a good west wind to keep it going. Probably a road kill too.

[Harry P.]

Also... does the EPA test include sitting still and idling?

In the "real world" you spend a lot of time burning gas but not moving... which obviously lowers your overall MPG. Sitting at a light or stuck in traffic, you're getting ZERO miles per gallon. That has to be factored into "real world" driving conditions. What percentage of time spent per typical trip is spent sitting still?

[moparmagiclives]

Also... does the EPA test include sitting still and idling?

In the "real world" you spend a lot of time burning gas but not moving... which obviously lowers your overall MPG. Sitting at a light or stuck in traffic, you're getting ZERO miles per gallon. That has to be factored into "real world" driving conditions. What percentage of time spent per typical trip is spent sitting still?

But they are not Harry,dont forget that the "normal" driving conditions the EPA test under, are pretty similar the the "normal" driving conditions that most cars are built to be driven in. If you look in the owners manual, I bet not one person drives under what the factory would concider to be "normal operation" driving...they will most likely fal under "severe duty" Any stop and go or extended idle will place yout right at the top of the list for severe dudy.

[Harry P.]

But they are not Harry,dont forget that the "normal" driving conditions the EPA test under, are pretty similar the the "normal" driving conditions that most cars are built to be driven in. If you look in the owners manual, I bet not one person drives under what the factory would concider to be "normal operation" driving...they will most likely fal under "severe duty" Any stop and go or extended idle will place yout right at the top of the list for severe dudy.

Right. That's my point... what the EPA says is "normal" driving is nothing close to real-world normal driving, where we sit still for part of the trip, or it's uphill, or going into a headwind, or in stop-and-go traffic, etc. The EPA tests don't really reflect "real world" conditions.

[Kaleb]

I will also add the under our estimated 39mpg is an average "real world" estimate of 32 to 34 mpg depending on the gas you use and if you change your fluids regularly.

[moparmagiclives]

I start my 4.7L Ram and let it warm up for about 2-4 min, then hit the high way at 60 mph for 22 miles, then pull into the shop and shut her off, then its the same trip home. I get 23 mpg out of it that way. Thats my " real world" driving...well 5 days a week anyway. the other two....well lets just say I dont drive it much on the weekends

There are just to many variables to try and get them to pass...If they had to make the milage requirements in all those, we would have very slim pickens to choose from as consumers...or pay a very fat gas guzzler tax.