Harry P. Posted February 2, 2012 Share Posted February 2, 2012 I just heard on the news that a woman sued Honda, claiming her 2006 Civic got far less than the 50 mpg that Honda apparently claimed it would get. Now I know that EPA mileage estimates are just that: estimates, and "your actual mileage may vary"... etc. But the woman apparently sued Honda, not the EPA. And she WON the case, and was awarded nearly ten grand. I wonder what sort of legal precedent this could set. What's to stop anyone who gets lower mileage than the manufacturer advertises (which is basically everyone) from suing the manufacturer and winning their case? Read the story here: http://editorial.aut...48-a5440fce8ab9 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Johnny Posted February 2, 2012 Share Posted February 2, 2012 (edited) Well then they had better stop playing fast and loose with the numbers. Don't kid yourself that is all about the EPA#'s which are "fleet" averages they company has to meet! If they want to advertise that "cooked" number looks like they darn well better make sure they are real from now on! Edited February 2, 2012 by Johnny Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter Lombardo Posted February 2, 2012 Share Posted February 2, 2012 Harry, I was speaking with one of the district reps from Chrysler today. He was saying that Honda is fearful of a "class action" suit so they may go back and start writing checks to people who own the "offending" model vehicles........this may well be a huge can of worms before it is finished.......we need to keep an eye on this situation. All manufacturers could be caught up in this type of case before it runs its course. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moparmagiclives Posted February 2, 2012 Share Posted February 2, 2012 I know on a Chrysler stand point, poor milage is NOT a warrentable complaint on its own with out a malfunction. I'm not sure why this woman won the case. I'm sure alot of it came down to some paper trail that feel through the cracks some where. Did she buy it new and is just now sueing? I cant see her wining the claim with a used second hand car. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Art Anderson Posted February 2, 2012 Share Posted February 2, 2012 Well, the lawsuit happened in Kalifornia, the Moonbeam State, so go figure. In any event however, EPA mileage figures are about as accurate as any other statistic the Federal Government puts out--most are about as useful as oats that have been through the horse. Art Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Junkman Posted February 2, 2012 Share Posted February 2, 2012 I had no idea this kind of stuff is going on in the States as well. Here in Europe manufactureres state a fuel consumption calculated from values established in laboratory tests. They are far from reality and differences of 20-25% to real life values are not unheard of. This inevitably led to court cases and now the Central EUSSR Soviet in Brussels ruled in favour of - you guessed it - the corporations. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moparmagiclives Posted February 2, 2012 Share Posted February 2, 2012 "Peters, a former lawyer" That says enough right there....kinda funny how the new limit on small claims changed in 2012 too.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter Lombardo Posted February 2, 2012 Share Posted February 2, 2012 Remember, according to the article, she kept the claim under $10,000, which allowed her to sue in Small Claims court. Honda will appeal and if this goes to a higher court and the full force of the Honda legal team is brought to bear, this may get reversed and change others mind on whether to jump in or not. We will see how this plays out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moparmagiclives Posted February 3, 2012 Share Posted February 3, 2012 That would be interesting.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erik Smith Posted February 3, 2012 Share Posted February 3, 2012 Harry, I was speaking with one of the district reps from Chrysler today. He was saying that Honda is fearful of a "class action" suit so they may go back and start writing checks to people who own the "offending" model vehicles........this may well be a huge can of worms before it is finished.......we need to keep an eye on this situation. All manufacturers could be caught up in this type of case before it runs its course. I am pretty sure there was already a class action lawsuit, which Ms. Peters opted out of. She could then take Honda to court herself. Interesting thing - I was looking at a new Honda Fit on a Honda lot yesterday. The EPA sticker said something like 25 to 33, but the salesman said it will get 40 and that Honda is really conservative on their estimates. Interesting... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
promo55 Posted February 3, 2012 Share Posted February 3, 2012 That woman was an ex-lawyer. Naturally, she was going to win when she presented the case to another lawyer! I think this was just a move to get a stagnated career going. She is now going to represent others who have the same complant,at a generous fee,of course! Shades of Ralph Nader! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LAone Posted February 3, 2012 Share Posted February 3, 2012 wow, really interesting to see how all this pans out. a salesmen to say that it gets more than what the EPA sticker say should get a slap across his fat head. i also wonder how she drives. i have seen plenty of hybrid owners flying on the freeway as if they were in ferrari's.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harry P. Posted February 3, 2012 Author Share Posted February 3, 2012 The fact that this woman is apparently a pretty sharp lawyer doesn't change the facts of the case. She presented her case, and the judge saw things her way. Yes, she specifically opted out of the class-action suit and took on Honda in small claims court. She knew what she was doing and why. Obviously Honda will appeal and spend millions to save a few thousand. And if they win the appeal, this all goes away. But if they lose the appeal... who knows how things go in that case? Remember, this woman isn't the only sharp lawyer out there... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Johnny Posted February 3, 2012 Share Posted February 3, 2012 (edited) From what I understand Honda was working on a deal through a class action brought against them. She opted out because it was going to be a few hundred bucks per plaintiff if they go class action. Her idea is if she won to encourage others to sue individually as she did! Should have mentioned I had talked to my lawyer today on another matter and he was talking about this case. he has three right now that who have come to him for advice and are looking to file suit in small claims for the same thing. Remember, you cannot use a lawyer in small claims court! Edited February 3, 2012 by Johnny Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erik Smith Posted February 3, 2012 Share Posted February 3, 2012 wow, really interesting to see how all this pans out. a salesmen to say that it gets more than what the EPA sticker say should get a slap across his fat head. i also wonder how she drives. i have seen plenty of hybrid owners flying on the freeway as if they were in ferrari's.. Honda is taking it to appeals court. Honda will now have the advantage of using their own lawyers - something they could not do in small claims court. They will investigate everything - drivings habits and history and, most importantly, maintenance. If they find out she didn't follow the maintenance schedule to the T, she will have trouble in appeals court. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harry P. Posted February 3, 2012 Author Share Posted February 3, 2012 Should have mentioned I had talked to my lawyer today on another matter and he was talking about this case. he has three right now that who have come to him for advice and are looking to file suit in small claims for the same thing. Remember, you cannot use a lawyer in small claims court! But you can BE a lawyer and file a claim in small claims court... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Johnny Posted February 3, 2012 Share Posted February 3, 2012 Could be she will keep her win. they have 30 days to appeal and most of the same rules apply in the appeals hearing as does in small claims court! They are not going to have that time to do some big fact finding investigation. I'd say this was well thought out by the plaintiff! Even if they get a new hearing they still cannot have a lawyer in the court! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prostreet Posted February 3, 2012 Share Posted February 3, 2012 The MPG's of cars are never 100% accurate, Should the car get what they claim sure, But how it was driven has alot to do with that also. Anything to make a quick buck, That's the problem now a days everybody is sue happy for stupid stuff like this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harry P. Posted February 3, 2012 Author Share Posted February 3, 2012 She claims that her car never got more than 40-42 mpg at best. That's pretty far away from Honda's claim of 50 mpg. Peters, a former lawyer, told the court that "the car never got more than 41 or 42 even on its very best day," and said the fuel economy dropped to below 30 mpg after a software update intended to extend battery life and improve performance. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jeffs396 Posted February 3, 2012 Share Posted February 3, 2012 Our sue-happy society lets this kinda thing happen...what a crock! (and I don't even like Honda!) It all started with the McDonald's hot coffee-in-the-lap suit Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikemodeler Posted February 3, 2012 Share Posted February 3, 2012 She claims that her car never got more than 40-42 mpg at best. That's pretty far away from Honda's claim of 50 mpg. Peters, a former lawyer, told the court that "the car never got more than 41 or 42 even on its very best day," and said the fuel economy dropped to below 30 mpg after a software update intended to extend battery life and improve performance. I find this funny as i drive a V-6 Camry and regularly get 30 MPG driving in the Carolinas at speeds usually above the posted speed limit with several hundred pounds of sales materials in the trunk. I wonder what her burden of proof was to substantiate her claim of poor mileage? I would think she would have to have detailed gas receipts and mileage records. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeMc Posted February 3, 2012 Share Posted February 3, 2012 jackrabbet driving and riding the brakes,,,,non maintained battery...why weak..no water? I want to see the end! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moparmagiclives Posted February 3, 2012 Share Posted February 3, 2012 42 mpg is still about 84% of the advertised mileage , that's better then a lot of makes out there. More then enough room for driver induced reductions. I still think its odd that it would take 6 years for someone to get tired of something and sue...... "Oh wait, you mean there isn't something wrong with my car, there is a bunch that are performing exactly like mine does.. Maybe I should sue now" !!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prostreet Posted February 3, 2012 Share Posted February 3, 2012 I find this funny as i drive a V-6 Camry and regularly get 30 MPG driving in the Carolinas at speeds usually above the posted speed limit with several hundred pounds of sales materials in the trunk. I wonder what her burden of proof was to substantiate her claim of poor mileage? I would think she would have to have detailed gas receipts and mileage records. I was wondering that also. Even my 94 subaru legacy Daily driver gets 30mpg love that little car. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Swifster Posted February 3, 2012 Share Posted February 3, 2012 When cars are tested for mileage, they are run at a standard. This can be 55 MPH or 65 MPH and you may get the advertised mileage. You're not going to get it at 70 or 75 MPH. I've exceeded the listed 32 MPG in my Caliber but it was at 60-65 MPH and I got 33 MPG. She probably won on default when no one from Honda showed up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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