Opinion Please --- Re Customs in Contests...

[moparmagiclives]

so Watson's 58 T-bird isn't a custom?

This is very much a custom car. Striping a car down to do full color change and grafix on top of that is no small feat. If you do that same thing to an Harley, its a custom bike right ?

Edited February 14, 2012 by moparmagiclives

[Psychographic]

This is very much a custom car. Striping a car down to do full color change and grafix on top of that is no small feat. If you do that same thing to an Harley and its a custom bike right ?

As someone who does Custom Paint work, no a paintjob does not make a car/bike a Custom. It's a stock car with a paintjob, there is nothing else custom about the vehicle.

Edited February 14, 2012 by Psychographic

[Joe Handley]

I've got better fodder for this thread than the Merc, how about their '48 Ford coupe? That has more custom features in the box than the Merc does, some of which require more than paint and glue to look like they belong on the car too.

[sjordan2]

So, in what category would you enter a super-detailed model like John Teresi's Bentley or many others? It replicates the original 1:1 car, using a vast amount of scratchbuilt parts and materials not found in the box, without "customizing" the appearance or mechanicals of the 1:1..

[LoneWolf15]

Here is an example of what Mark was referring to ...

Street machine class , a pro street RoadRunner takes a first place in the category . This automatically puts the car into the running for Best Of Show .

When the results were announced for Best Of Show , a car that had placed 3rd in the street machine category was proclaimed the winner .

The car was an average build , a little glue on the glass , orange pealed paint , and a visible thumbprint in the left rear quarter . When questioned , the judges stated that the car had scratch built headers made from solder , and that put it up over the top !

How does a model finish third in it' s category , and then garner a Best Of Show award ? Beats me ! But , these are the situations that do occur on occasion at the shows .

I am in agreement with Mark on the finish post also . We just went over the topic on what defines a clean build last week . Like it or not , a smooth finish is part of a clean build ! All the detail and scratch building in the world cannot save a build if the paint work looks like it was done with a handful of raisins !

Struggle with paint ? Work at it ! It's not that difficult . Smooth paint work , color choice , and prep work all go hand in hand here . Each are equally important and a part of a clean build process .

[Fabrux]

This is why I'm thankful my club's shows have simple categories for automotive: automotive street, automotive racing, automotive trucks (for big rigs) and automotive misc (tools, shop equipment, trailers). We also have a theme every year for automotive; last year was longbodies, this year is pickups.

[Guest Dr. Odyssey]

So, in what category would you enter a super-detailed model like John Teresi's Bentley or many others? It replicates the original 1:1 car, using a vast amount of scratchbuilt parts and materials not found in the box, without "customizing" the appearance or mechanicals of the 1:1..

I was JUST looking at that.  No matter how much extra detail is added if it is supposed to be a replica of a non-custom car, it is not a custom.  BUT if the additions and scratch built parts are not accurate an argument could be made that it is customized by default.

[Joe Handley]

So, in what category would you enter a super-detailed model like John Teresi's Bentley or many others? It replicates the original 1:1 car, using a vast amount of scratchbuilt parts and materials not found in the box, without "customizing" the appearance or mechanicals of the 1:1..

That sounds like it should be dominating the Replica Stock class.

[moparmagiclives]

As someone who does Custom Paint work, no a paintjob does not make a car/bike a Custom. It's a stock car with a paintjob, there is nothing else custom about the vehicle.

Then why do you call it "custom" work ? I do it as well, but I would say something as radical a paint jobs as this does make it a custom vehicle.

There is an absence of trim and door handles, and the bumper/ grill has been modified, doesnt that count for custom work? Seems to sit a little lower then "stock" as well.

Edited February 14, 2012 by moparmagiclives

[Guest Dr. Odyssey]

That sounds like it should be dominating the Replica Stock class.

But Replica Class requires the model to be just that - a Replica not a nice model with extra "detailing" that is not "replicating" the real car. Inspiration and replication are far different. Like the RW&B Matador I found by John. Incredble doen't say it, but its not based in reality or a replica. That would be a custom to me. And customs can get a pass for not being functioning cars like Factory Stock or Replicas since many are just aye-candy trailer queens.

[Guest]

I've seen similar situations also Don. At one show I competed in,I saw two models that were really nice. One had one door opened and the other had both opened and lots of details everywhere. The paint on both was just slightly orange peeled,but nothing too terrible. I figured I looking at the first and second place models and that I may or may not place. I thought at best I would get third. My model has lots of detail,but not hardly as much as either of the other two and only the trunk opened. Mine does have a slick as glass paint job,but that's the only advantage mine had over the other two. Here come the shocker! I won first place and neither of the other two models even place!! The two models that got second and third actually had worse paint jobs than the other two! To me the judges got it waaay wrong! I should have got third at best and the second and third place winners should not have even placed. There were several models on the table that were better than those two and there were two for sure that I felt were better than mine.

Another year, same show. There's a model with one door open,lots of poorly done photo etch, hood glued open because the engine sat so high that the valve covers were above the fenders and a paint job that looked like it had been sprayed over eighty grit sandpaper. It got first place! I couldn't believe it! You just never know what judges are going to pick or how much alcohol they've consumed during the day.

[moparmagiclives]

One is based on what the cars are modeled after, one is based on the type of construction.

I think this sums it all up.

I dont see how a chopped merc would go in anything but the custom catogory, even if it was "box stock" built...same with the 48 ford kit. Someone had mentioned that is should be juged on what the model represents,..factory, custom, race..

Edited February 14, 2012 by moparmagiclives

[LoneWolf15]

A replica stock model can be done on any subject . As far as I'm concerned , it is the toughest class that exists , especially at the GSL .

Every single nut , bolt , wire , spring , etc , had best be in it's place and you have to have the photos and documentation to prove it .

As far as I'm concerned , John Teresi is from another galaxy , forget the planet ! His work along with a few others , Mark Jones , to name one , is so far beyond the mere mortal's , it is mind boggling !

Do I think they're nuts , absolutely ! But the consistent body of work is just plain staggering to my mind . Lol ! The Bentley is merely a replica stock build , but it is one of the finest that I have ever seen in my life !

[Psychographic]

Then why do you call it "custom" work ? I do it as well, but I would say something as radical a paint jobs as this does make it a custom vehicle.

There is an absence of trim and door handles, and the bumper/ grill has been modified, doesnt that count for custom work? Seems to sit a little lower then "stock" as well.

My reply was not based on the overall car, yes that car is modified. I should have not quoted the first sentance, my reply was based on the idea of a paint job making a car custom. Sorry for the confusion.

I do not think a paintjob can make a custom car. Why? Where do you draw the line on what amount of effort makes it custom? A color change can be considered custom, but it no way makes the car custom. What if some guy sees something on one of those car shows on TV spouting the praise of Duplicolor decides to mask a few stripes and rattle cans to it, is it now a custom car? There really is no way to draw a line on how much of a paintjob it takes to make it custom, therefore I don't consider a car custom if it just has some paintwork.

[Fabrux]

I will say that, personally, if a 49 Merc was entered in the same custom category as, say, my 69 Cougar fastback and both were finished the same quality and the Merc won, I would be a little upset. Here is a car that has a chopped roof in the box whereas I went through all the effort of grafting on a different roof entirely. I would imagine that the effort you put in the kit counts for something. This is why for our show we have a "degree of difficulty" on the judging sheet to help fairly judge things.

[LoneWolf15]

Here's one for you , Plowboy !

Best Paint award is down to myself and a guy I only knew to speak to at the shows . He wins , problem being ? His Cobra body wasn't painted , it was just the factory blue molded body , polished to hell and back !

He tried to give me the award at the end if the show , I wouldn't take it . I told him he'd earned that one , and promptly burst out laughing !

Mad ? Nope ! I made a good friend that day because of it . Now , it's a big joke between the two of us , it leads to the type of banter that can't be discussed on a public forum ! Lol !

A father , mother , daughter trio , moving up and down the tables . Dad points at each model asks her what she thinks of it . Comments like "ugly" , " stupid " , " dumb" just poured out of the little one's mouth . Were they merely looking at the models ? Uh Uh ! They were the judges for the street rod class ! Lmao !

[moparmagiclives]

There really is no way to draw a line on how much of a paintjob it takes to make it custom, therefore I don't consider a car custom if it just has some paintwork.

I can respect that. Come to think about it, its a lot like someone tossing some vinal on the side and calling it custom. Maybe some one should write a rule book.

I will say that, personally, if a 49 Merc was entered in the same custom category as, say, my 69 Cougar fastback and both were finished the same quality and the Merc won, I would be a little upset. Here is a car that has a chopped roof in the box whereas I went through all the effort of grafting on a different roof entirely. I would imagine that the effort you put in the kit counts for something. This is why for our show we have a "degree of difficulty" on the judging sheet to help fairly judge things.

Would those two be in the same class? I guess I need to get to a few shows and see how these things are ran

[Nate]

Don, maybe the award should have been called "Best Finish".

As to the definition of "custom"; it usually delineates a car such as the Revell 49 Merc or the new 48 Ford, but the 1:1 world refers to these cars as "customs." It's a specific style of car, like lowrider, or hotrod. A "mild custom" can be a simple as a lowered stance and a "panel" paint job, like the paintjob on the T-bird posted above. An example of a "radical custom" would be "The Aztek" or the "X-Sonic". Take a look at the pages of The Rodder's Journal, they cover hot rods and customs. The era of "customs" was roughly the early 50's up through the early 60's when the muscle cars hit the scene, but that's another story alltogether (brittish accent ala Waynes World).

But as far as contests go, it depends on how the contest rules are stated. At our club's contests, MCMA, custom means a model built in the custom style mentioned above. A box stock build can be entered in this class if the builder wants to enter it and compete with the others. The judges at our contests judge the workmanship, not the addition of parts. If a particular model has TONS of aftermarket and scratch-built parts but the execution is garbage and the box stock model next to it is flawless, the box stock one will usually place better. But that is a discussion on judging and is a whole different can of worms.

Edited February 14, 2012 by Nate

[Psychographic]

I know I'm going to catch flak for this, but I've always thought small scale shows should be peoples choice. Now I know that the average person usually doesn't know squat about how much effort goes into either a 1:1 or model, but there is no way to yell foul because of a couple of judges.

I'll give you an example of a show I was at years ago. I was showing my 83 S-10. Chopped 4.5 inches, juiced, side swing tailgate, Park Ave hood hinge, full molded ground effects (shoot me they were in style back then), fully shaved, total custom interior, full Candy graphics and murals on the hood and Toneaeu (Sp?), I think you get the drill. There was no sport truck category, I got put in "other". There was a fully restored military Jeep with a trailer and gun like Rat Patrol. I figured I didn't have a chance. I was right and wrong, we both got beat by a mid 80's Olds of some sort that had wheels and wire loom, that was it!

Had the people voted, that Olds would have never won.

[Nate]

Don't take this the wrong way, but did the Olds have better overall execution that yours? Maybe the Olds really was better. Maybe it was the judge's brother-in-law's (brother's-in-law?) build? Maybe those judges didn't know anything about that style of vehicle. Either way, when you enter a judged contest you submit yourslef to the idiosyncrasies of that particular club's judging.

Edited February 14, 2012 by Nate

[Psychographic]

The Olds was bone stock other than the wheels and the wire loom, my truck on the other hand had one best of show and best paint at quite a few local shows, so I doubt if it was execution. The Jeep should have won on the unique factor alone, and yes, it also was done well.

When I was showing the dime, it was to promote work, so I really didn't care if I won with it or not.

[LoneWolf15]

The Buckeye Club overcame all of those obstacles ! Guess who does the judging ? Your fellow contestants ! Each modeler is given a sheet and must pick a 1st , 2nd , and 3rd place for each and every class . No exceptions , if you compete , you must also judge !

All of the first place winners are then placed in the running for the Best Of Show award . This is the only category that the club has anything to do with , judging wise !

It works ! Who are you going to complain to if you feel that you were cheated ? , all of your fellow contestants ? Naaaahhh ! Lmao !

[Romell R]

I have to agree and disagree with everyone!!! hehe im just tring to stay neutral but to my experiance custom class in a contest usualy means work the builder has done to the project, it may be paint , addon's and so forth. If you add seatbelts to a build that didnt come in the box it is nolonger box stock it is now a custom. it is that simple.

[moparmagiclives]

The Olds was bone stock other than the wheels and the wire loom, my truck on the other hand had one best of show and best paint at quite a few local shows, so I doubt if it was execution. The Jeep should have won on the unique factor alone, and yes, it also was done well.

When I was showing the dime, it was to promote work, so I really didn't care if I won with it or not.

Are you sure it wasnt an escort, built to look like an olds ??? Man thats alot of work

but really, thats the problem with car shows, its all about the taste, and range of the judge(s), to him ( and I'm not trying to dig at any previous posts I made) it may have looked like another "painted" truck to him.....or it was his brothers.

Crappy deal non the less...do you have any pics to email?, love me a mini truck !!!

[Steve Keck]

As far as I'm concerned , John Teresi is from another galaxy , forget the planet ! His work along with a few others , Mark Jones , to name one , is so far beyond the mere mortal's , it is mind boggling !

Do I think they're nuts , absolutely ! But the consistent body of work is just plain staggering to my mind . Lol ! The Bentley is merely a replica stock build , but it is one of the finest that I have ever seen in my life !

Donn, I both agree with some of your statements here while at the same time I disagree with others.

Yes, John Teresi is from another galaxy. He is a prolific builder. And at first glance his work is mind boggling. However, upon further review, his work brings him back to the level of "mortal", to use your terminology. His work just about "gets there" and then he stops. Why? I don't know. And, yes, John's work is consistent in this regard. I agree with you that the Bentley is merely a replica stock build but it is no where close to the finest I've ever seen. I don't want to belittle John's work, but, I don't feel the readers here should be mis-informed. Just my opinion.

Are they crazy? I'm not to judge.

I feel it is inaccurate to place John's and Mark Jones' work on the same plain. Their work just isn't on the same level. Digital photography hides NOTHING. It is the "Great Unequalizer". Mark's work stands up to digital scrutiny; John's doesn't. His fit and finish just doesn't compare. Up until now I've left likes and dislikes out of it. I like some of John's subjects he has chosen (same for Mark's). I like how he has inserted his personality into his builds. I don't like where he considers his builds finished.