Just an observation

[Kaleb]

I have noticed a few things in here, and one of them is the most recent. I'm not implying anything. But it was a well built model built by a talented builder. But it seems that if the model had been built by art, John, scale master or some extremely talented builder there wouldn't have been as much negative feedback and poop throwing. Under glass is for finished models of all kinds. Except trucks apparently lol. Regardless of that it's for completed models both good and bad and in between. For the builders to display a model and drama pops up because someone throws a bad opinion and yes I commented on that insult. It was really uncalled for IMHO. For a builder to spend countless hours and state that fact to be insulted.

Just my observation is all. And on a second wind if it's a finished model. Electronically slap the build on the back and say good job. Not up side the head and say what we're you thinking. I would like to propose an area or subcategory to the finished models. It is for critiquing built models..... On that note the builder Will have to understand that they are opening themselves up for all kinds of input both good and bad. I know that there will be some drake but if we would exercise constructive critizism it would help everyone. Leave the drama to teenage girls and soap operas to the women.

I'll leave this unlocked for comment but the first spark it will get locked.

[SuperStockAndy]

Can't agree more.

[martinfan5]

Its all how you word things, and a lot of the time, its never worded the right way, or sometimes people are just trying to be mean. Either way, if you have nothing nice to say, dont say anything. Unless the builder ask's, even then, try and word it so it does not come off like an insult to their building level

[Casey]

I would like to propose an area or subcategory to the finished models. It is for critiquing built models.....

That section already exists- Under Glass. Romell's own blue italicized words in his post: "if you have any questions or comments please feel free to post them."

Not everyone deals with criticism as well nor as readily as they can accept praise, but when you post in an open forum, you have to be prepared for both. There's no need for another category, but it would be nice if people could learn and understand the difference between critiqing and criticizing a model versus personal criticism. I think that would be a far more valuable addition to the Model Cars Forum.

[martinfan5]

That section already exists- Under Glass. Romell's own blue italicized words in his post: "if you have any questions or comments please feel free to post them."

Not everyone deals with criticism as well nor as readily as they can accept praise, but when you post in an open forum, you have to be prepared for both. There's no need for another category, but it would be nice if people could learn and understand the difference between critiqing and criticizing a model versus personal criticism. I think that would be a far more valuable addition to the Model Cars Forum.

It would be nice, but sadly it will never happen

[Casey]

It would be nice, but sadly it will never happen

Maybe not, but that doesn't mean we have to nor should lower our standards .

[martinfan5]

Maybe not, but that doesn't mean we have to nor should lower our standards .

I agree

[Austin T]

I agree with this idea there have been several models that I have been afraid to post on here because of flaws.On the other hand I have learned a lot to apply to a model to make it better.

[Agent G]

I agree

As do I.

I have been at this model building thing for a long time. That doesn't mean I build breathtaking models, have perfect paint, or absolute precise detail. I want comment, critique, and yes praise if it deserves it. The typewritten medium is not condusive to emotion nor can the nuances of personal conversation be detected.

Jonathan and I are friends in the "real" world. He knows "how I am" so to speak. So when I bust his chops, he feels confident as he can literally "hear" me speaking. He "knows" what I'm saying.

For the rest, I try to provide positive feed back, and if I feel some constructive comment is required, PM's are the way for me.

G

[martinfan5]

As do I.

I have been at this model building thing for a long time. That doesn't mean I build breathtaking models, have perfect paint, or absolute precise detail. I want comment, critique, and yes praise if it deserves it. The typewritten medium is not condusive to emotion nor can the nuances of personal conversation be detected.

Jonathan and I are friends in the "real" world. He knows "how I am" so to speak. So when I bust his chops, he feels confident as he can literally "hear" me speaking. He "knows" what I'm saying.

For the rest, I try to provide positive feed back, and if I feel some constructive comment is required, PM's are the way for me.

G

Thats a good point Wayne, I really think a lot of the times, people are trying to come off in a non insulting way, but the words, or the lack of putting it in the proper context in word form, makes it come off like an insult.

Just like what Wayne said, I am not building perfect models, but I do try my best, and have learned alot from this place, I am all for tips, or suggestions, but put it in a friendly way.

Side not, G, I have looked at some of your non auto builds, and you do a really great job on those

[CadillacPat]

Are people realy intimidated about posting their work because they fear someone will reply with words other than honey dripping praise?????

What happened to self confidence or being proud of what you did???

What would happen if the guys in Research and Development of any business/manufacturer decided to withhold their findings for fear of being criticized?

Nothing would ever get invented or improved.

Thomas Edison proudly remarked when asked how his new electric light was coming along, "Not yet, but I have invented 2000 ways not to make a lightbulb".

CadillacPat

[MyBradKeselowski]

There are some of us builder's myself especially that do not build top notch museum piece models like other builders on here do, but when myself or other builders post them in the Under Glass section as I have with two of them, we do ask for any positive or negative comments. If the other forum members leave comments expect what they are going to say.

Forum members who look at our builds if they don't really like them, they really shouldn't comment and leave nasty remarks or be rude just because we either don't go way out or build extremely well done models that receive over 50 replies.

If you do like someones build and have something nice to say about it then compliment them on their work and make them feel like they have done a good job and feel comfortable about posting their builds. If you don't like someones build and it's not top notch work or up to your standards then you should not leave hateful or nasty comments to that builder to where they don't want to share their work knowing no matter how good it looks to them it won't to you.

We should all be praising each other's builds and not causing soap opera drama by being nasty, hateful or rude...

Edited April 6, 2012 by MyJoeyLogano20

[heatride]

Well it never has made sense to me to get upset over what somebody says on the Internet. If

I post something its fair game even if its hateful . I am not going to reply and let those types drag

me into there misery . If I post a build on the here and Agent G says Glenn you might want to try

doing this or that I will appreciate and thank him . And if somebody comes along and says it looks

like junk , im gonna laugh because it simply does not affect my life . For some reason that my simply mind

CANNOT figure out why people have to post on topics that does not take a cross eyed rocket

scientist to figure out its gonna go nowhere in a hurry . If the folks here for the enjoyment of the

hobby pass it up they will simply pick up there toys and go somewhere else .

Edited because im simple minded and cant spell or type .............weeeeeeeeee

Edited April 6, 2012 by heatride

[Kaleb]

Gregg has also posted that above the forum to keep those comments to yourself. Regardless of honey dripping praise and pat on the back is fine. That's what the under glass section is for, nothing else. The sub category on the other hand is for comments to help. Not to hurt the builder. Like hey the exhaust pipe doesn't connect to the header or manifold. That looks like junk. The forum would be for constructive criticism which we all need to work on regardless of who we are, my self included. Like here is a tip to get the exhaust pipe to connect to the manifold. Or here is how you can do this to make that better or work smooth. Donn has a video on the paint that covers the tips. But not everyone can afford it. So tips like warming the rattle can would help somewhat on grapefruit peel. I also have seen the comments from well known builders and they are the pat on the back so to speak. While others that may not build as well. Destroy the workmanship that has been put into a build. Present and past.

[Casey]

Gregg has also posted that above the forum to keep those comments to yourself.

That is in the "On The Workbench" section:

On the workbench

Rules for On The Workbench For those viewing others who are presenting their works in progress in this section of the forum, please keep your criticisms, sarcasms, and other comments to yourself, unless the builder/poster has specifically asked for such replies.

Now, it may apply to the Under Glass section, too, I don't really know, but you didn't mention the last sentence above: "please keep your criticisms, sarcasms, and other comments to yourself, unless the builder/poster has specifically asked for such replies." In this case, comments were welcomed by the builder, and people did just that.

[Erik Smith]

Original wording of the topic seems to trigger more critique as well. If you state something like "most detailed kit ever" or "100% scratchbuilt", then you are boasting, and if the facts don't back up the claims, you will be called out. It's best to walk quietly and gain the respect your build deserves.

I post builds and HOPE somebody can point me in a direction to improve.

I also just recalled a recent post - I commented on the aspects of the build I liked and have some ideas on how to improve the areas that looked like they could have been done better. The OP took it in great stride and thanked me for the feedback.

Edited April 6, 2012 by Erik Smith

[Kaleb]

Ah, well I was posting from my phone, so I can't read everything. But I stated that just for reference. As far as the topic goes, I'm not just talking about one topic in particular. I don't post a lot of my builds and I don't post my wip but that's another reason lol. That is because when I post wip I never finish them. I guess all in all everyone needs to watch how they word things both topic and comments. And I know it doesn't cover all the drama and soap opera but it is a start. If a topic gets blown out of proportion with all the flaming and crud. The OP should lock it or a mod should lock it.

[Kaleb]

Bingo, IMHO just pat them on the back for the accomplishment and encourage them to keep moving forward. If I got some of the comments that have been posted on other builds I would not be building. I'm not saying give a trophy to every kid just because they participate but st least encourage them to come back and try again. The problem with this society is that we rely to much on the microwave. Push a button and bingo you have a 5 star tv dinner to go. I don't expect donn yost quality paint jobs over night, nor do I expect scale master results. This is why I suggest a sub category to finished builds. Here is an example the builder post a picture of under carriage, both sides, front and back, interior and under hood. He states what he has trouble with and people that "KNOW" how to fix a problem offer their comment on how to keep the body on the chassis without it popping up. Or the correct way to put in plug wires etc etc etc.

[Casey]

This is a good topic to say the least.

It's like a two sided blade. Lets say a person has never built a model and they finish it and post it under glass. Now this person put there dead level best into this model, and all of the sudden some one was to say it looked like hammered poo.

What kind of effect will it have on said builder? It's not like a skilled builder slapped a kit together and it didn't look great.

In my experience here, such a scenario doesn't happen very often. I tend to see poorly built models get little to no comment at all, probably because the person viewing it can't think of anything good to say about it, or the pictures are of poor quality so we can't fairly judge the quality. I suspect we have all opened some topics, looked at the first two pictures, thought "that's not very good", and simply moved on without commenting. It would be nice to add some positive comments and/or constructive criticism to each and every post we view, but very few people have the time or desire to do that, myself included.

I honestly think very, very few people will intentionally criticize a build just to be a Richard Cranium, but such people do exist, both on the internet and in real life. The vast majority of feedback is positive, but even with positive comments, you have to take them with a grain of salt. We all have different standards, and what may be considered "awesome" by one person may look like a poorly thought out model to another person. I think there are basic model building standards we can mostly agree upon (all parts are installed correctly, paint is evenly applied, no glue smears on the glass, tires and wheels are properly fit together, etc.), but no two people will ever agree on everything, and would we really want them to?

[martinfan5]

In my experience here, such a scenario doesn't happen very often. I tend to see poorly built models get little to no comment at all, probably because the person viewing it can't think of anything good to say about it, or the pictures are of poor quality so we can't fairly judge the quality. I suspect we have all opened some topics, looked at the first two pictures, thought "that's not very good", and simply moved on without commenting. It would be nice to add some positive comments and/or constructive criticism to each and every post we view, but very few people have the time or desire to do that, myself included.

So thats why my builds dont get a lot of comments, oh well , I dont really care that they dont.

But I do agree with what you said Casey

[Modlbldr]

I have to say that I generally don't involve my comments on topic such as these. For one, I don't need the drama in my life. For two, as it has already been stated, no two people are going to look at a well built model or a piece of hammered poo and judge it the same. I only offer one bit of advice. Something I learned years ago is to "Praise in Public and Criticize in private". If you can think of something positive to praise the builder on, and want to take the time, do it on their post. If you feel you need to encourage further progress in a particular area, send them a POLITE PM.

An example would be:

"I'm not sure how much experience you have at polishing out a paint job but what I have found that helped me was to use sanding pads and wet sand the body, working up from 4800 to 12000 grit, being careful not to burn through to the primer and stay away from the sharp edges. If you have any questions I'd be glad to share some pointers with you. Nice job on the detailing of the interior."

This way if the person gets offended then it is only between you two. If they appreciate the help then you have advanced the hobby and possibly made a friend. Who knows, in the future they may credit you as their inspiration and mentor.

Now, I know that there are those ones out there (like me) who always ask for comments and criticisms on their posts. If that's the case then they (me included) have to be ready for it. But if they don't specifically ask for it, or if you think it may offend......take it to PM.

Later-

[Eshaver]

I really liked what casey said bout some folks being able to handle criticism better than others . hey some folks here jus plain got a chip on da shoulder an waitin fer someone to say something . I don't always agree with what is said about me . However I will never "Lock out" or make it to where my detractors can not have their say . Ed Shaver

[Kaleb]

Some may have a chip on their shoulder but there are several with a bag of corn chips on their shoulder.

Opinions are like armpits, everyone has them, some of them stink.

[Eshaver]

Some may have a chip on their shoulder but there are several with a bag of corn chips on their shoulder.

Opinions are like armpits, everyone has them, some of them stink.

Joshua , I really like that !!!! That sir is an award winner . Ed Shaver

[Kaleb]

Tom what you said was great, but again if we opened up to critiquing, several of us can learn. I would put a build up just so I could show how it would work. I don't want people getting offended and all of a sudden no one comes here because of what someone said public or private. If posted in the critiquing thread, they will have to understand they are opening themselves up for all opinions. Just like a car show. The under glass is not the judging area it's just for display. Congratulate the builder for his or her accomplishment. it doesn't have to be every car and it also doesn't have to be everyone critiquing. I used to run a forum and it can be set up for only certain members to reply.