Harry P. Posted April 7, 2012 Posted April 7, 2012 There you go, folks. Simple logic, simply put. Follow this guide and you won't go wrong. That's why the man has been the longest-lived moderator on this forum. He has it together. And he keeps it together. (Amazing that he's from Chicago.) - Not everyone from Chicago is corrupt!
Harry P. Posted April 7, 2012 Posted April 7, 2012 Like the new Avatar Harry Yeah, me too! Now why didn't I think of that? Thanks, Skip!
martinfan5 Posted April 7, 2012 Posted April 7, 2012 Food for thought. Constructive criticism Constructive criticism aims to show that the intent or purpose of something is better served by an alternative approach. In this case, making the criticism is not necessarily deemed wrong, and its purpose is respected; rather, it is claimed that the same goal could be better achieved via a different route. Constructive criticisms are often suggestions for improvement - how things could be done better or more acceptably. They draw attention to how an identified problem could be solved, or how it could be solved better. Its all how its delivered is the key, and that key is what a lot are missing
Scale-Master Posted April 7, 2012 Posted April 7, 2012 Its all how its delivered is the key, and that key is what a lot are missing That is a good point, but there is more to it than just delivery. There is the inabilty by those who post (in some cases) to accept anything other than praise, deserved or not. The OP must be able to accept other peoples opinions (and reality). Add to that a handful of people who like to pile on and make it sound like the OP was disrespected (as well as adding nothing constructive) and you have a trainwreck waiting to happen.
Chuck Most Posted April 7, 2012 Posted April 7, 2012 It is definitely a two way street... some people need to choose their words a bit more carefully when offering what is inteded as helpful critique, and some people need to realize the one who are 'bashing' them are offering their remarks as a helpful critique. Yeah, there are trolls on this and every other internet forum, but I'm not even going to waste my time on that. They're the ones the 'Ignored Users' feature is intended for.
martinfan5 Posted April 7, 2012 Posted April 7, 2012 I do have to agree that a lot of people do not know how, or want to here anything other then great job!.
Kaleb Posted April 7, 2012 Author Posted April 7, 2012 Well then, I guess if there is nothing nice to say don't say it. But...... What will it hurt to say congratulations on a model completed. To some, like me that's an accomplishment lol. But if your good with words and if the OP wouldn't mind constructive criticism then post on. If you have something to call on like say the muffler tips are not lined up correctly. Don't say it looks like trash. Say something followed by how to fix it. Use common courtesy. I do realize for some people keeping their trap shut is common courtesy. But with 80 views on one subject wip or finished and no comments that also does a little blow on the builders confidence.
CadillacPat Posted April 8, 2012 Posted April 8, 2012 This is becoming so politically correct. First people were saying to always reply something "nice". Now they are saying if you don't reply then the Builder's confidence might be irreparably harmed. I thought Parents were supposed to raise their kids, not us. I don't think Builders who are serious about their art will intentionally slam someone, that's not what they are after in this Hobby/Pasttime/Part Time Business. Instead of us biting our tongues when replying, or denying ourselves replying, how about the original poster learning to take comments without freaking out. If someone comes in and blatantly degrades someone then the Administrator can take care of it. Or we can all walk around on eggshells. I don't care one bit about replies. I post up my builds so people can view them. Posting my builds shows what I do. If someone wants to talk trash that shows who they are and more than often what they aren't capable of doing. You can always find the Sandbox kids on any forum. I came here looking for involved discussions on Techniques and Products to better what I do, and to teach what I know, like I have done for the past 9 years online and 13 years at Car Shows and Conventions. CadillacPat
martinfan5 Posted April 8, 2012 Posted April 8, 2012 Pat, I think this is the first time I have said this, but I agree with what you said, I post my stuff on here, not to get praise , but share with everyone, and if there are ways to better my builds, I hope someone will take the time to tell me in a none you dont know what the heck you are doing way, thats all I ask for.
Kaleb Posted April 8, 2012 Author Posted April 8, 2012 Ahhh, thanks for pointing that out I started to become one of them. I don't mean to kiss their pinkie toe on every build. And I'm not saying reply to every build, but after 80 views and no one replies, it surely can't be that bad of a build. I do realize we are all different, and that's what makes the world go around. But I see people drooling over exquisite builds and stepping over newbies. And some in between because they show promise. One thing I have noticed, and I have felt this personally. I don't feel like a car or truck would be accepted because its not "realistic". It's a model car for goodness sakes. I mean if you want to talk about cartoonish cars look at the donks and some rice burners out there not including four wheel drive cars. A model car should look like a model car and be able to feel fine with it. Yes I do try to make some of mine realistic, but not all of mine are that way. I don't want to be politically correct, but we all could watch our attitude around here. It gets very hostile at times. I for one spent as much time building as I do online, I would probably get more done. I do my best to get done what I have to do, then get online. The reason I say that is because some probably feel like they are in charge because they are on here the most. I don't know about the ones that buddy up to the mods, I haven't been here that long. I also try to stay out of the garbage, but sometimes it just goes too far. It's been said before, most of us are grown ups. Act like it. And I see the same pattern of here is another thread about the same subject.....your right it is. But as long as there is trash talk, and jerks that think they run the place or bash models because they don't par to what they think it should... There should be more threads like this. For the simple fact if there wasn't threads like this there would be so much garbage in here, that I believe Gregg would shut it down, and I would be behind him. Wherever there is something good, there is always something bad to try and ruin it. This goes beyond just finished model kits in the under glass section. It goes for people looking for info, like my other thread for the 69 nova that I am looking for info. Everyone of us are tuned in for more drama, what's going to go on next at mcm. Yes there is quite a bit of helpful info that goes out. But once some drama or some heat starts, everyone drops what they are doing and put their two cents in. Now I'm done....I think....no I'm done I've said my peace and it probably won't be the last. Just sayin that it wouldn't hurt to be a little nicer, to newbies especially. I'm going to go more to under glass and practice what I preached.
martinfan5 Posted April 8, 2012 Posted April 8, 2012 Joshua, I do agree with what you are saying as well, I think we should all be a little more nicer to people on here, but still be helpful at the same, and it shouldnt matter if they are new here or not. Its simple really, we all need to show a little more respect to our fellow modelers on here.
comp1839 Posted April 8, 2012 Posted April 8, 2012 (edited) if you want your criticism to be considered "constructive". maybe you should: 1) offer it during the construction stage. where there is time to actually repair the fault. waiting until a project is completely built and painted. then rendering your "the front end is crooked" comment does no one any good. 2) offer your timely "constructive" critcism with some sort of helpful fix. if it's wrong, knowing how to fix it and offering a suggestion on the fix. will be a big help. disguising criticism by using the word "constuctive" in front of it, is pretty lame. also, it seems everyone on this board has their own definition of what scratchbuilt is. unless the board is going to post a common definition to which we can all subscribe. until then, all the definitions are correct. Edited April 8, 2012 by comp1839
BKcustoms Posted April 8, 2012 Posted April 8, 2012 I agree that it can be difficult to give constructive criticism without sounding rude, but if the person asked for comments they should be ready and willing to listen to the feedback they receive. there are a few people who live to bring people down, but that is usually not the case and most of the time the person that comes across as rude is just trying to help. I will continue to post "All comments welcome" at the bottom of all my build threads because I'm always willing to learn and take advice from all the great builders here. Billy
Harry P. Posted April 8, 2012 Posted April 8, 2012 if you want your criticism to be considered "constructive". maybe you should: 1) offer it during the construction stage. where there is time to actually repair the fault. waiting until a project is completely built and painted. then rendering your "the front end is crooked" comment does no one any good. Most people don't post anything during the construction stage, they only post the finished model. So "Under Glass" is the only time anyone gets to see the model and make comments.
comp1839 Posted April 8, 2012 Posted April 8, 2012 very true, harry. see step 2. all i'm saying is, if you WANT your criticism to be CONSIDERED constructive................then post that way. if you want to criticize.........then post that way. just stop hiding behind the false pretense that it was meant to be constructive. what are your thoughts on the board defining scratchbuilt (at least on this board ) to elleviate future discrepancies on that issue?
Guest Johnny Posted April 8, 2012 Posted April 8, 2012 and the point is, oh there is none other than the same old broken recording "if you don't want.................." The problem is when giving criticism is you do not know anything about the builder other than what little you see post on the site which is still basically nothing! Too many here are too quick to criticize without knowing who they are criticizing. Constructive is fine, to an extent but therein lays the problem and that so much is NOT constructive and is more a poke in the eye to the builder! Just like years ago at a school art fair. there were pictures painted by a class of 7th graders and there was one that looked like it would have been done by a 2nd grader and there was a group of so called adults laughing and poking fun at the picture not knowing anything about the artist. That artist happened to be right there hearing the rude remarks that they were making just picking it apart. What they did not know was the limitations or the skill level of that artist or the fact he was a mainstreamed kid with Downs Syndrome. It hurt that kid bad and he never would do any artwork after that. The school superintendent who was responsible for the show read them the riot act (rather than making excuses for them) for their actions and suggested next time they think before criticizing in a hurtful manner. BTW the kid was my brother. He hanged himself in a closet less than a year later.
sjordan Posted April 8, 2012 Posted April 8, 2012 very true, harry. see step 2. all i'm saying is, if you WANT your criticism to be CONSIDERED constructive................then post that way. if you want to criticize.........then post that way. just stop hiding behind the false pretense that it was meant to be constructive. what are your thoughts on the board defining scratchbuilt (at least on this board ) to elleviate future discrepancies on that issue? Maybe it would be better to encourage the builder to define what he means by scratchbuilt rather than instituting a rule that few would follow or know about. This could be done when a builder posts a model he calls scratchbuilt, then someone could gently ask him to define his terms. I believe Romell exactly defined what he meant from his point of view, and enough said, though some others didn't see it that way.
comp1839 Posted April 8, 2012 Posted April 8, 2012 you're probably right, skip. that would be great. how would you suggest we accomplish that? like you said, romell did offer his point of veiw on the subject and others dismissed it and stated their own. it still led to a less than desirable result.
espo Posted April 8, 2012 Posted April 8, 2012 Like my mother always told me " If you can't say anything nice then don't say anything at all ". If someone puts them self out there by showing us their pride and joy of a model, at least they should be given the same respect that you would want.
Badluck 13 Posted April 8, 2012 Posted April 8, 2012 Never judge a work of art by its defects...........
martinfan5 Posted April 8, 2012 Posted April 8, 2012 Can some one share how Romell defined it?, just curious, as I missed that and people disagreeing with him
Casey Posted April 8, 2012 Posted April 8, 2012 (edited) Can some one share how Romell defined it?, just curious, as I missed that and people disagreeing with him Maybe it's because the post was edited and some comments have been selectively removed. Perhaps it has something to do with the fact that the post in question was locked last night, and was unlocked by this morning, for whatever reason? You'd have to ask whomever deleted them. I noticed Reeves Racing's comments as well as mine have been deleted, but I didn't delete my comments, which are still shown as a quote in post #38: I don't see how you can boast it's "100% scratchbuilt" when the body and fifteen packages of resin-cast parts from Flashpoint were used, not to mention the wheels and tires weren't made by you either. I guess "scratchbuilt" has a very different meaning to you... There are a lot of nice details and you certainly did a fine job scratchbuilding the chassis from brass tube and rod, but little details such as the tail lights, the crooked engine, and the misaligned header tips, really stand out against all of the other work. I stand by my criticism and compliments, deleted or not. Edited April 8, 2012 by Casey
Kaleb Posted April 9, 2012 Author Posted April 9, 2012 Just a quick definition in my book, of scratch built. Is never been made, built from plastic sheets, tubes or pieces. Could be resin or metal, but only made by the person building the car. Nothing in production. Now there's catch. 22 or whatever. Scratch built could be like Harry said. Not in a production kit or however he put it. Those are the main two terms that could be used. But since that apparently needs cleared up the first one is the truer definition of scratch built. The second one needs a name of its own like NPK. Non produced kit, or something of the sort. Besides that fact this was not just based on rommels ride, it was also based on the others that either get no remarks or nasty comments. I for one am usually the one that doesn't get remarks. I really don't care, and am not whining. I post them on here to show what I've completed. Regardless of the fact there have been some well made points on here and it needs to be left at that. I know there will always be trouble makers, but then there are also nice guys. Don't let a few bad ones spoil the whole barrel.
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