The Demise of a Company Way Ahead of Its Time

[FloridaBoy]

I have been modeling for many many years, and being an old guy, and traditional type modeler, I have those hang-ups and baggage that comes with the territory. Now I regret many of the preconceptions of years past. One of them is that I had to do major bodywork to every car I worked on, such as chopping, channeling, sectioning, etc etc, which can really get you in a rut.

Second, I am way too old to really jump on the bandwagon that guys are making street machines, rods and customs out of cars that one never thought would fly, such as Lincolns, Continentals, Oldsmobiles, Buicks, and the like. Heck, I just finished a 37 Cord I made into a street rod, but as I look back, I regret the total bigotry that I had toward Johan model cars. Back in the sixties, I had the opinion they made imitation 3in1 kits of what AMT didn't make, such as DeSoto's, Oldsmobiles, Caddys, Ramblers, and other obtuse cars. I did buy a DeSoto back then, and even admired the details and the motor, but focused on the fact there were way too few custom parts, instead of the model.

In the seventies and eighties, I began to show appreciation, but not total objectivity toward Johann, and when I had the chance would buy AMT any day of the week. Now that Johann is essentially gone, I heard that several of the employees who were owed money took some of the toolings from the company, leaving the model car world without some of the jewels they made. I don't know what is missing, but in my book, the Mickey Thompson Titanium Pinto was a classic, out classing the AMT and MPC funny cars of that time. They also did great jobs with the Challenger and Barracuda drag cars, the Comet and Maverick funny cars were beautiful with those big 429 motors, and there I was buying 40 and 40 Fords, and here I am with about 50 AMT 40 and 49 Fords which I will never build. But looking at old Car Models and Model Cars and SAE mags, I see the selection that Johann offered, and really wished not only me, but the rest of the model car world gave it the support it deserved.

This company failed because it was so far ahead, we couldn't adjust, at least in my opinion. I know that Okie Spaulding purchased what was left of Johann, and wish him luck, and maybe some of those employees with the pilfered toolings will be offered amnesty and give Johann a chance to run some of these jewels.

Ken "FloridaBoy" Willaman

[camaroman]

I agree with you are saying. I would not spend what little

model money I had "back in the day" on Johan.

I really wished now I had. The made some cool stuff.

Maybe with the AMT probelm they can make a resurgence.

JMTCW

[Zoom Zoom]

While not as good as getting some of the originals, I fondly remember the days that Johan reissues and sho cases were in plentiful supply at Wal Mart for the grand sum of $2.88 each. And visiting Johan on a side trip from Toledo, and picking up a bunch of their promos from Marjorie, the lady at the front desk who answered the phones.

[Phil Patterson]

It is a shame how things went, it'd be nice if some of the missing tooling could be found, but I'm afraid a lot of that hit the smelter a long time ago.

I am amazed how the reissue 59 Rambler wagon kit has appreciated, it often goes for higher prices than the original JoHan or ExCel versions!

It never did make the shelves around here, sigh, like the Revell 69 Dart, it got rare and expensive before many made it to the shelves.

Edited September 28, 2007 by Phil Patterson

[Harry P.]

I remember reading an article in the "other" magazine more than 10 years ago regarding the "rebirth" of JoHan.

We're still waiting.....

[MrObsessive]

IMO, Johan made the best looking and (accurate) bodies of all the model companies back then. This without CAD and other modern tools of today. Yet, their bodies always seemed dead on accurate compared to the 1:1's, which may explain why they're somewhat coveted today.

I've got a number of Johan builtups and kits which I'll probably never let go because they're so rare. In fact down the road (sometime next year) I'm going to "accurize" RC2's '58 Plymouth Belvedere using the roof off the '59 Dodge that I got from Okey Spaulding at NNL East. (I only needed the body)

The only beef I had with Johan is their chassis' left much to be desired with all the detail molded in (no worse than AMT) and as you mentioned, TONS of customizing stuff which to me is an abomination on a good looking body!

Edited September 28, 2007 by MrObsessive

[Olle F]

IMO, Johan made the best looking and (accurate) bodies of all the model companies back then. This without CAD and other modern tools of today. Yet, their bodies always seemed dead on accurate compared to the 1:1's, which may explain why they're somewhat coveted today.

I've got a number of Johan builtups and kits which I'll probably never let go because they're so rare. In fact down the road (sometime next year) I'm going to "accurize" RC2's '58 Plymouth Belvedere using the roof off the '59 Dodge that I got from Okey Spaulding at NNL East. (I only needed the body)

The only beef I had with Johan is their chassis' left much to be desired with all the detail molded in (no worse than AMT) and as you mentioned, TONS of customizing stuff which to me is an abomination on a good looking body!

That's exactly what I think about them too. I don't know why Johan would be considered ahead of it's time, but the bodies are usually gorgeous. The shallow interior tubs and the sparsely equipped chassis leave a lot to be desired though. What I really like is that they made models of cars that the other manufacturers wouldn't touch with a 10 ft pole, especially ugly ducklings like the '59 Rambler wagon. Really, I would be happy if they just reissued the bodies, so you could source the rest elsewhere.

[jbwelda]

i also always felt johan was a poor second cousin to amt and never really thought much of their kits. in fact i still dont think they were "ahead of their time", but in some ways that is true: the real world of rodding sort of caught up with them as the more popular subjects disappeared from the used car lots and junkyards and that left the less desirable mopars, american motors and other lesser models and brands to be rodded in real life and all of a sudden the johan "ugly ducklings" became more representative of what was going on in the real world and thereby the real world indeed "caught up" with johan.

i picked up a perfectly built 62 dodge dart convertible with engine under the hood, box and all the extra parts for about 5$ at a swap meet a few years ago, strictly because i thought it was a cool throwback and well built by whoever did so...i almost thought it was a factory assembled promo. showed it to a friend of mine and he flipped out over it, like i had found a holy grail or something. it *is* cool and i see what people mean when they talk about scale fidelity of the body, but to me back in 62 or so it would have had pretty much zero appeal compared to what revell and amt and even mongram were doing. but looking over the custom and competition parts, i see they were ahead of their time with them (even though many of them are too ridiculous to use then, as now) but the myriad fender skirts, mirrors, spotlamps, grilles, louvers, interior accessories are very neat to see now. this one i picked up was built completely stock, and all the extras were in the near mint box, as were the instrux, and decals. as i understand it, this may have never been reissued so it has value just from that, but it really is neat to see what these were like back in the day when i ignored them so...

just goes to show: if you put out a quality product, it will be appreciated if only belatedly...

i also wish i had picked up some of those competition cars, but i was out of modelling by the time they appeared...besides no one in their right mind would want a pinto back then...at least not me or any of my friends. the idea of a pinto race car was just beneath consideration (even though i guess they were pretty strong with the 289 in them, but they just didnt register as "cool" with anyone i knew), but these days these more obscure things interest me much more than a 40 ford or 55-57 chevy, thats for sure.

and who ever thought back then anyone would anyway think a rambler was cool??? i remember even snearing at american motors attempts at "youth market" cars but i can think of a number of them i would love to have now!

[MrObsessive]

i remember even snearing at american motors attempts at "youth market" cars but i can think of a number of them i would love to have now!

I hear ya Bill!

From 1987-92 I owned a 1:1 '69 AMX which I wish like heck I hadn't sold! In '92 I was being stationed down in Fort Jackson, SC........and couldn't take the car with me.

Reluctantly, I sold the car to a fellow upstate from me in PA. Of course he was tickled to death to buy the car as it was a 390 with a 4 spd. A combination that was hard to find in '92.

Wouldn't ya know it------I got hurt about a month after I got there, and the Army sent me home on a medical discharge. If my crystal ball hadn't been in the shop, I would've seen it coming and just simply parked the car on the street until I got back!

Anyway, I've got my share of Johan AMX models..............an unbuilt '69 in a excellent box, a built '69, and a built '70 in great shape, waiting for a resto someday.

Even more potent than an AMX believe it or not was the SC Rambler with the 390-4 spd combo!!

[James W]

It took me a while to see the value of the JoHan kits. Their oddball subject matter did not appeal to my teenage tastes in the late seventies. But I did like the low prices, especially when I only had $4.00 in my pocket.

I liked the funky box art. It was Old School even then. The colors stood out. Remember AMT was doing built-ups on plain white backgrounds at that time. Eastwood Hobby in Salem kept the Johan stuff on the bottom rack. It was the last place you looked, usually when money was tight.

A Petty Superbird and a 64 Dodge were favorite models. I bought a S/CRambler that had a flawed body and a Caddy came without a chrome tree. I sure wish today that the LHS had 30 JoHan kits to choose from at 80% the cost of the other kits.

The last JoHan kit I bought in a LHS was Shahans' 69 AMX, that was in upstate New York in '89.

As stated in the thread, the bodies seemed dead accurate. Very crisp lines, delicate even. Those tool makers were true artists.

[FloridaBoy]

Now that I have read this thread and there are others who like Johann models as much as I do now, maybe we could get something going. Maybe a Johann revisited. Surely there are guys out there that have a Johann kit which we were discussing, and all we would need is the body, interior tub, engine block and manifold, and other parts to make it a decent start up model, then we could somehow make a committment to a resin caster of us purchasing so many kits, have that model owner lend his model to the resin caster, then return it with a little payment.

We would buy up the resin kits, like the Olds F85, Caddilacs, Ranblers, Mavericks, Comets, and the like, as they are cast, and everyone makes out. We get the "lost Johann" kits, the resin caster gets business and gets it easy as he probably could cast his piece from a styrene master very easy compared to a built up model, the owner and caster makes a few bucks and voila!!!

That is if there is interest and a little income. Maybe if there are enough of us, and we do one kit at a time, we could start something. I have no ulterior motive except to recapture those lost Johann models I sold a few years ago for practically nothing. I for one would like to see that neat 60 Desoto cast as a resin kit.

Ken "FloridaBoy" Willaman

[Rob Hall]

I discovered Jo-Han about the same time I got into modeling, 1978...my first glue kits were the Revell 'Bad Dream' '56 Chevy and a Jo-Han 'USA Oldies' '60 Plymouth wagon...followed by several AMT 'Countdown Series' kits. I built a few Jo-Han kits through the '80s--'69 AMX, '75 Cutlass, Marlin, '68 Fury, '68 Chrysler 300, etc.

When I got back into modeling in the late '90s in my late 20s I started adding a few vintage Jo-Hands to my collection--have a nice bunch now incl. a '59 Olds 98, '61,'62 Olds 88, '61-67 Cadillacs, '70,'71,'74,'75 Eldorados,'66-'71 Toronados, '65-68 Furies, etc... the big gaps that are on my grail list are the late '60s Ambassadors and Rebels.

I've always liked Jo-Hans for their body accuracy and the off-beat subjects.

Edited September 30, 2007 by Rob Hall

[James W]

the owner and caster makes a few bucks and voila!!!

Ken "FloridaBoy" Willaman

It would be nice if there were money involved for all parties. In the transactions of this type that I've heard of, the owner of the original gets a couple copies of the resin as payment.

Since there has not been a rush of resin copies of these kits, I 'm guessing there is not alot of profit in them yet.

But prices on resale JoHan kits have been climbing. Perhaps it's time to prod the casters into action.

If you know a caster or do business with one regularly, request some JoHan re-pops.

That's capitalism in action.

[Modelmartin]

I bought the occasional Jo-han kit in the pre-drag race days of the company but I went nuts when they starting doing all of the drag kits. The Sox-Martin Cuda doesn't hold up so well today but it was fabulous when it came out. The Mickey Thompson Pinto and Mustang, Rambunctious Challenger and the Dyno Don/Schartman Mustang/Comets were really fabulous and are kits that I keep in my inventory even today. They were and are more accurate than any other drag cars that were produced back then with a very few exceptions and they could be assembled pretty easily. I would think that Okie could make a bunch of money re-issueing some of those drag kits even in plain boxes or bags! That may help finance the 50s stuff he seems to like.

This isn't meant to be a rant or even negative about Okie and Jo-han but I have seen his table at several shows and it looks like a junkyard. It seems somewhat unprofessional. I want Okie to succeed and wish him nothing but the best and I will buy kits that I want if they get produced by him even if they are packed in Glad zip-lock bags!

[KT EASTMAN]

I missed out on a lot of JoHan kits due to my age!! I am 34 and when I was younger I remember that there were still a few in the stores that I saved up and bought them( R.Petty 64 Belvedere, 69 Roadrunner, 7? ElDorado, and a few others). As I grew up and JoHan went away I was sorta bummed because I did like their kits and the subject matter was unlike Revellogram,Amt,Mpc that seemed to always pop out the same stuff. Now that I am older I do collect JoHan kits and builtups when I find them and I can afford them. It would be really nice if Okey could of brought back the JoHan corp. back to its former glory!! I would be one of the first in line if I saw they were producing some of those old kits( AMCs in particular....and I don't know why!!!!) I will also agree that the bodies were just awesome and always seemed spot on and accurate. Hopefully someday we can see that kind of attention to detail again!!! KT

[carguybradd]

I used to frequent a LHS in the 80's and was amazed at the number of "old" JoHan kits they had. As a teen at the time I too thought the subject matter was strange, but I did eventually buy one: the 62 Chrysler 300H.

A few months later the store was destroyed by a fire! They eventually reopened, but without any of those old kits. I sure regret not getting more of them when I had the chance...

[my name is nobody]

I did know about Johan.......and bought plenty of their kits.

still have most of them, and have only built a small percentage.

The box art was what really drew me in, some of them were pretty cool:

[FloridaBoy]

I've been thinking about Johann and after reading about them in old mags, and passing them up although I knew they made a pretty decent kit, I think a factor of my youth was that I was a label jockey. When I was young, I was sort of conditioned that the name label was the only quality on the market, and evreything else was a cheap imitator. Plus, who wanted back then to model a Cadillac Hearse, or Rambler or Desoto or Oldsmobile. Today, great inspirational customs and concept cars have been created from all of these cars, and now, I am saying, "Darn".

Then in the late seventies and eighties Johann came out with their Ramchargers, Great Funny Cars, ProStocks, Mavericks, Comets, etc etc etc, and I was still label oriented. Heck, I even remember that one time saying to myself looking at a Maverick Johann kit, "Hey, I'll wait until AMT makes it". Idiot.

Now, the only thing I have left of any Johann is the 429 Ford motor from the Maverick Funny Car, probably my best motor, which I put a new fuel injection unit in it, for installation in my kitbashed '41 Ford Convertible. When I get attachment space, I have a bunch of pictures, and will post them when the space comes available to me.

But, again, those Johann kits were my major mistake of the hobby, compounded again and again over the last 40 years, and sometimes I think I am not alone.

Ken "FloridaBoy" Willaman

[Billy Kingsley]

Ken and others...At least you had the opportunity to experience JoHan! I didn't start modeling until November 1999....at that point, it was far, far too late for me Granted, I was only born in 84 so the heyday of Johan predates me, but still...

Johan kits are like gold to me.....Hard to find, harder to afford, and a pleasure when the opportuniy arises!

I have less then 10 classic Johan kits in my collection, all of which have costed me $30 or more except one, which I consider to be a true bargain! I found a factory sealed 35 Mercedes at LIARS last year for only $20..I will build it, eventually!

The first "Old Kit" I ever bought was a Johan, the 1960 DeSoto from the USA Oldies issue. I got it at the NNL East in 2001 and paid $30 for it. I'm still upset beause the box got crushed...totally destroyed. That one was special to me. I did replace it at MASSCAR this year, for $50, but it's not the same. Still, that one doesn't leave my sight here, as it's the only unbuilt kit with a permanent place on my display.

I did get all the reissues Okey did, and built several of them, but it's not quite the same as having them new.

I wish I could find more Superbirds. I have only one and the desire to build 5 at the very least. With the lack of vinyl roof, it's perfect for NASCAR builds, which is exactly what I want to do with them!

Yes, you guys may be regretting not supporting Johan as much as you could have....but at least you got the chance to!

[FloridaBoy]

A couple of years ago, I held a large "yard sale" to sell off my excess model kits, all in perfect condition with parts still on their sprues. I put them out on a Saturday morning after notifying my model car club that I would be selling off a lot of my collection. So I set them out, and guys showed up and I sold all but a few kits, a few I decided to keep, a few that didn't sell, and a few others that sold later.

One member bought all of my Johan kits, and at the time, I still had my predisposition toward Johann and put these marvelous kits in the $2 pile, imagine the "60 Desoto, Chrysler 300, Plymouth Belvedere, Sox and Martin Challenger and the Titanium Pinto going for $2. The saving grace part is that member is carefully storing the kits and has no intention to build them or sell them. He just wants to preserve them, and I am thankful for that.

[Ron Hamilton]

I'm old enough to remember a lot of the JoHan kits when they were new, and I have built quite a few of them. I have even been fortunate enough to amass a nice collection of unbuilt Johan kits to build in my old age. While I agree that JoHan had some of the most beautiful bodies with the crispest detail, they did take quite a few short cuts over the years, such as the short interior tubs up until 1964, and short, long cars, such as the early 60's Cadillacs and Chryslers. Towards the end of the line on the mid to late '70's, the detail started going away, especially with the interiors. Even with that, my JoHan collection is among the most prized items in my collection. Beware of old Johan model kits and promos, in that the plastic is very brittle, and will crack very easy. I found that out when polishing out a couple of them.

While I applaud Okey Spaulding's efforts to revitalize the JoHan brand, it seems to me that there were some unforseen obstacles, as well as some unfortunate happenings what went on during the transfer of ownership, not counting the unusable and missing tools. I wish he could have brought back more of the kits, as I bought a few of the kits from "the new JoHan".

Fortunately some reputable resin casters have repopped some of the old JoHan kits, that would otherwise be gone forever. I may never build my Johans, as they are steadilly appreciating in value. NOT! I bought them to build, and some day I will build my '70 Cadillac Coupe De Ville, my '66 Olds Toronado, and my '68 Plymouth Fury Convertible, among others.

[jbwelda]

>carefully storing the kits and has no intention to build them

i think i see a problem.