Art Anderson Posted September 22, 2013 Posted September 22, 2013 What about the fact that they are producing kits of "Dodges" and "Chevies" and "Fords," etc? Are they too small... too much a "mom and pop" operation for the 1/1 carmakers to even bother with? Having been in the resin business (1988-2000), I can tell you that for the most part, US automakers have not bothered with licensing of the model car aftermarket, due to the very small size of the individual model car aftermarket manufacturers. In other words, been there, done that, got the tee shirt. Art
sjordan2 Posted September 22, 2013 Posted September 22, 2013 (edited) Any time anybody, in any field, raises prices and consistently GETS them, it seems to give carte-blanche to every me-too pig-greedy seller to raise his own prices. Hence, eventually, ALL the prices continue to creep up, because MOST of the guys selling for 'fair' prices don't want to be left behind. That is how the world works...all you have to do is to pay attention to see it in operation every day, in everything.As I mentioned above, the occasional guys who part out a kit on eBay at silly prices have to be tremendously powerful to drive hobby prices up nationally. Edited September 22, 2013 by sjordan2
Art Anderson Posted September 22, 2013 Posted September 22, 2013 Any time anybody, in any field, raises prices and consistently GETS them, it seems to give carte-blanche to every me-too pig-greedy seller to raise his own prices. Hence, eventually, ALL the prices continue to creep up, because MOST of the guys selling for 'fair' prices don't want to be left behind. That is how the world works...all you have to do is to pay attention to see it in operation every day, in everything. Bill, it's been that way with literally anything you can think of that has been bought, sold or traded, particularly with anything that is scarce or unlikely to ever be produced again. I got the best piece of advice about that sort of thing: "I'm not angry about what price the other guy asks--he knows what his merchandise is worth." It's called the free market system. In addition, who really knows what a seller has tied up in whatever kit, part, or other collectibles he's trying to sell? Hmmm? Art
Ace-Garageguy Posted September 22, 2013 Posted September 22, 2013 (edited) The world is more complicated than you think it is (or are willing to admit). The world is UNNECESSARILY complicated because people MAKE it complicated, and humans have a tendency to create byzantine social and business conventions specifically, but perhaps unconsciously, designed to AVOID thinking about SIMPLE questions of right and wrong, and acting appropriately. I always have to laugh at folks lamenting "corporate greed". Corporations have no real existence, and their actions are governed ENTIRELY by individual human beings. If the majority of the individual human beings running a corporation believe in (and act on) concepts like fairness and truthful advertising, that's how the corporation will behave. If the majority of the individual human beings running a corporation think that the 'corporate shied' gives them license to price-gouge and profiteer, then THAT'S how the corporation will behave. It's really VERY simple if you strip away all the double-speak BS. Edited September 22, 2013 by Ace-Garageguy
Ace-Garageguy Posted September 22, 2013 Posted September 22, 2013 (edited) As I mentioned above, the occasional guys who part out a kit on eBay at silly prices have to be tremendously powerful to drive hobby prices up nationally. Not really. Any intelligent seller is going to search "completed sales" and have a look at what OTHER people are getting for similar items. Some guy, call him Seller B, sees ol' Pig-Greedy getting a lot more money than Seller B is thinking, he re-thinks his asking prices and raises them accordingly. Other folks see the two of them, they raise their prices. Domino effect, and not at all hard to comprehend. It is a LARGE part of what drives inflation. Edited September 22, 2013 by Ace-Garageguy
Art Anderson Posted September 22, 2013 Posted September 22, 2013 (edited) Not really. Any intelligent seller is going to search "completed sales" and have a look at what OTHER people are getting for similar items. Some guy, call him Seller B, sees ol' Pig-Greedy getting a lot more money than Seller B is thinking, he re-thinks his asking prices and raises them accordingly. Other folks see the two of them, they raise their prices. Domino effect, and not at all hard to comprehend. Hmmm, my point exactly. After all, what something is selling for from others is one of the ways values of items such as are discussed, are determned. If you think of it, stocks, bonds and other securities are priced at what the market is paying for those instruments. The same with fine artwork, and antiques--even antique cars. Free market system. That doesn't mean I like it, nor does it mean that I have to pay what "the market" price is, though. If I don't like the price asked for whatever, I do have the option of just not buying it, and if you think about it, were enough people to do that, the price will drop--as it always will in a free market. Art Edited September 22, 2013 by Art Anderson
Tom Geiger Posted September 22, 2013 Posted September 22, 2013 Not really. Any intelligent seller is going to search "completed sales" and have a look at what OTHER people are getting for similar items. Some guy, call him Seller B, sees ol' Pig-Greedy getting a lot more money than Seller B is thinking, he re-thinks his asking prices and raises them accordingly. Other folks see the two of them, they raise their prices. Domino effect, and not at all hard to comprehend. On eBay it works the other way. One guy finds a niche and makes good money. Ten more guys see that niche and figure they can do that too. The market gets flooded and nobody sells enough, so they start lowering their prices until they reach a point where nobody makes out. Look at Half.com, an eBay company that sells books. At first everyone was making money selling books. Now it's so flooded that you can buy nearly any title for a dollar. So nobody is making any money.
Tom Geiger Posted September 22, 2013 Posted September 22, 2013 . Like someone posted earlier when they get their saved search notifications and its full of his parts listings. I get tired of weeding through his listings to find what I really am looking for. that's pretty easy. On eBay go to the Advanced Search page and scroll down to "Sellers". There's a little box that says "include", but if you click on it, you can choose "exclude". Enter his ID and he's out of your search.
sjordan2 Posted September 22, 2013 Posted September 22, 2013 I keep forgetting that plastic car model kits represent the number one hobby in the world and that manipulating prices is the path to vast fortune.
Ace-Garageguy Posted September 22, 2013 Posted September 22, 2013 (edited) Bill, it's been that way with literally anything you can think of that has been bought, sold or traded, particularly with anything that is scarce or unlikely to ever be produced again... Art No argument there, Art, because people haven't really changed very much in thousands of years. Though we make better toys and tools, we don't treat each other any better than we ever did...but we've come up with wondrous ways to PRETEND we do. Edited September 22, 2013 by Ace-Garageguy
Ace-Garageguy Posted September 22, 2013 Posted September 22, 2013 (edited) I keep forgetting that plastic car model kits represent the number one hobby in the world and that manipulating prices is the path to vast fortune. Gee Skip, I missed the part where I said or even implied that. Must be my Alzheimer's kicking up. The point I was making (at least consciously, and that you ignore) is that a guy with 7000 active listings is GOING to have some effect on the prices OTHER sellers are asking for their toy-car parts. Edited September 22, 2013 by Ace-Garageguy
Ace-Garageguy Posted September 22, 2013 Posted September 22, 2013 On eBay it works the other way. One guy finds a niche and makes good money. Ten more guys see that niche and figure they can do that too. The market gets flooded and nobody sells enough, so they start lowering their prices until they reach a point where nobody makes out. Look at Half.com, an eBay company that sells books. At first everyone was making money selling books. Now it's so flooded that you can buy nearly any title for a dollar. So nobody is making any money. Gee, that must be why everything in every store and on every website is now so much cheaper that it was just a few years ago. I was wondering why my income seems to stretch SO much farther than ever before.
Harry P. Posted September 22, 2013 Posted September 22, 2013 Harry, you are obviously an intelligent man... Let's agree to disagree on this subject. I agree with both of those points! But seriously... of course we can agree to disagree. Differing opinions are the lifeblood of a forum. Everyone who has been part of this topic is doing exactly what they're supposed to do on an online forum... offer up their opinion. I still see absolutely nothing immoral about what this guy is doing, but I'm not going to try to out-debate you. The reason I got involved in this discussion in the first place was to offer an "opposing viewpoint" to all the guys that were calling this guy every name in the book. I don't see it that way at all, not even close. But that's my opinion. And you have yours. All is good.
Ace-Garageguy Posted September 22, 2013 Posted September 22, 2013 But that's my opinion. And you have yours. All is good. I am in complete agreement with THAT position. :)
Harry P. Posted September 22, 2013 Posted September 22, 2013 I am in complete agreement with THAT position. :) Bill, I'd love to have a few beers with you one day and just see where the conversation goes. I think it would be a blast.
Modelbuilder Mark Posted September 22, 2013 Posted September 22, 2013 The only thing that bugs me is that eBay lets this stuff "roll over" time after time after time, and you've got to plow through that flotsam to get to anything decent. Every once in a while, I do a search under "Pyro" to look for a couple of kits. I've seen the same four dollar instruction sheets turn up in every search I've done in the last three or four years. I guess eBay wants to keep the "available item" count up there... They do not "let them" roll. Keep in mind, this seller has to pay listing fees. Ebay earns money each time this seller lists them.
southpier Posted September 22, 2013 Posted September 22, 2013 (edited) Michael's carries a nice alternative .. works very well and with a little effort ( cutting and buffing ) it does a superior job. But then again, I can cut and buff Rustoleum to a mirror shine that you'd swear isn't Rustoleum. Also , most car parts stores carry very good paint at a fraction of the cost. But, instead of picking out "one thing" that has nothing to do with the subject at hand, how about you stay on task and speak to the original issue ? The fact that this guy is no better than big oil or the pharmaceutical companies. Or whether or not YOU would do business with a family member , close friend or co-worker like this .. It's a small world that gets smaller everyday, thanks to the internet, social media and forums just like this. You should treat every customer like family.. end of story. Do nothing to that customer you wouldn't do to your Dad, Brother, Sister or Mother. If more people thought along these lines, the world would be a better place for it. I'm all for making a buck or 2. But not at the expense of my conscience or beliefs. As I said before, I bet you've complained a time or 7,000 about the cost of gas. I know I have. It's the SAME thing. Apparently you have no issues with the cost of our hobby being driven through the roof. Must be nice to have that much disposable income.. another example, I don't know how many of you in here have other hobbies, but I do. I shoot. I hunt, shoot competitively and for recreation. I have several firearms. Over the past year I have seen prices skyrocket on AR-15's. AR's that sold 1.5 years ago for $650 were selling for over 2K .. this was all brought on by the tragedy in Newtown Ct.. same with ammunition. I could buy 500 rds of .223 for $100. The last can I bought was over $275. This was brought on buy panic and further facilitated by profiteers. That is the difference. I know a gentleman who spent over 28,000 on AR's last Feb. he bought 7 rifles and 10, 100 rd "Beta" mags. He is now losing his shirt on these rifles because the panic is over. Making a buck is one thing, profiteering is quite another. quoted for posterity Edited September 22, 2013 by southpier
Ace-Garageguy Posted September 22, 2013 Posted September 22, 2013 They do not "let them" roll. Keep in mind, this seller has to pay listing fees. Ebay earns money each time this seller lists them. Ummm...not always. Listings are often qualified for free-re-listing. I DO NOT KNOW what the criteria is to qualify for free re-listing, but just yesterday I re-listed an item for a computer-challenged friend, and the LISTING was free. The commissions still apply in the event of a sale, of course.
sjordan2 Posted September 22, 2013 Posted September 22, 2013 Bill, I'd love to have a few beers with you one day and just see where the conversation goes. I think it would be a blast.I think we should ALL have beers together. And see who's left alive. I'm up for Chicago, my favorite beer joint town on earth, with lots of pizza on the table.
Ace-Garageguy Posted September 22, 2013 Posted September 22, 2013 Bill, I'd love to have a few beers with you one day and just see where the conversation goes. I think it would be a blast. Next time I'm in your part of the world, I'll look you up. First round is on me.
Ace-Garageguy Posted September 22, 2013 Posted September 22, 2013 I think we should ALL have beers together. And see who's left alive. I'm up for Chicago, my favorite beer joint town on earth, with lots of pizza on the table. Oh yeah, pizza AND beer. I'm definitely all for that.
Tom Geiger Posted September 22, 2013 Posted September 22, 2013 (edited) I think we should ALL have beers together. And see who's left alive. I'm up for Chicago, my favorite beer joint town on earth, with lots of pizza on the table. You're all invited to the NNL Eats, the Friday evening before NNL East. Each year we all hoist a few and catch up with one another! It's as fun as the show... well almost! Oh, and I am having a few beers with ya'll right now! Edited September 22, 2013 by Tom Geiger
Harry P. Posted September 22, 2013 Posted September 22, 2013 Hmmm.... beer... pizza...good conversation... what's not to like? Someone has to coordinate this thing and make it happen. Skip, in. Bill, in. Me, in. Any more?
jeffs396 Posted September 22, 2013 Posted September 22, 2013 I'm in, but I think geographically we're all a bit too far apart for this to be feasible
Harry P. Posted September 23, 2013 Posted September 23, 2013 I'm in, but I think geographically we're all a bit too far apart for this to be feasible Yeah, that's the problem. Unless, of course, you all are up for coming to Chicago!
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