Bare Metal Foil.

[jrherald420]

For you guys only getting 2 models out of a sheet, your doing it wrong!! Ive got 4 cars done out of less than half a sheet. What excess i cut off i put back on the sheet and reuse. I have never had a problem with touching it and it not sticking either. Cant say much about the excess glue, ive only had it happen once and i just used some masking tape to pull it off without any problems. I find BMF rather easy to use once you learn how to apply it! Ive got my time down to about 30 mins for all windows and wheel trim.

[Harry P.]

I have to agree with the guys who say you can pull up unburnished foil and reposition it... I do it all the time. I also touch the glue side as I apply the foil, never ever have had foil that's been burnished down come off a model. I also put pieces of "waste" that are large enough to save back onto the backing sheet... have been doing it for years and never had a problem reusing those pieces to foil small areas. And I try to cut the piece of foil with as little waste as possible, I don't do the "three times wider than you need" thing.

Sounds like Tom may own stock in the company!

[Erik Smith]

It's not perfect, but it's the best we have.

I've never really had issues beyond user error. Make sure the surface is perfectly smooth. Try to pull it off the sheet without wrinkling it or allowing it to fold onto itself, use a moist toothpick to burnish, polish with soft cloth, use new sharp blade (scalpel blades if you can find them), paint tip of blade black (sharpie), and don't be afraid to remove, discard, and try again.

I have also found MM chrome enamel works very well for touch up - small areas you miss or areas that tear while burnishing or on seems you want to hide.

[cobraman]

Getting 2 or 4 cars done with a sheet of BMF can depend on the car. Some cars just use more foil than others. I too have peeled up and laid it back down without any problems.

[my80malibu]

My issues with the BMF is having it stick and lay down properly around vent windows. Lately I have been rescribing trim areas, before I paint which has help quite a bit at trimming during the foil stage.

[freakshow12]

That's exactally how I do them. One piece then I relief cut the middle and work it all around. I also study the trim on whatever car I am doing and make my joins or overlaps where the 1:1 pieces join or overlap wherever possible

[Harry P.]

I also study the trim on whatever car I am doing and make my joins or overlaps where the 1:1 pieces join or overlap wherever possible

Good idea.

[sjordan2]

One thing about foiling vent windows. There are so many cases where fully foiled vent windows don't look realistic to me. Real windows have seals in the frames -- felt or rubber, which should be black or dark gray -- and it makes more sense to me to paint the inside edges with a chrome type paint, add the seal color, and just use the BMF for the outer and inner surfaces instead of wrapping all the way around.

[freakshow12]

A black wash does wonders for that very thing. That's how I do that part. I hate vent windows so usually any build that is anything but a bone stock subject the disappear. Amazing how that small mod can change how a vehicle looks

[tabsscale1]

I also think it sticks almost too well... it's tough to get the excess off.

But my biggest complaint is that when you apply it to a mirror-smooth surface and burnish it down, it still has a slightly bumpy texture.

I have noticed the same thing Harry. Really ruins the look you are going after. The 55 chevy I am working on right now after I removed the excess I had to relly burnish it down to get it to look nice.

[Art Anderson]

One thing about foiling vent windows. There are so many cases where fully foiled vent windows don't look realistic to me. Real windows have seals in the frames -- felt or rubber, which should be black or dark gray -- and it makes more sense to me to paint the inside edges with a chrome type paint, add the seal color, and just use the BMF for the outer and inner surfaces instead of wrapping all the way around.

Old fashioned vent wings have an inside rubber seal forward of the pivot points, and a visible outer black rubber seal on their trailing edge, next to the chrome plated vertical "post". Seldom do they "wrap" visibly to the outside, all the way around the opening. Best to check for pics of the real car just to be certain.

Art

[Ramfins59]

I've been able to finish an average of about 2 to 3 cars with a sheet of BMF, and some of the 50's cars I've been building take A LOT of foil. I cut pieces roughly twice as wide as the trim I'm covering and at least an eighth to a quarter of an inch longer. Yes, there is the waste factor but I don't find that to be much of an issue for me. I'd rather use a piece that is slightly larger than have to go back and cut another piece because I didn't use enough the first time around. I peel the BMF off of the backing with a tweezer and try my best to position it without touching the adhesive backing with my fingers. Once in place a QTip burnishes it onto the trim, followed by a softened toothpick on the edges, in creases and around details. Any tears or small missed spots get touched up with chrome silver paint. BMF work may not be my most favorite chore in modeling, but I'm not afraid of doing it, nor am I intimidated by it.

[Tom Geiger]

I have to agree with the guys who say you can pull up unburnished foil and reposition it... I do it all the time. I also touch the glue side as I apply the foil, never ever have had foil that's been burnished down come off a model. I also put pieces of "waste" that are large enough to save back onto the backing sheet... have been doing it for years and never had a problem reusing those pieces to foil small areas. And I try to cut the piece of foil with as little waste as possible, I don't do the "three times wider than you need" thing.

Sounds like Tom may own stock in the company!

Harry, you are obviously a highly skilled modeler. My advise is to newbies and those who are upset that they are getting poor results. Those issues that I point out are generally the reasons, and if they followed this advise they'd get better and eventually develop good skills. Essentially the message is to concentrate on getting a good result rather than chincing on the product. Once they reach a certain skill level they'll learn how to do the things you do effectively.

Note that my last statement in the post was:

"Concentrate on making your model look good, not how much product you will use. You will get good results and you will use less product as you get better."

Edited December 5, 2013 by Tom Geiger

[Art Anderson]

Harry, you are obviously a highly skilled modeler. My advise is to newbies and those who are upset that they are getting poor results. Those issues that I point out are generally the reasons, and if they followed this advise they'd get better and eventually develop good skills. Essentially the message is to concentrate on getting a good result rather than chincing on the product. Once they reach a certain skill level they'll learn how to do the things you do effectively.

Note that my last statement in the post was:

"Concentrate on making your model look good, not how much product you will use. You will get good results and you will use less product as you get better."

FWIW, I've been using BMF since the early 1970's, and what Tom G. points out is still excellent advice! I have done very much the same things all along. If nothing else, a number of years demonstrating the stuff to "newbies" by doing short "clinics" at club meetings (I've been a member of IPMS Souders-Earhart since its founding in 1976, and Lafayette Miniature Car Club since it began in 1991), and in the hobby shop I owned for a number of years here--I think I've learned a thing or two along the way as well.

One thing, Harry, that you mention is the tendency of BMF to lay down with a bumpy, or slightly grainy look to it. As near as I can figure out, that's the adhesive, which as you no doubt know, is a low-medium tack adhesive, not unlike that used on Post-It notes. Over time, I've had good success in smoothing that down, simply by polishing the foil down (once laid on, burnished into details and trimmed) using an old COTTON tee shirt (note I said cotton, as cotton-polyester blend tricot -- that's the term for the type of knit pattern used in Tee's--as polyester will leave scratches behind, while cotton won't), and polishing with a pretty firm pressure. I know that I've done the job thus, when I see the foil smooth down, which it does in this, and I have a blackish "stain" on the cotton knit from polishing the foil.

Another little "trick" I have is using an ordinary "push-click" mechanical pencil that uses .5mm lead. The "lead", which of course is actually graphite will work the foil into the finest of surface details, and since graphite is itself a dry lubricant, the pencil lead slides very nicely over the foil and very rarely does it tear the foil.

Art

[booboo60]

Hate it too, little late to the conversation, but I have a grumpy Jenkins Toy Camaro, that I slipped and dropped a piece and ..well it took the side stripes n the grumpy toy logo off the side of the car,, dangerous stuff..lol

[jrherald420]

Sounds like user error to me.......

[cobraman]

Did you clear coat before you did the BMF ?

[booboo60]

Yup, user F up, and, no, didn't clear yet at that time. Sucked.

[cartpix]

Art, thanks for the pencil tip. Never too old to learn new tricks. I can't wait to give it a try. I hate it when I tear foil, while trying to get it into tight spots. I'll try the tee shirt, too. I usually use Q-Tips, but they tend to leave tiny scratches.

Jeff

[jbwelda]

thanks for that tip on the pencil lead, I have an excellent opportunity to follow that coming up soon!

jb

[jrherald420]

Tamiya makes 2 sizes of pointed Q-tips that works great for getting the foil into the tight spots. Hobby Lobby sells them for about 5.00 a 50 pack.

https://www.tamiyausa.com/items/paints-finishes-60/tamiya-maintenance-material-62000/craft-cotton-swab-87105

Edited December 20, 2013 by jrherald420

[clovis]

Interesting thread.

After reading it, I am both nervous and encouraged to try BMF for the first time.

[jrherald420]

Do it. Its not too hard to do.

[5.0man]

Hasegawa Mirror Finish foil is the best....

[Brett Barrow]

A co-worker (my boss, actually) wanted me to teach him how to use BMF yesterday, and we used a fresh "New and Improved" sheet and I was really impressed, it's been a while since I've used any BMF and this was the first time I've used the new version, it went on and laid down smooth very easy, it didn't stick too hard where I didn't want it, the excess peeled up in one piece (instead of in little tiny chunks), didn't tear even with a cheap old hobby knife (his, not mine!), I only had to redo one piece due to my own cutting mistake. I never found BMF that hard to work with before, but the new improved stuff seemed to work much better for me than I remember the old stuff.

Edited January 3, 2014 by Brett Barrow