Cato Posted April 12, 2015 Author Share Posted April 12, 2015 Fair warning... In an abrupt change from interior work, (anything to avoid making those seats!) and after exhaustive research, I learned I could get exactly the look I was after from the finished car. All I had to do was hack, drill, saw and sand on my sweetheart. Now you may be sick of this opera by now but I've just added more months to the project. I will supply No-Doze to any still riding along. This view, taken months earlier shows the arrangement of the body panels to each other. Note that the brace rod between radiator and firewall rises at the rear to meet the firewall. Well that ain't the way they were: that was Pocher's solution. The entire hood top line was flat from front to rear. Having followed Pocher and Koo got me to this point. Now research has taught me that the body can be channeled, the floor lowered, and the windscreen and top chopped. Not for the faint of heart however. This knowledge came to me by studying the fantastic custom models of David Cox at his site: http://www.detailedmodelcars.com/ Yes, this will still be a classic Rolls Sedanca, not a rat rod, Blastolene, custom or low rider. Just a lot more how they REALLY looked. I've been working through the alignments and architecture for some time now and plastic and metal have been sacrificed and the camera clicking. I will soon post the idea for any I haven't already alienated. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobthehobbyguy Posted April 12, 2015 Share Posted April 12, 2015 Silly question why not adjust the grill up a tad. Going the other way seems like a lot of work unless you are a glutton for punishment. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cato Posted April 12, 2015 Author Share Posted April 12, 2015 Silly question why not adjust the grill up a tad. Going the other way seems like a lot of work unless you are a glutton for punishment. Not silly. Changing the radiator moves upper and lower hoses, the brace rod and shutter control rod. The fan will hit the stuff (instead of the other way around ). But the main reason is it makes the nose aspect all wrong - too high. The key is lowering the body. That's the way they were. It will get more clear when I post pictures. Yes a lot of work - yes a glutton... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobthehobbyguy Posted April 12, 2015 Share Posted April 12, 2015 Ok that makes sense. Just curious how much is the difference , its hard to tell. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cato Posted April 12, 2015 Author Share Posted April 12, 2015 Ok that makes sense. Just curious how much is the difference , its hard to tell. I have removed the Pocher cowl spacers which lowers it and makes the brace rod dead level. That gets me close. That was 3/16". Still need to get the floor flat to the frame and adjust body height until I hit the sweet spot. The goal is a perfectly flat hood line, with a smooth coachline and equal louver heights; changes in one place affect many other adjoining areas. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cato Posted April 18, 2015 Author Share Posted April 18, 2015 Getting somewhere... A lot has been done but I'll just show where it got me to. Here is an early photo to give understanding to what's been done. It's a close shot of the firewall and how it sits on the chassis according to Pocher. Note the rectangular wood block between the floor and chassis rail. See that the firewall is spaced off the frame by .250". The high firewall raises the body front even higher. This causes the hood to slope downward from the firewall to the radiator - the originals were flat: The object is to get the floor (which attaches to the body side sills) to rest on the frame (thereby lowering it) to give the correct proportions the 1:1 had. Another earlier view showing that the cowl is raised above the firewall (a huge ugly gap) and the step between the firewall and cowl. Clearly the body front edge is much higher than the radiator. This would be an out of box assembly: After much cutting, grinding, slotting and bracket removal, here's where it is now. Firewall sits flush on the frame, Body is channeled roughly .250" and cowl sits atop the firewall. This lowers the rear of the hood line making a straight line from radiator to body. The entire floor will sit on the frame at front (hadn't been slotted completely in this shot; it now sits flat) and nearly flush in rear. This will also lower the rear fender tire clearance. The louvers and side panels now have different relationships and will need sectioning and material added to give a straight louver line and hood sides that rest on the frame, not overlap. Just careful measuring and fitting to come: Now with the help of a little editing, a look at where we're going. To visually lower the car's aspect in addition to the actual lowering done so far, the door rear window track and door top edge have been removed: And here the windscreen frame and top have been chopped roughly 5/16". Compare to the second photo above: Much has been done so far but much remains to get all the various proportions to play with each other. All this advanced work has come from studying the Dave Cox site and conversations with him. It's giving me the model I'd always hoped. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sjordan2 Posted April 18, 2015 Share Posted April 18, 2015 Looking fabulous, like a 1:1 in a restoration shop. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ken Gilkeson Posted April 20, 2015 Share Posted April 20, 2015 you are doing an amazing build. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southpier Posted April 20, 2015 Share Posted April 20, 2015 wow; you've got that body in a double-suplex! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Twokidsnosleep Posted April 20, 2015 Share Posted April 20, 2015 wow; you've got that body in a double-suplex! I laughed hysterically at that comment...well done Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cato Posted April 20, 2015 Author Share Posted April 20, 2015 :lol: When things go badly, I resort to the Full Nelson! Thanks all... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cato Posted April 22, 2015 Author Share Posted April 22, 2015 Flights of fancy... When radically altering a design, I've learned that the most important thing is to coordinate all the elements. Adding the stock trunk changes everything we've altered for the sake of refinement by putting a big box on the back end. Note that there are myriad detail changes required after the big elements are altered; things like the coach line, louvers, running boards and hood cut lines. Please pardon the poor photo editing but it does help one visualize proposed changes. The actual work to achieve the lowness will be shown in coming photos. The floor is now finalized as is the firewall which is bolted in place and the foundation for all the body structural work. A LOT of cutting and slotting was needed. The body rear is lowered by 4mm over the rails, giving a much better tire gap (seen below) at the rear. The front fender was finalized months ago and now the rear matches that lowered position. Here is the current state before any further alterations; remember some of the previous shots were edited to show where I want it to be. To review, here the body has been channeled and the floor lowered to the frame top. The door top has had a 'digital' cut at the top edge. The hood is no longer raked down to the grille; it's flat as all Phantoms were: Now we see what sectioning (lowering) the trunk does; a smoother-flowing belt line from the now-flat hood top to trunk top. The top and windshield post has been digitally chopped; the post 5mm, the top about 7mm. Probably need to take at least 5mm out of the trunk: A more daring idea shows the trunk rear wall angled to add to the visual movement of the whole design. Many 1:1 Phantoms had custom trunks just like this. Remember the exposed spare tire will be mounted and angled there too. I'm not sure if I'll go that far but am leaning that way (pun intended). Your thoughts? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sjordan2 Posted April 22, 2015 Share Posted April 22, 2015 The raked trunk at the bottom shot doesn't seem pleasing to me. When you look at the curves at the top of the door molding and the bottom of the sedanca top, the progression to the trunk doesn't look right. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Twokidsnosleep Posted April 22, 2015 Share Posted April 22, 2015 Wholy cow you are braver than I, this is big time work my friend I cold use some of my trunk and spare tire removed too Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chunkypeanutbutter Posted April 23, 2015 Share Posted April 23, 2015 Rake the trunk. After looking at it for a while, the unedited one looks far too big and bulky. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cato Posted April 23, 2015 Author Share Posted April 23, 2015 Hmmm, we need a tie-breaker... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobthehobbyguy Posted April 23, 2015 Share Posted April 23, 2015 (edited) The trunk does look a little out of place. How about something like this? Edited April 23, 2015 by bobthehobbyguy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Twokidsnosleep Posted April 23, 2015 Share Posted April 23, 2015 I like the second pic smaller trunk as well The esthetic and balance is better than the flat large junk-in-the-trunk look You really are blowing me away with this, good for you Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cato Posted April 23, 2015 Author Share Posted April 23, 2015 Strangely, the stock Pocher trunk (mine was already sectioned 1/8" vertically when I moved the body back) is a faithful repro of the Gurney Nutting 'standard' (mean frequently chosen) trunk on their Sedanca Phantoms. I found many examples of the 'RY' chassis number cars bodied by them most appealing and what I'm striving for. Bob makes a good point and these cars had a myriad of styles just for trunks alone. That's not a bad look for the fuller fender cars but mine has the abbreviated (sides cut away) type. I will continue to noodle on this as I prepare now to cut the top; a scary moment... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sjordan2 Posted April 23, 2015 Share Posted April 23, 2015 (edited) At one point, you talked about having a more rounded trunk lid. Whichever approach you choose, I think that would match the horizontal lines well. Edited April 23, 2015 by sjordan2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobthehobbyguy Posted April 23, 2015 Share Posted April 23, 2015 A slightly rounded edge on the trunk which also match the rounded edge of the roof. Just a thought. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cato Posted April 23, 2015 Author Share Posted April 23, 2015 Although the trunk top (or lid) is rectangular, it does have a 'dome' or crown to it at the four corners. . When I get the final body mount position, that will determine how much the roof needs to come down. That will indicate how much the trunk should come down. Everything is inter-related. Still debating the angled back wall but much to be done before that final decision. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LaughingIndian Posted April 25, 2015 Share Posted April 25, 2015 You have to see it with the spare if you go that way. My opinion is to match the crown of the trunk with that of the sedanca top first (like Bob's examples), decide on the spare, and then check the trunk angle. Either way, it'll be an improvement over the straight trunk. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cato Posted April 25, 2015 Author Share Posted April 25, 2015 You have to see it with the spare if you go that way. My opinion is to match the crown of the trunk with that of the sedanca top first (like Bob's examples), decide on the spare, and then check the trunk angle. Either way, it'll be an improvement over the straight trunk. You are correct Mike; the reason this takes me forever is the need to test-fit every change with all the other parts in place. Dis and re assembling the main parts many times. Then photos to study. So if I build a new angled trunk form, I'll drill for the spare mounting post and put the spare on for visuals. I have not yet ruled out the square edged trunk; I have many shots of Gurney cars that have it and they're beautiful. They have a charm that is stately and sporty at the same time. Ignore that the fenders are different than mine but here's one: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sjordan2 Posted April 25, 2015 Share Posted April 25, 2015 (edited) Your example looks good to me. Note how the curved molding at the top of the door sweeps down to the upward curve at the bottom of the roof, which meets the curve at the top of the trunk. An excellent replica of the car in your example can be built with the 1/16 Revell Phantom II Continental kit. Edited April 25, 2015 by sjordan2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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