LaughingIndian Posted April 26, 2015 Share Posted April 26, 2015 I'm now seeing your dilemma Cato. This last photo exemplifies RR carriage design - it's all over the place. As Skip pointed out the door moulding lines into the soft top and curves down and up to the front of the slightly rounded top. But I see that same door moulding sweeps into the rear fender line as well. There's what looks like a superfluous molded line in the soft top that sweeps around and intersects the fender line perpendicularly. The soft top practically exists as its own element design wise, as does the trunk. I'm guessing that although the components are attempted to juxtapose with one another, the priority of the design is within the carriage itself with the fenders reflecting the lines - somewhat. Secondary to that are the attached elements like the soft top, trunk and spare. When the fenders have side fairings the aero look is carried further in the fixed top and attached trunk like Bob's example. I now feel like your Sedanca, with its open fenders and fixed, simple (although elegant) top should maybe avoid that aero look, and I can understand your second-guessing and thinking of staying with the rectangular trunk. Good luck, but I got a feeling you'll make the right choice whatever it is ... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cato Posted April 26, 2015 Author Share Posted April 26, 2015 Thanks Mike and Skip for taking time to post a meaningful discussion. That was one priority I'd hoped for when I started this WIP. I largely agree with you Mike. You see my reason for more than casual consideration of the style elements. Virtually all of the Gurney cars seen on the web have the full, Rollston-style fenders seen here. But the Pocher fenders were not a fabrication; they were modeled after real cars. Many can be seen in Ray Gentile's (owner of 201 RY) book. In Gentile's frequent interviews with RR Chief Design Engineer Ivan Evernden, it was revealed that trunks and spares (sometimes two) were hung back there to offset forward weight bias. Getting the spares off the front fenders was more than a style trick. It would also provide spacious storage for the car's main mission; intercontinental travel. So some were spec'd by owners to be practical and other to be jaunty. In my view at this time, neither is 'bad' or 'wrong' for the car's style although some are more attractive than others. I'm still making piles of plastic dust while pondering this so they'll be stuff to see soon. Three major hardpoints have been finalized; the firewall and now the entire floor and body location. I've finally got the rear tire gaps where I want them. This baby will be lean and low. Planning and doing is all the fun... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ken Gilkeson Posted April 26, 2015 Share Posted April 26, 2015 Cato you are building properly. great job, great taste and feel for the marque. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cato Posted April 27, 2015 Author Share Posted April 27, 2015 Thanks Ken. Building the model has gotten me heavily into researching the history and nuances of P II's. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sjordan2 Posted April 27, 2015 Share Posted April 27, 2015 Thanks Ken. Building the model has gotten me heavily into researching the history and nuances of P II's. I assume you have copies of my reference CDs. What other reference material do you have, and what do you want? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cato Posted April 27, 2015 Author Share Posted April 27, 2015 I assume you have copies of my reference CDs. What other reference material do you have, and what do you want? They have been vital. At Cox's suggestion, I bought Gentile's book; it's excellent and only P II's. Plus my own year + of searches. I'm good now because I've about finalized the plans in my mind. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sjordan2 Posted April 27, 2015 Share Posted April 27, 2015 The Gentile book is the best. You'd have to amass a variety of books to do better. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gtx6970 Posted April 28, 2015 Share Posted April 28, 2015 I dont get to this section very much. But after reading thru some of this thread I think I need to stop in here more often. This build is AMAZING. No way would I even consider taking on such a build.,,,,,but I commend you all that have. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cato Posted April 28, 2015 Author Share Posted April 28, 2015 Thanks Bill. Stop by when you can. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cato Posted May 5, 2015 Author Share Posted May 5, 2015 Haven't quit yet... Even though I've been off the board for a bit, work has progressed almost daily. Mostly the design phase and study how to implement the proposed changes above. But this week, quite a bit of styrene dust has been created. I have channeled the body roughly 3/8" and have the cowl / hood joint flat - like 1:1, not Pochers. The floor and chassis have been heavily modified for this. I've selected the dimensions and am now prepared to cut the top and windscreen. And door tops. And inner door panels, One thing leads to several others in this maze. After that, reassembly and full dress with fenders to select the sizing of the hood side panels and getting the louvers all straight - a big visual point on 1:1. I will post photos soon. But just to hopefully peak your interest, an additional, major design change is now finalized on paper (or screen actually). I have seen no Pocher Rolls with this feature and only one 1:1 in all my research. It's complex but I thought I'd try it because it promises the car I've wanted. I surely would have had an OOB build done by now. But this has become way more than a 'relaxing hobby'. More soon. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LaughingIndian Posted May 5, 2015 Share Posted May 5, 2015 Can't wait ... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cato Posted May 5, 2015 Author Share Posted May 5, 2015 That noise you hear... -is the band saw warming up. GULP... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cato Posted May 6, 2015 Author Share Posted May 6, 2015 Sentence carried out... Everything just placed, not glued. Empty space on left side body shows cut removed; 6mm x 13mm. Tape at windscreen top shows 5mm cut (to come). Tape on door shows where new lower door top line will be. Coachline removed from rear sections and door will be done also. New coachline for all. The roof does not end at the cut line; about 1/4" lower, close to the new door top edge. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harry P. Posted May 6, 2015 Share Posted May 6, 2015 You're crazy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Belugawrx Posted May 6, 2015 Share Posted May 6, 2015 Very nice detail work going on here Cato Subtle customs are very difficult to achieve properly I'm glad you are taking your time with this.... Cheers Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cato Posted May 6, 2015 Author Share Posted May 6, 2015 You're crazy. You're gonna build a fricken station wagon, and I'm crazy... Nice to see you again... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cato Posted May 7, 2015 Author Share Posted May 7, 2015 Thank you Bruce...a man that understands. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harry P. Posted May 7, 2015 Share Posted May 7, 2015 You're gonna build a fricken station wagon, and I'm crazy... Point taken... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eric Macleod Posted May 7, 2015 Share Posted May 7, 2015 Cato, Nice to see you are back at it. I agree, the mild chop to the top should help the appearance of this one considerably. Good to have you back. E- Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eric Macleod Posted May 7, 2015 Share Posted May 7, 2015 In the two cents worth department how about a compromise-something like a round edged trunk like a '34 Packard Dietrich Convertible Victoria but squared up shape? I would also play around with the notion of dual rear spares just for fun. (and of course another week of building up another wheel!) Looking good. E- Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cato Posted May 7, 2015 Author Share Posted May 7, 2015 In the two cents worth department how about a compromise-something like a round edged trunk like a '34 Packard Dietrich Convertible Victoria but squared up shape? I would also play around with the notion of dual rear spares just for fun. (and of course another week of building up another wheel!) Looking good. E- Ixnay on another spare Eric. I pressed my luck to get 5 done without breakage. And yes, I am strongly considering a sloped-back trunk with soft edges... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cato Posted May 9, 2015 Author Share Posted May 9, 2015 Big first step... Here's the first test-fit of the roof cut. What you're seeing; the pie-cut is 13mm at front, 6mm at rear, tipping the roof downward in front. The white stipe under the tape is a shim, needed to get both side of roof exacly the same. The actual bottom edge of the top fabric will be below that; the roof is not that short when completed. The roof center section has not yet been cut, only heated and bent downward to keep the rear window from being too small or moving it. The body is tipped-up at the rear because the center is stock height. It will trimmed about 6mm at the bottom edge. This puts the floor dead flat on the frame again. A sub floor will be created to cover all the holes slotted in for crossmember clearance. So the seats have something to bolt to. Also, the previously upholstered and 'wood-trimmed' side panels will need modification to accommodate the new forward roof slant. And the trunk will need serious sectioning as it now is much too high. That's if I don't make a whole new one with sloped back. See? One change leads to many others: To compliment the proportions of the chop, the windscreen frame is cut 3mm. That meant the completed instrument panel inner frame needed to be cut 3mm also. The IP is showing the finished height of the assembly. The sharp-eyed will note the holes in the completed IP; the new MMC chromed bronze switches will go there to add excellent, accurate detail. The cowl below it shows the fresh cut. It will be joined and the seams filled. Running through the photo is the 3/32" square channel brass that will be formed to fit within the cowl opening and into which the .040 Lexan windscreen will be installed - after the brass is chromed. Making the curved corner bends will be done by cutting the channel legs and soldering in brass fill. The object is a smooth seamless curve, all in chrome. This will make the actual glass opening smaller than you see by 3/16" -not a 'mail slot' but noticeably more correct than Pocher stock: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cato Posted May 11, 2015 Author Share Posted May 11, 2015 The coordinating cut of the windshield frame. With the addition of a fabricated brass channel (the glass sits in the channel like 1:1) frame for the Lexan windscreen. Pocher omitted this important visual detail. Brass shim tabs will be soldered into the curved corners then this will be chromed after completion as will the side and rear window frames. The straight brass channel shows the new height of the glass. The curved one at top is scrap to allow handling safely. This (minus the opening feature) is what we're trying for. Beautiful Sedanca built by David Cox and Marvin Meit of Model Motorcars: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cato Posted May 13, 2015 Author Share Posted May 13, 2015 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sjordan2 Posted May 13, 2015 Share Posted May 13, 2015 There are no words. I'm familiar with many builds of this kit, but I've never seen anything like this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.