Cato Posted May 22, 2015 Author Share Posted May 22, 2015 No I didn't leave town... I have been working steadily around our life situations but don't have show 'n tell stuff quite ready (although photos taken). I have made 4 brass windshield frames to finally get a satisfactory one to keep. Very tedious making the curved, solder-filled corners and getting the shape bent to match the cowl opening. Keeping the solder from flowing into the channels (so the Lexan rests in the channel like 1:1) has been a major learning curve for me. Shortly I will make frames for windwings and side glass as well as the rear glass. More brass and solder work but no bends. Then hopefully the chroming process. I have also heavily reworked the chopped styrene cowl / windshield surround and removed the beltline as molded by Pocher. Mine will have extensive body massaging as well as a new beltline. Bondo dust has been flying... Because this is such a highly visible area, I have been sweating bullets to get the shapes, planes and proportion right. Time will tell but that's why this all takes me so long. Others more skilled routinely fly through these steps. Things to see soon... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Twokidsnosleep Posted May 22, 2015 Share Posted May 22, 2015 Can't wait to see!!! Wood in the channels to keep solder out was my first brain flash...interested to see what you did Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cato Posted May 22, 2015 Author Share Posted May 22, 2015 Can't wait to see!!! Wood in the channels to keep solder out was my first brain flash...interested to see what you did Folded tin foil (made .040 thick) and .005 baking pan sheet... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Twokidsnosleep Posted May 22, 2015 Share Posted May 22, 2015 (edited) Folded tin foil (made .040 thick) and .005 baking pan sheet... Ahhhh very good, solder won't stick to aluminum Like to see a pic of that soldering set up if you took one Edited May 22, 2015 by Twokidsnosleep Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southpier Posted May 22, 2015 Share Posted May 22, 2015 i have a sneaking suspicion the work will be well worth it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cato Posted May 22, 2015 Author Share Posted May 22, 2015 Here's how... CliffsNotes version. Tools: Low watt iron / silver solder / liquid flux / Rosary Beads. Cut cowl top 3mm. Make form (aluminum, balsa - just not whipped cream) to shape of inner edges of Pocher cowl. Get brass square channel. Cut length ~9" long. Anneal to dull red. Find the corners of the opening, then kerf with .014 saw blade. Bend inner and outer edges on form. Place bent frame on soldering plate or board. Solder scrap cross leg at very top of verticals for strength to hold the shape. Fill channel in corners with folded tin foil to prevent filling with solder. Lay in solder to fill kerfs; do both corners, inner and outer. Your life will crawl past you during this process. Using every file in your tool chest file for days and refill divots as needed. Consider but reject suicide. When you've had enough, polish with 220, 400, 600 and 1000 paper. On plastic cowl: Sand off all Pocher molded beltline (we're making our own new one). Add 010 and 015 plastic to top bar to even the surfaces. Bondo the plastic crossbar and side of legs - they taper in two directions. Fill corners to match because you couldn't get the brass in that tight radius without breakage. Make dummy windshield of 040 styrene which will be template for Lexan. Install in frame for rigidity. Fit frame into plastic cowl. See all the gaps; bend / shim / pull / stretch as needed. Guess at clearance for paint thickness. Learn new swear words. Make crossbar from new channel. Un-solder top brace. Cut 45's on ends precisely inside the plastic. Mark the vertical legs of the main hoop and match the angles of the crossbar. The verticals are less than 90's because they taper outward. Relaxin' hobby huh? Polish all elements in prep for trip to chrome lake. Tutorial gladly provided for masochists in the bleachers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LaughingIndian Posted May 22, 2015 Share Posted May 22, 2015 You're gonna have to use some really thin weatherstripping ... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Twokidsnosleep Posted May 22, 2015 Share Posted May 22, 2015 You're gonna have to use some really thin weatherstripping ... ........and some rum, I would suggest lots of rum after all that, maybe during Haha rosary beads had me laughing Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cato Posted May 22, 2015 Author Share Posted May 22, 2015 ........and some rum, I would suggest lots of rum after all that, maybe during Haha rosary beads had me laughing Yeah, I'm all out of Vodka... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eric Macleod Posted May 27, 2015 Share Posted May 27, 2015 This continues to be most amazing. The work to create these radius must have been horrific. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cato Posted May 27, 2015 Author Share Posted May 27, 2015 (edited) This continues to be most amazing. The work to create these radius must have been horrific. Thanks Eric. I have a total of 39 hours in the windshield frame; I had to make 4 to get this one good one. It's a learning / cutting / soldering / filing / polishing process. Others may work a lot faster. Now 'just' the side and rear window frames to go... Edited May 27, 2015 by Cato Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cato Posted June 5, 2015 Author Share Posted June 5, 2015 A better idea... Of where this is going. Shown here is the overall proportion and attitude after the following alterations: Top pie-cut 13mm x 4m, body channeled nearly 3/8", lower body edge trimmed 5mm, rear fender rotated forward a bit, The fender leading edge will be trimmed to match the running boards. The door top will be trimmed as seen here. The cowl is not attached here; the post is the door post and will be removed for the windwings and side glass.The trunk will be modified, sloped and shortened. A new coaachline, running from grille, across doors and wrap around the rear body will dip at the top similar to the stock Gurney Sedanca line. Note how the body overhangs the frame rail so deeply. Compare the rear ride height and top shape and height with early photos - it's vastly different. Most of these major elements of style are now in place. Just a lot of work and panel fitting to go. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LaughingIndian Posted June 5, 2015 Share Posted June 5, 2015 What great work. Judging by the intact door moulding in the background of the photo, I assume this is the actual model ... so I imagine pondering a boattail is too late ... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cato Posted June 5, 2015 Author Share Posted June 5, 2015 What great work. Judging by the intact door moulding in the background of the photo, I assume this is the actual model ... so I imagine pondering a boattail is too late ... Yes this is it in the plastic. The only graphic alterations are where I covered seams at the top cut, the proposed cut at the door top edge and some of the Bondo spots - to give a clearer idea of the overall proportions. Funny, I was never a fan of the boat tail on the Hispanos, Packards or Rollers. It seems an element not in harmony with the rest of those designs. Besides Mike, I'm up to my eyeballs in work on this already... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LaughingIndian Posted June 6, 2015 Share Posted June 6, 2015 Besides Mike, I'm up to my eyeballs in work on this already... I can only imagine. I was teasing you because you had me flipping back and forth a few pages comparing your design with the product above. I agree about the boat tail. The RRs are just too long and high for that stuff ... maybe a speedster ... ? Seriously though, your redo on the Pocher is spot on. The channelled and lowered body compliments the car's great length by raising the relative wheel height. I think the proportions are outstanding. The lines are improved as well. The hood line of a RR sets it apart and your reflecting that line through the car gives it more emphasis. The Pocher straight fenders further support that simple elegance. I think you must now be confident in a straight-forward design on the trunk. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cato Posted June 6, 2015 Author Share Posted June 6, 2015 I can only imagine. I was teasing you because you had me flipping back and forth a few pages comparing your design with the product above. I agree about the boat tail. The RRs are just too long and high for that stuff ... maybe a speedster ... ? Seriously though, your redo on the Pocher is spot on. The channelled and lowered body compliments the car's great length by raising the relative wheel height. I think the proportions are outstanding. The lines are improved as well. The hood line of a RR sets it apart and your reflecting that line through the car gives it more emphasis. The Pocher straight fenders further support that simple elegance. I think you must now be confident in a straight-forward design on the trunk. Thanks for your kind comments and support Mike. I appreciate when someone takes time to look hard at a project and offer ideas and discussion. I originally posted a WIP exactly to get criticism and feedback, knowing I was not doing everyone's cup of tea. It also pleases me if anyone finds a method, tool or technique that is helpful or enjoyable to them. Yes the trunk is fixed in mind and on paper. It will be slightly less tall and have a sloped back wall and spare. This to enhance the forward-leaning, sleeker line. I've said that Gurney Nutting cars are my inspiration but am adding or changing elements of other designs to suit my idea of what I'd have ordered in the day. For instance, the windwings I will build are a trademark of coachbuilder Barker, but I love the jaunty aire they add to the car. My biggest (and only) complaint is the length of time it takes me to accomplish the build. I'm dying to see it in the flesh but complexity and life conspire to slow me down. I AM however getting a huge return on equity with a ton of extra build time. There's no boredom working just this one project. Others have built whole model collections in the same amount of time but I have no desire to do that. This is my bucket list. Discussion welcomed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LaughingIndian Posted June 6, 2015 Share Posted June 6, 2015 My biggest (and only) complaint is the length of time it takes me to accomplish the build. I'm dying to see it in the flesh but complexity and life conspire to slow me down. I AM however getting a huge return on equity with a ton of extra build time. There's no boredom working just this one project. Others have built whole model collections in the same amount of time but I have no desire to do that. This is my bucket list. Discussion welcomed. It's coincidence you say this because I was about to comment on your diligence with this build, but I didn't want to blabber on. However, I find it remarkable how you started with such a high level of quality and rather than take it to the end you continued to explore and create other avenues. What a fantastic mind. I model because it's a part of my life where I have complete control. The older we get the wiser we become about how existence is just a ride and we're not driving. Romeo Void said, "it's not the sun moving but us that's turning." And, as individuals, we can get overwhelmed. But when we're building or creating something, well sir, that is the epitome of an individual's existence. And your building is exquisite. Now I understand that your life may be full of many things that are beyond your control, but if two spare wheels are gonna make this a better build, then you know what you have to do ... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cato Posted June 7, 2015 Author Share Posted June 7, 2015 Discussion is not 'blabbing on'. Continue at will. After completing the chassis with a higher level of detail than the kit provided, I thought 'OK, hurry and finish the body / interior and we're building the display case!'. Then, just a little more research (constantly on-going) showed me the exterior was nowhere near what 1:1 had and Marvin and Cox's work showed me how to get closer to that. Then, down the rabbit hole to where I am now. Maybe added a another year to the project. Couldn't be happier. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cato Posted June 9, 2015 Author Share Posted June 9, 2015 Don't try this at home... To any Pocher daredevils out there who want to channel the body to get the model lower this will surely become obviously necessary. Having cut slots in the floor previously to sit it flush on the frame, it became time to make a sub floor to cover the holes. With a .060 thick sheet sub floor, the center crossmember still stood .050 above what would have been the top of the sub floor. Not wishing to shim the floor from below (raising it) thereby shifting the entire body up, I wanted to preserve the wheel / fender tight clearance I gained by channeling. What to do? Grind the offending crossmember by about .080. Yes I had structural concerns - until I tested by lifting the complete chassis by the crossmember. No sign of flex or stress. Just showing you it can be done. I had further ground the first crossmember by .030 which was all it needed to clear. Had I known months ago when chassis building, I'd have rotated the crossmembers several degrees fore or aft (there's clearance) and this would never have been an issue. A word to the wise... Here's the result: Now a very reasonable .030 floor can make the interior floor flat and the seats can be bolted in with a flat rug. Taking things for granted is not a good Pocher idea. Why would you think they'd provide two symmetrical rear fenders?? Only a fool like me would. Seen here with both fenders touching the same front and bottom lines is the fact that they have different curvatures. This would render two different tire clearances. Yes the camera's lens adds perspective but trust me that they're both on the same points. Reluctant to use heat or kerf the inners because the roundness may be kinked or flattened. Still pondering this one... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobthehobbyguy Posted June 9, 2015 Share Posted June 9, 2015 My suggestion would be to put some relief cuts in the fender you want to change to match one to the other. Maybe the fenders weren't symetrical on the car they measured Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cato Posted June 9, 2015 Author Share Posted June 9, 2015 My suggestion would be to put some relief cuts in the fender you want to change to match one to the other. Maybe the fenders weren't symetrical on the car they measured Since the inside of the fender has two different planes, kerfs would only alter the front or back of the curve. That would change the roundness which is part of the beauty of them. As I said, I'm afraid to heat or cut them for this reason. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobthehobbyguy Posted June 9, 2015 Share Posted June 9, 2015 How about cutting the side piece free, tweaking the fender , and reattach the side piece after modifying it to keep the new shape. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cato Posted June 9, 2015 Author Share Posted June 9, 2015 How about cutting the side piece free, tweaking the fender , and reattach the side piece after modifying it to keep the new shape. I'd like to make a one-piece back side but can't; the halves are two different planes. Would only free one half the fender. I'll shoot an end-on shot tomorrow which makes it easier to understand. Thanks for the suggestions Bob. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cato Posted June 9, 2015 Author Share Posted June 9, 2015 How about cutting the side piece free, tweaking the fender , and reattach the side piece after modifying it to keep the new shape. Here is the inside; the wider section is the rear. Note there's a narrow flange in front and a skirt on the rear half. I could: Kerf the front flange to stretch or narrow a bit. Cut the rear skirt away and make a new one , gluing it in with a tighter radius. The fear with either of these is to louse up the perfect top curve. Source a replacement to match either of mine. Leave it the heck alone because no one sees two sides of the car at once. ---Naaaaah, that ain't me.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harry P. Posted June 9, 2015 Share Posted June 9, 2015 Leave it the heck alone because no one sees two sides of the car at once. See now, that's what separates you and me. I go with that "solution" in a heartbeat and never look back... You, on the other hand, are so obsessive that you make me look like a total slacker! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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