Pocher Rolls Sedanca

[Harry P.]

Oh yeah, she will get done up right when the time is right.

Comes from a trusted source I have bought Pocher engines from so just couldn't resist. You meet the nicest people amongst  modellers and collectors. Still, paid a fortune for it.

This is Cato's party so I will post some pics when I get her, although he got me started on Pochers, so I blame him when I start getting yelled at 

My idle hands are always the devil's work

Ooooh, Bugatti!

The one Pocher I've never built and have been trying to snag forever. But price$ keep holding me back.

there are two on e bay right now for under 1k

That price will go waaaaaaay up.

[Twokidsnosleep]

Got mine for right around that USD's....it is the poor CAD and shipping that is the killer for me

last 30 seconds, snipe in your bid......just sayin

Idle hands?? You're a dentist ain't cha??

have had the week off packing, chucking and recycling stuff, vacuuming spiders up from the garage hauling heavy stuff

there is only so much a man can take ........before he needs another Pocher

I have no bench to even clear off right now, but will take some nice pics when she comes to my office storage space

Edited August 1, 2015 by Twokidsnosleep

[Cato]

OK I'll share a little secret...

I too have joined the Bugatti club. But just a tiny bit. I have decided that T-50 tail lamps would compliment my 'flying fenders' and streamlined look. They add another horizontal element and are certainly period correct. So here they are:

PS- The trunk is neither wet sanded or polished yet so no shiny stuff yet.

 

Edited August 1, 2015 by Cato

[Harry P.]

How did you get the Bugatti lights? Buy them a la carte on ebay?

[Cato]

How did you get the Bugatti lights? Buy them a la carte on ebay?

I got them from a UK Pocher part specialist. 'ScottHarv' om ebay here has a huge Pocher parts supply but didn't have these.

[Twokidsnosleep]

They do look pretty cool

[Cato]

A sort of update...

I have been heavily involved in hanging the doors (1 actually) since the last posting but today I stepped out of my sequence due to favorable weather; very low humidity and no wind, Perfect for paint. December is not so...

I prepped and shot the rear fenders. This is to color only, sanded between coats but not final sanded and cleared yet. That happens when ALL the fabricating and fitting gets done - probably the spring.

Anyway here's the result, just hung in place with a tooth pic bit pinning it to the body and the wheel dangling off the axle. I do this because I need the incentive to see some sparkly bits during the tedious processes - like the doors.

Yes the eagle-eyed will see the door neatly in place. How it got there is coming in another posting. And it's far from finished so as to start the other side door. Sigh...

The yellow tape is an early sketch for the coachline to come later. It defines where the bottom of the fabric roof might be. I just look at these things every day and it starts to tell me  if I've got it right or not. This will probably get tweeked in various ways before I start cutting plastic.

 

 

[Harry P.]

I like the mods you've made to the car overall. It looks sleeker, sexier, racier than stock. Nicely done. Looking forward to the day we see this one "Under Glass" for the first time.

[Cato]

I like the mods you've made to the car overall. It looks sleeker, sexier, racier than stock. Nicely done. Looking forward to the day we see this one "Under Glass" for the first time.

Thank you my friend. I hope that happens before I am 'Under Earth',,,

[Harry P.]

I like the mods you've made to the car overall. It looks sleeker, sexier, racier than stock. Nicely done. Looking forward to the day we see this one "Under Glass" for the first time.

Thank you my friend. I hope that happens before I am 'Under Earth',,,

Yes, let's hope so!

[Cato]

Love / hate relationship...

Here's where I polarize the few of you I haven't already alienated with my tampering of a Pocher classic.

With one door mounted and the second nearly so, I will reveal a styling change long in the planning stage and soon to be constructed. My goal for so long has been a low, long, elegant and jaunty sporting coupe in the Gurney Nutting coach style. All the modifications have been aimed that way.

A hint was tendered a few posts back with the addition of Bugatti Type-50 tail lamps. Having rotated the rear fenders a bit to make them 'fly' and add to the streamline, I felt the lamps were the perfect addition to highlight that as they do on the Bug. They are also period correct. The concept came a year ago; the parts just a month or so ago.

After looking at so many T-50 models back then an idea came to me; the color sweep. A two-tone demarcation which could add visual excitement and increase horizontal elements. I searched all my Rolls reference and found but one example of a P II that had been treated this way by its owner. Seen here in Gentile's book is 144 PY, a somewhat in-elegant combination of lines but the sweep is there.

EDIIT; I'm sorry for the poor presentation as I don't know how to integrate the text between each photo.

Color sweeps were not uncommon in the era especially good examples being Gable's Duesenberg Roadsters. Many custom coach builders used the device. So on firmer ground, I set to work integrating the device into the Sedanca design in a graceful way. Many paper templates followed along with many 'paint program' alterations of model Rolls photos. I found it's not as easy as it sounds. The 'speed' of the arc and its fit on the body work took much work to reconcile. Finally a pleasing to my eye design evolved. (You may now understand why this build has been taking so long; the prior modifications and this bright idea has caused many of you to yawn off into oblivion. I can't blame you; even I think I'm nuts going this deep off the gang plank).

Anyway, this color illustration makes it very clear and fairly accurate. It's an actual photo of my model on its wheels, then colorized in a facsimile of the final colors. The modified trunk, cut top etc. is all actually the model with fenders attached and wheels. Only thing forgotten was the spare hanging off the back.The sweep design finalized from this and transferred to styrene.

The influence can be seen in this superb T-50 built by David Cox. The sweep differs from mine because both bodies have different proportions but that was my task; to integrate that look onto the Sedanca 'canvas'. I tried to mimic the fender curves and integrate the roof lower edge in a harmonious way. You will judge if I succeeded or not.

Lastly, here is the body side with door and sweep attached. This is a sheet of .010 styrene (purely to get the curvature right for the upper cladding) which will be used as a template to make the upper body cladding. That's right, the upper portion will be .020 thick styrene so there is a demarcation line just like the Bug - not just a masked paint line. The edge will create a subtle shadow at the color break. The coachline will run from the grille to the trunk, further 'lengthening' the lines. Another involved project to get just right. Not seen on the illustration but present in the last shots are the hinge and louver details which will be in the yellow lower portion.

I may have a completely unique Pocher Rolls at the conclusion or chicken soup. I'm pressing on so I think I'm gonna like it. I welcome the few of you patient ones to continue on with me but truly understand if you feel I've gone to far and you've had enough.

EDIT; I'm sorry for the poor presentation as I don't know how to integrate text between the photos. WYSIWYG in not a good editing tool and I HATE it. BRING BACK THE PREVIEW BUTTON!

Edited August 14, 2015 by Cato

[Twokidsnosleep]

It is a bit frustrating posting photos and text in the new site, especially multiple pics into text as it doesn't let you scroll correctly and add stuff. Ah well, first world problem.

I do like the direction you are headed with this sweep, if only as it will resemble the much cooler and less stuffy Bugatti T50 that I just so happen to own now

Now go away Englishman before I taunt you a second time....French guys in Monty Python reference there

 

 

Edited August 14, 2015 by Twokidsnosleep

[jaymcminn]

Fantastic idea. I think that this will really reinforce that long, low appearance that the chop and lowering are creating. Can't wait to see where this goes next!

 

[sjordan2]

I like that approach a lot -- really evokes period design. Also reminds me of some Auburns and a Duesenberg SJ like the Weymann boat tail. I think it would be more graceful, though, if the sweep curved under more at the bottom, like the Bugatti. 

Edited August 14, 2015 by sjordan2

[Cato]

Thanks guys for taking time to register comment on my latest (and last) madness.

On the point about the the 'curl' at the bottom of the sweep, I have anguished over that for quite some time.

My feeling is that it works best for the Bugatti T-50; precisely for the reason that the Bug fenders / running boards are one piece. And they have a beautiful flow from one to the other front to back. That curl should be there (IMO) on the Bug because the rear fenders begin to sweep upward right at that junction. (Snob Bug owners may not agree - Scott...)

My car has 'slashes', where the fronts end, the boards begin and end and the rear fenders start abruptly.

So it seemed logical to me to terminate in a pronounced 'vee' at the rear fender leading edge. A joint that may be echoed by the roof / trunk lids intersection. Resembling the downward curve of the front fender was  primary to my eye. Here are some shots of the sweep in the actual cream color (painted, 2 thin coats) and with the running board  (not yet painted) attached. Hopefully that will make more sense.

 

[Harry P.]

I like it.

Personally I might have gone with a slightly differently shaped sweep... a continuous curve from front to back. mimicking the front fender shape, beginning the dropoff immediately aft of the grille, not following the line of the hood and then beginning the curve.

But that's like arguing Italian vs. Chinese food, or chocolate vs. vanilla ice cream... it's personal preference, not "right" or "wrong." If it pleases your eye, it's "correct." I like the concept, regardless of the specific curve shape. You're going to have a very unique Rolls when you're finished, and that is what's so cool about what you're doing.

[Harry P.]

BTW... just for the sake of heresy... 

I'm thinking of not doing the curved sweep on my Bugatti.

[Cato]

BTW... just for the sake of heresy... 

I'm thinking of not doing the curved sweep on my Bugatti.

Cool - flames instead will look bitchin'  

Boy, with out masking and no wire wheels to build, this one will be done in a week.

[bbowser]

Cool - flames instead will look bitchin'  

Boy, with out masking and no wire wheels to build, this one will be done in a week.

LOL!  I really like your take on the paint curve Skip.  You have put a serious amount of thought into this build.

[Cato]

Turning a corner...

I'm sorry I can't put text between shots to better explain; I just dunno how so I get the electronic dunce cap.

Continuous work has finally got the doors sized and mounted. easier written than done. Numerous sessions with hinge placement (doors on and off) and heating the warps was tedious. There are so many compounds to the body curvature that the door must conform to it you want a smooth paint reflection. I got it better than OOB but probably not as perfect as I want it.

With doors in their final place, I finalized a paper template of the maroon portion of the sweep with a beltline. The idea is a smooth flow of lines front to rear and blend into the trunk lines. So the trunk does not look like an afterthought.

From this I will make a .010 styrene template with sharp edges and from that the actual cladding that will get fastened to the body. The cladding will be .020 thick, the raised beltline will be .030 atop that and the center line seen here will be .080 wide half-round. I may tweek or remove the arrow point on the front and possibly slightly adjust the bottom edge of the roof line.

I'm relieved the design is finalized but anxious about getting a perfect, flat fit to the body. Stay tuned...

 

Edited August 25, 2015 by Cato

[Twokidsnosleep]

Are the stripes going to be a pin striping material?? That would look very smart

I like where you are headed here. I even slowed down Harry for you by putting him in a Bugatti mood just to gain you some time

I hear you with text and pictures...it is much more difficult now, my I pad won't scroll down past the last photo when I post multiple pictures

Edited August 25, 2015 by Twokidsnosleep

[Cato]

Are the stripes going to be a pin striping material?? That would look very smart

I like where you are headed here. I even slowed down Harry for you by putting him in a Bugatti mood just to gain you some time

I hear you with text and pictures...it is much more difficult now, my I pad won't scroll down past the last photo when I post multiple pictures

No Scott, the beltline is a raised stamping or molding used by coachbuilders to conceal or finish off an edge of joined panels or seams. Many like mine were doubled or had a chromed or pinstriped spear within. The raised element adds interest and breaks up slab-sided areas. It was often used as a break area for two-tones. Courtesy Koo, below are examples.

Yeah, I see that changing the WYSIWYG is a dead horse now. The old way made it much simpler to make understandable posts for viewers who may not be familiar with what you're trying to show.

And there's NO slowing down Harry, even with chained arms and legs. The only one who can alter his building pace is obviously his better half...

 

Edited August 25, 2015 by Cato

[Twokidsnosleep]

Ahh, I see ; really like that spear look to it

Good to not slow Harry too much, his work is inspiring after all

Edited August 25, 2015 by Twokidsnosleep

[sjordan2]

The reply boxes on this forum are like a box of chocolates. -- you never know where you'll end up when you click to reply. Now it's sprout.com. Anyway, your sweep design is growing on me.

[Cato]

The reply boxes on this forum are like a box of chocolates. -- you never know where you'll end up when you click to reply. Now it's sprout.com. Anyway, your sweep design is growing on me.

I figured your relative absence was the old adage; 'if you can't say anything nice...'

Yep Scott, my work doesn't inspire like Harry's. Mine DISCOURAGES...