Pocher Rolls Sedanca

[Cato]

Yes-I remember-but I hope we all live long enough to see it.

[Cato]

A big deal (for me at least). The complete front axle. Awaiting some small parts from Marvin and this assembly goes into the chassis-making it 95% complete. Just need to install the steering box and arm and we're ready for 'big stuff'-engine, or wheels, which should it be gang?

The axle seen in front view here. For those not crazy about my idea to leave metal parts natural finish, I have made a concession. To reduce the bling factor, I shot a mix of Tamiya smoke, flat black and gray into the recesses of the cast parts and on the arms. It's subtle, almost like road dust, but it's there and did cut the brightness. I like it:

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Left front wheel. The vertical structure is the brace that connects the axle to the damper body (on the chassis) by a lever. Gets connected when axle meets springs on the frame:

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Right front; steering arm in foreground:

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Rear view, left front. That tiny linkage is the MMC set which eliminates the Pocher flat stamped parts which look like blacksmith stuff by comparison. Attached with 00-90 bolts and nuts. The rod is .039" music wire and a b#*!% to cut. The pivots actually articulate when the wheels are turned. They move the levers and lean with camber. Lot of fumbling around to get these together. Very cool:

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Right front from rear; the wheels turn smoothly, with full travel with no slop. Tie rod is in foreground:

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Edited April 23, 2014 by Cato

[David G.]

Still watching, still interested. Keep up the good work.

David G.

[Eric Macleod]

How cool is that?!! I like the effect of the road dust. Not too much but just enough to get the point across.

My offering here is I would like to see a completed engine in the chassis next. I am sure others can't wait to see it on wheels but I sort of like the jackstand appearance so far.

E-

[Cato]

Thank you Eric. But you're a tiny bit late. Wheels on the table right now. Reason is, I wanted to get a grueling task out of the way or at least underweigh.

After reviewing Koo's notes this morning, I spent the last 6 1/2 hours prepping the wheel parts. Fifteen plastic rings and fifteen metal rings. I know-some guys build whole models in that time. I'm nuts for sweating some of this stuff. I remember, when building the Alfa in the '70's I built them right OOB.

But I want true mating surfaces and all the slots for the spokes must be trued. Ejector pins, part numbers, holes and flash-a flat surface with 100 grit taped down then hand work to take down edges with 220. None of what I did is cosmetic-it'll never show except hopefully, a perfect array of spokes in a true rim.

I've also got to do testing to see best way to get primer and paint in between everything. I may in fact start some engine prep when I get to a stage with these or fed-up.

Just know that EVERY PART OF EVERY POCHER REQUIRES PREP AND TEST FITTING.

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[Harry P.]

Oh man, you are in for some fun now!

Not sure if you've ever built Pocher wheels before, but if not, get set for some real fun!

I remember the first set of Pocher wheels I ever built, for a Mercedes. The first one took me something like 4-5 hours! For one! By the time I was on wheel 6, I had cut that time down to under an hour.

BTW... Pocher wheels are very tedious to build, due to the number of parts (I think the Mercedes and RR wheels have several hundred parts each), but if you follow the instructions, they actually go together quite nicely and look terrific when done...

[Cato]

Not sure if you've ever built Pocher wheels before, but if not, get set for some real fun!

(I think the Mercedes and RR wheels have several hundred parts each), but if you follow the instructions, they actually go together quite nicely and look terrific when done...

Yes-as stated, I did the Spyder in the '70's and there were 6 of those. 'Only' 5 here so it's a breeze... These have 78 spokes and 78 nipples per wheel and six rim rings.

Harry, share please; the Muletto wheels in black look wonderful. I assume you airbrushed but what's the secret to get even paint application between the spokes, front and back? Did you shoot color as you built each layer of spokes or the whole complete wheel at once??

[Harry P.]

No way would I try to paint all the unassembled parts... way too much of a hassle. I assembled the wheels and then just sprayed them from all angles, front and back, until every nook and cranny was covered.

[Cato]

Thanks-that's a big help.

[Cato]

About those springs...

The recent questions regarding the PE springs with no arch in them as I installed them led me to contact Marvin at MML. He sent me photos of a finished car assembled with them and they are indeed not arched. Further, the car sit at correct ride height and the front perches protrude as mine do.

In a 'duh' moment which I should have done sooner, I measured the Pocher rubber springs and found that the PE steel front springs are 3mm longer, accounting for the forward angle of the spring perch. The rears, are the same dimension. The front axle is situated in the correct location related to the other chassis points.

So I'm following the advice of the men that made the parts. They haven't been wrong yet.

[Harry P.]

About those springs...

The recent questions regarding the PE springs with no arch in them as I installed them led me to contact Marvin at MML. He sent me photos of a finished car assembled with them and they are indeed not arched. Further, the car sit at correct ride height and the front perches protrude as mine do.

In a 'duh' moment which I should have done sooner, I measured the Pocher rubber springs and found that the PE steel front springs are 3mm longer, accounting for the forward angle of the spring perch. The rears, are the same dimension. The front axle is situated in the correct location related to the other chassis points.

So I'm following the advice of the men that made the parts. They haven't been wrong yet.

Photos of the real deal say otherwise...

[Cato]

Photos of the real deal say otherwise...

No question but yet again, another step away from OE in my journey.

[Harry P.]

No question but yet again, another step away from OE in my journey.

Jerry Garcia was right...

...what a long, strange trip it's been...

[Cato]

Wire Wheel Pain...

I'm showing you the 'glamour' shots-the pain shots are too painful right now.

This is the first completed wheel-3 solid days, one aborted attempt and finally a decent finished product. 80 spokes / 80 spoke nipples and lots of hub and rim parts. I won't give a pain-by-pain description because it's too lengthy. But I will give anyone who cares enough a detailed description of successful techniques off line-it's way too much for this thread. Sadly, I was battling brittle (very old) plastic which snapped on me in the beginning causing a vocabulary demonstration known only to aliens. I quickly learned some tricks to deal with it and will be able to salvage some interior damage without outward evidence.

Shown with the MML tire which is beautiful by itself:

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Here's the back side. I bought the whitewalls to give me the option if I want to use them facing out. The black side is very handsome and I may use that out and spray the white side black for the inside. Shown with the cream color the wheels will be sprayed:

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The tires are supple with a very firm tread area-no fear of collapse. Yes I will sand the parting line when I stop twitching:

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I'll post a few construction pics to give the idea. The important point is that it IS doable; you must have Koo's notes and photos (he shows a better way for accurate spokes than the kit way), unlimited patience and a determination to get them right. You must acquire a 'feel' with your tools, soldering iron and of course prep every single wheel part meticulously. Now just 4 more to go.... (We need a 'crying' icon Harry...)

[Harry P.]

(We need a 'crying' icon Harry...)

I didn't have any problems assembling any of my various Pocher wheels. They go together just like the instructions say. But assembling them is very tedious, and the parts, especially the spoke nipples, are so small that it tends to stress you out... even though the assembly process is actually pretty straightforward. You need a lot of patience to build these wheels. But from your photos, it looks like you did just fine! They are a thing of beauty when assembled.

[Cato]

Thank you Harry and everything you say is true especially the stress from fumbling. The one wild card was having brittle plastic between the spoke slots on the outer rings. Snapped a couple until I got the idea to use the 'melting method' to heat the spokes into place rather than 'snap' them in as Koo's instruction shows. And Pocher's (jokingly named) instructions don't even tell you that!

Then I had to get the feel of how much heat and how hard to press (not at all) before they sunk into just the right depth.

All my kit's gray plastic is like that. The black plastic of the frame and body has a different composition. It's harder but less brittle. I melted all those screws in and never broke or stripped one (so far ).

[Harry P.]

A lot depends on the particular kit you're dealing with, and how it's been stored over the years. So far, all of my Pocher kits have been ok... I've never had a problem with the brittleness of the wheel rings that you describe, so all I've ever had to do is use a very small screwdriver tip to push the spoke nipples into place... the plastic wheel rings have always given way nicely. But you never know what you get when you buy a 40 year old kit. You also seem to have had issues with the kit springs, which I never had. Must have something to do with how the kit spent its previous life before you bought it.

But just think how proud you'll be of the finished model, knowing what you went through!

Edit: Actually, the toughest part of building a Pocher wheel is making sure you put the spoke nipple on the spoke in the correct orientation... the wide flare goes down into the plastic wheel ring. I use a magnifier desk lamp when building my Pocher wheels... I couldn't have done it using only my natural unaided vision!

[Cato]

But just think how proud you'll be of the finished model, knowing what you went through!

Edit: Actually, the toughest part of building a Pocher wheel is making sure you put the spoke nipple on the spoke in the correct orientation... the wide flare goes down into the plastic wheel ring. I use a magnifier desk lamp when building my Pocher wheels... I couldn't have done it using only my natural unaided vision!

I'm afraid I'll be proud posthumously...

So true about seeing what you're doing with these 1mm parts. I use 5x glasses and an Ott- Lite and it's fine. But changing focal length from the tools a foot away to the workpiece 3" away gives me headaches by the 3rd hour.

Snapping the nipples in would have been fine but I had to use the hot iron which added another dimension of stress. But I've got the feel now and the others should go more quickly.

I've actually got to take another of those backward steps now. The modified steering shaft came back from Marvin and I will assemble it into the steering box, finish it and install into the chassis, Then the steering arm to the front axle.

Then back to wheel fun.

I still want a 'crying icon!!'.

[David G.]

Here's a question: How is Pocher pronounced? Is it like Poker, Posher or Poacher?

Thanks,

David G.

[Cato]

Here's a question: How is Pocher pronounced? Is it like Poker, Posher or Poacher?

Thanks,

David G.

Poker.

[sjordan2]

I would have a hard time trying to decide what to do about the wheels and tires. American customers would often opt for outer whitewalls and polished wires, such as those made in the Springfield factory. AACA purists would say it's okay to have inner-facing whitewalls (though blackwalls would be more typically British) with wheels painted silver, black or body color. I don't think you can go wrong.

[Harry P.]

Here's a question: How is Pocher pronounced?

FRUS-trat-ing.

[Cato]

FRUS-trat-ing.

:lol:

[Cato]

This is only a test...

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Front axle in place. Wheel / tire and fender mocked-up for relationship with each other.

Wheel is correctly centered, ride height very close to what I hoped. Completed weight should settle it a bit more. Everything seems to be playing nice with each other. Will post the axle installation soon.

Also gives a ton of incentive to continue down this rabbit hole. It looks gorgeous and big in person-beyond my dreams.

I will now happily continue hitting myself in head with this hammer...

[Eric Macleod]

This looks fantastic. I encourage further rabbit hole exploration!

I know the white wall tires look good (and they do look very good indeed!) but I would like to see the same shot with the black-wall tyre (as the Brits would say) out! Just to see how it looks....

Those wheels though. I have to concede that they spectacular and would be a real shame to cover up, even if it might be more historically accturate to have the covers on them.