Pocher Rolls Sedanca

[Cato]

Will try the black side out when i complete the next wheel. Might look very good with the cream colored wheel.

Installing he forward brake rods and connecting the dampers now. Steering box, linkage and column after that. The chassis will be essentially done after that.

Then wheels and engine.

[Cato]

How to win the dumbazz award...

No matter how careful you try to be, you can cross yourself up. Here is the assembled steering box, steering lever and arm, all connected to the steering arm on the front axle.

This simple MML bronze arm required modification to the kit steering arm. It changes the mounting of the kit arm from through the top opening to the side, as the 1:1 was located:

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To do this, MML has you cut the steering arm and rotate the forward end 90 degrees so it bolts correctly to the front arm. Once cut, you must drill into each half and insert stiff wire then rejoin the halves. Without a Sherline and the brains to use one, I was very apprehensive as to how to do this. I cut the arm using a steel V-block for parallel edges. I marked two lines (90 apart) on the pre-cut side so I could rotate it 90 degrees accurately. This is a top view:

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Again from the top, you can see that the forward attach point (right of picture) is turned 90 to the rear one:

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Using a .039" drill and clamped square in the block, I took my best shot and drilled about 3/8" deep:

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I made a .010" styrene shim to make up the kerf from my razor saw to keep the arm the correct length and inserted the wire. Looked straight:

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Continued below...

[Cato]

The moment of truth. Both halves rejoined and mocked-in place to test. Steering box complete, all parts unfinished. The steering arm is concentric which is a miracle considering how I did it:

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All finished in black, graphite and a little corrosion:

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The steering box in place seen from the engine compartment side:

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All dressed-up and in place:

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Seen from the front, the axle steering arm is the stout curved bronze piece. The wheels pivot freely side to side with no rubbing:

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So why the dumbazz award??

In the second pic in the previous post you see the two cut halves, with the 'Z' bend going upward. Well...........that bend should be downwards; to clear the shock damper tower. Thankfully everything does clear. But I was so worried about getting a true cut and join, I fell asleep on the direction to join the front end.

I considered making another cut on the arm and turning 180 degrees but decided not to press my luck. And again, yes Harry, you can see all this stuff...

That's my dirty little secret; thankfully there are very few of you to laugh at me.

[David G.]

Truly an amazing kit. Thanks for sharing your work with us.

David G.

[Cato]

Truly an amazing kit. Thanks for sharing your work with us.

David G.

Thank you David.

[Cato]

Wheel #2 complete. Open for preferences of whitewall or blackwall tires.

Remember the wheels will be a 'butter cream' color and a dark gray / black brake drum behind:

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[Eric Macleod]

I like the black wall....but you knew I would say that!

Looks great overall.

[Cato]

I like the black wall....but you knew I would say that!

Looks great overall.

Since you may be the only vote, I'll take that under advisement.

[sjordan2]

Vote #2 for blackwalls. Will the insides of the fenders be body color?

[Cato]

Vote #2 for blackwalls. Will the insides of the fenders be body color?

Hey, quit boosting my view count!

Fenders, boards, hood top and cowl; deep maroon (seen on the front tray) which is either dark claret or burgundy (for you the wine expert). Body and hood sides and wheels a light cream / yellow / tan - it's tough to call it just one. It's got character but not overwhelming, like a 'school bus yellow'.

Inside of fenders possibly a darker version of the maroon or dark gray; I'm not there yet in plan.

[Modelbuilder Mark]

Vote #3, I am leaning towards the blackwalls, they just look really good. Having said that, it may vary depending on how they look against a body colored fender.

[Cato]

Hmmmmm. I getting a hint here.

Yes mark is right-when I get the big pieces colored (sometime this decade ), that will be the go-no-go. Seeing tires, painted wheels and body parts in paint will decide.

But yes, the black is handsome but the white is so immaculately done by MMC....

[Eric Macleod]

How easy is it to mount/dismount the tires? Once everything is painted you will be able to see the effect of the white wall vs. black wall on the appearance of the model. While I do tend to lean toward black wall tires on both models and 1:1 there are some cars that just look better with a nice wide strip of white. I respectfully submit the following as evidence of this point!.

Edited May 8, 2014 by Eric Macleod

[Cato]

Point well made Eric! Nice job and you even got the waving privileged family!

Yes with care the tires dismount and mount easily. I'm sanding all the wheel edges as I make them. I just completed the third wheel and started the fourth, that's why no recent posts. But I'll have a bible on the wheel construction to show soon.

Harry and Rich are right, they are very rewarding when done correctly. But man, they kick your butt on the way to perfection...

You still studying the eBay RR market Eric? I hope so.

[Cato]

The wheels: Pocher's dirty little secrets (in bold)...

Probably the greatest challenge in building this car, the wheels as supplied by Pocher are a constant struggle to deal with and stay a step ahead of. And again, I did this once before in the '70's with the Alfa's wheels-without any experience or the great help of Paul Koo's CD. They were probably terrible...

First off, I made a jig for the jig. Pocher gives you a round hoop plastic jig with a center post to keep things in relation to each other. It's warped so pick the best one of the 5 given and use it for all wheels. Realizing it was nowhere near stable enough, I epoxied it to a FLAT, rigid 1/8" aluminum plate which I then epoxied to 1/2" pine. This lets you handle the assembly and rotate it as needed. Also lets you have a solid base to press against as some of the spokes need quite a bit of force to seat - no matter what you do!.

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Each rim is composed of 3 plastic rings and 4 plated steel rings. They assemble into a sandwich with the plastic rings carrying the spokes. NONE of these is concentric with the other. They are also slightly different thicknesses. You need to keep the assembly as narrow as possible so the tire fits correctly. That turns out to be 18mm wide between the outer bead rings. So truing flat on sand paper and emory (for the steel) is vital.

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The center hub assembly is another minefield. Here are the component parts, numbered as they fit together:

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#1 is the central shaft which is threaded on the bottom. #2 assembles onto #1 and is the slot housing for the last (outer) row of spokes. #3 is the outer shell, the upper and lower edges of which want to overlap the spoke slots-which is VERY frustrating, no matter what you do. Sanding true doesn't help, the diameters are too big. #4 is the internal spacer which keeps 2 and 5 apart. #5 is the lower slot housing. #6 is the steel bottom plate which goes over the threads on #1. #7 is the threaded nut which captures the whole assembly. This is the most critical part of the hub assembly. You must NOT tighten this nut, which compresses the whole unit. You must leave clearance enough because when the spokes are pushed in place, they need space to fit vertically. Too tight and you can't get spokes in. Too loose and the spokes you've placed can slip out-which makes you tear your hair out.

Notice the razor saw on the right? I used that to clear out each of the 80 slots per wheel to (hopefully) get the spokes to insert easily. The overhanging steel parts thwart that good intention.

The hub in place on the jig. Here the lower and middle rows are in place, awaiting the top row. Because all spokes cross over each other, they exert pressure on each other. Makes it hard to place them in slots and hold while heat-sinking in the spokes into the plastic rings:

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The last row, in the clockwise direction, in place. Still waiting the counterclockwise spokes:

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Continued below unless you can't take anymore...

Edited May 9, 2014 by Cato

[Cato]

Continued...

Seen from the back, you can see some slight overlap of the plastic ring to the steel inner and outer. The best solution I figured by the third wheel was to sand the ID of the plastic to just get even with the steel. A word about those spoke nipples (hubs as Pocher calls them). They are 2mm long and 1mm wide. they are near impossible to grip with fingers or tweezers. They have slag on the open ends. They fly easily and you fidget constantly to place them. My plastic rings were all brittle and I cracked several on the first wheel, from trying to 'push' them in place with screwdriver tip. The solution is to melt them into place with your pencil soldering iron. So a hot device in one hand, a wood stick to hold their position in the other and just the right amount of 'touch' to keep from making a melted mess. All the while the pressure from the spoke crossover trying to dislodge it from your delicate positioning...BTW, NONE of this is imparted to you in the Pocher 'instructions'. They are simply exploded-view drawings which are near impossible to read. You need the Koo material and some help like this from a recent assembly project.http://http://http://http://

Thanks to me, there won't be a run on eBay Pocher Classics. I'm sure you are thinking 'he's nuts to do this or a really bad builder'. You're certainly right but don't let that stop you from building one. I b****** and carped a ton but let me tell you-it REALLY is all worth it if you love museum-style classic cars.

Despite all the supplied flaws, Pocher tackled an enormous model engineering project and got MANY things right. The more resourceful of you can overcome the flaws with gratifying results.

I just look at the completed standing chassis every day while grappling with the details and it inspires me to keep hacking away. I'd love to be doing (and showing you) the completed shiny parts (that seems to be important here), but I slug away on the minutia knowing I'd be satisfied with the complete whole.

Finishing the last two wheels (replacement part from Marvin for the spare) and then onto the engine. Will try some additional details there with reference supplied by Harry and Skip. It's great to have 'Pocher Friends'.

[sjordan2]

How easy is it to mount/dismount the tires? Once everything is painted you will be able to see the effect of the white wall vs. black wall on the appearance of the model. While I do tend to lean toward black wall tires on both models and 1:1 there are some cars that just look better with a nice wide strip of white. I respectfully submit the following as evidence of this point!.

Depends on what you're going for. This example is a left-hand drive American version featuring American preferences for whitewalls and polished wheels. Interestingly enough, the American version chassis and engine were essentially mirror images in terms of chassis layout and engine set-up. Even the carburetor design was reversed.

Edited May 9, 2014 by sjordan2

[Cato]

This example is a left-hand drive American version featuring American preferences for whitewalls and polished wheels. Interestingly enough, the American version chassis and engine were essentially mirror images in terms of chassis layout and engine set-up. Even the carburetor design was reversed.

Probably because the steering column and gearbox are right under the carburetor and on the opposite side, would contact the exhaust down pipe. So they swapped the cylinder head (2 separate castings) or reversed it. I don't think the distributor was an issue.

But they did move the battery box-seems like a lot of additional parts for the swap. $$$

[Cato]

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[Cato]

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[jaydar]

Man i wish you were building the Alfa Romeo Spyder or Scuderia. That is the one (and only) i want to do. Great work and fine collabetation with your fellow pocher builders. That truly epitomizes the best part of our hobby.

Joe.

Edited May 11, 2014 by jaydar

[Cato]

Man i wish you were building the Alfa Romeo Spyder or Scuderia. That is the one (and only) i want to do. Great work and fine collabetation with your fellow pocher builders. That truly epitomizes the best part of our hobby.

Joe.

Thanks Joe. I did build the Spyder but near 40 years ago! There are many pitfalls to that kit also but it is beautifully rakish to look at.

Yes I greatly appreciate the advice and encouragement from some of the guys.

Look up Harry's old Spyder build, I know it's here, or PM him to dig it out for you. IIRC his is a green / tan combination and beautiful. He also did the Muletto...

[Cato]

Man i wish you were building the Alfa Romeo Spyder or Scuderia. That is the one (and only) i want to do. Great work and fine collabetation with your fellow pocher builders. That truly epitomizes the best part of our hobby.

Joe.

Hey Joe-not to disappoint you; just remembered I have scans (from print film!) of my Alfa, built circa 1979. Didn't know a thing about all its issues or corrections. Given as a gift to a friend in 1980...

[Cato]

Things you shouldn't have to do...

I know I've been a strong critic of Pocher quality or lack thereof. I will be the first to say that this kit was a huge engineering project (in the days before CAD tooling and CNC) and they did amazingly well in many areas. It was an ambitious project and would have been better and cheaper without the attempted operational features. But getting some of the basics right is hit or miss and provides plenty of rude surprises for the builder along the way.

I have been working steadily since last posting and have completed all 5 wheels. Tough, tedious job but now done to my satisfaction. So onto the test fitting of brake drums to wheels and wheels to suspension-cake after the wheels right??

Pocher booby trap time..

This view shows the front brake drum with a 3/16" gap to the backing plate-whaa happened??

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Much head scratching and on-off-on action led to one conclusion; the wheel center hub is machined to fit over the brass spindle and be screwed on from the outside, securing the wheel and tire. The hub has a stepped center hole. BUT-the spindle was machined too long, forcing the hub to stand off by that amount. My only conclusion was to 'machine' the spindle nose down so the drum would be flush to the backing plate. The blue tape guides where the machining needs to be. Unable to disassemble the spindle from the axle at this point and sweating bullets, I decided to Dremel the offending amount off the spindle-gorilla-style:

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After a shaky few minutes, I got it flat and smooth, then the acid test. Mount wheel and screw in place-nice and flush. Had to do both sides. Will check the rear for the same problem when I get there:

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Now for 'relaxation' on to the engine construction which is pretty much straightforward plastic piece assembly. More relaxing than the wheel business...

[Harry P.]

Are those Marvin's tires?

I have to wonder about the way the sidewalls are "ballooned" out the way they are. Something seems off...