Weathering vs Patina

[southpier]

could someone shed light on this? coming from the military & model railroad hobby factions, weathering is applied to a model in the places it would appear on the real thing (tank, boxcar - whatever).

here, I see numerous kudos handed out for a model which has no graduation of deterioration, but rather an overall, even, application of rust & schmoots.

do cars weather & rust evenly? roof to rocker panels, bonnet to boot? does the ol' jalopy fading into the cornfield expire evenly on the north & south sides?

give it some thought when reaching for the salt shaker ...

[Aaronw]

Do blackberry bushes grow as vigorously on the south side of an abandoned junker as they do the north side?

[peter31a]

Generally, I think we as car model builders do tend to weather too evenly. That said I partially blame rat rods especially the ones who put false patina on their cars. If you check out people like Dr Cranky, Chuck Doane, Bill Borgen and Dave Roehrle, they have weathering down quite well. Also if you have a chance check out the Weathering Civilian vehicles book by A.K. Interactive. Great work there.

[southpier]

the military modelers seem to bring weathering to a whole other level. like "shades & shadows" by figure painters!

[JTalmage]

I just wish I could come up with a good wash to create depth. I'm terrible at it. I would love to have a few bottles of grays and blacks around for that. Because I hate that my door jambs and trunk jambs are body color. takes all the realism out of it.. but if they're pitch black it looks fake anyway.

I try to weather/patina/rust things how they would look in real life. I love looking at pictures of rusty cars and studying how and where the rust develops overtime on them.

[Tom Geiger]

here, I see numerous kudos handed out for a model which has no graduation of deterioration, but rather an overall, even, application of rust & schmoots.

Yea, one of my pet peeves! It's people just gone crazy with a Sophisticated Finishes rust kit from Michaels! They just smear this stuff all over a model and think those results are realistic. Nope!

And models that have a totally trashed body (but with no rust holes) and a clean chassis and interior!

Rust is a regional thing. Simply, East Coast and Northern cars rust from the bottom up due to road salts etc. Western cars rust from the top down, due to the sun beating on the upper surfaces. East coast cars rust more on the passenger side than the drivers side due to being parked at the curb. Streets are angled so the right side sits a bit lower.

Cars of the 1950s and 1960s rusted quite quickly. My father traded in a '62 Studebaker in 1966 because rust was starting to peek through. I remember my buddy getting a 1970 Maverick in 1976 that had rust holes in the typical lower corners. And Bondo was our friend back then, with many of us having 10 year old cars, all with New Jersey rust through.

Research! Every car has its own rust patterns. It's easy enough to find photos today on the Internet. My favorite place is eBay Motors since cars of all conditions get sold there. It's easy to find photo sets of 20-50 photos of a single car for research there. I will save promising photo sets for future use.

Most cars have their own rust pattern that you'll see in photos. For instance Tri-Five Chevys first rusted right on top of the headlights. So common that JC Whitney sold a chrome bezel to cover it. It drives me crazy when I see a model that's rusted to heck and those fender tops are pristine!

Mid sixties Valiants rusted on the fender tops. Apparently there were different metals touching there that reacted to the salty road spray. GM midsize cars of the 60s (Chevelles, Tempests, Cutlasses) were notorious for rusting out around the lower edge of the rear window. My 1999 Plymouth Breeze, a car from the modern era where cars don't rust as much, is rusted at the right front edge of the hood. Every one I see is the same. Learn where the car you want to model actually rusts. It will be more realistic and those who know will seek you out to compliment you!

Edited May 22, 2014 by Tom Geiger

[Brett Barrow]

I think the best I've ever seen at "civilian" weathering is Marc Reusser. He built this 50 Ford P/U that's on the cover of and featured inside the AK Interactive Extreme Weathered Vehicles book. I believe his background is in railroad modeling, those guys have some hyper-realistic weatherers, too. His use of contrasting gloss levels on wet and fresh grease and oil is just amazing.

Edited May 22, 2014 by Brett Barrow

[Danno]

Dittos!!

Tom analyzes it especially well.

I particularly find it interesting how many 'weathered' models have uniformly distributed huge pockmarks all over. Far more severe than any rust would ever be in scale. Yet, the kudos flow. Those just don't look realistic.

And, you guys are all correct: The railroaders and military modelers are leap years ahead of the main body of automotive modelers well it comes to weathering and aging.

[Brett Barrow]

BTW, Mr. Reusser posts often on the Finescale RR board, here's a SBS he did on the Ford P/U which is an addendum of information that was not published in the AK book.

http://www.finescalerr.com/smf/index.php?topic=2277.0

There is a lot of great weathering work on the Finescale RR board.

Edited May 22, 2014 by Brett Barrow

[fitforbattle]

I've always thought I've taken my weathering too short, not completing it. This thread made me think and reconsider. This is the last one I did. Not really much or based on something, just wanted to make it look like it's not fresh out of the factory.

I kinda suck when it comes to figuring out what to do.

Edited May 22, 2014 by fitforbattle

[Danno]

Better too little than too far overboard, I always say.

[Harry P.]

Another thing a lot of people overlook when they "weather" the chassis... they will meticulously "rust" the exhaust system, etc., but each individual component is separately weathered without an overall look of weathering. On any real car, over time, the whole chassis... everything... acquires an overall coat of grayness. For example, you don't see rusted exhaust pipes and a pristine black chassis together... everything gets an overall grayish coating of "patina" over time.

[Tom Geiger]

I've always thought I've taken my weathering too short, not completing it. This thread made me think and reconsider. This is the last one I did. Not really much or based on something, just wanted to make it look like it's not fresh out of the factory.

Another thing a lot of people overlook when they "weather" the chassis... they will meticulously "rust" the exhaust system, etc., but each individual component is separately weathered without an overall look of weathering. On any real car, over time, the whole chassis... everything... acquires an overall coat of grayness. For example, you don't see rusted exhaust pipes and a pristine black chassis together... everything gets an overall grayish coating of "patina" over time.

Per both comments... Robin it's a matter of at what time in the car's life do you want to model it. My goal here was to build the car as an average 10 year old car that's still in service. No rust through, just that overall 'gray' look that Harry described. Also, as he said, different parts age different. The exhaust for instance. The pipes will take on a coat of rust surface, but the muffler seldom rusts, it just pretty much gets dull and on this one, my catalytic converter has scrape marks on it.

Part of weathering is that most people do overdo it. Dan said it right, with the pock mark salt technique rust jobs.. look more like leopards than cars! And those with rust all over them, look like they were done like Shake And Bake!

You are trying to replicate scale rust, so it won't be as 'in your face' as 1:1 rust. When you think you haven't done enough... you probably have! The key again is research. I keep a lot of photos of cars at all stages of life. Those eBay Motors shots of 5 year old chassis are great. Every car has some degree of wear on the chassis. Even a brand new car has bits of rust started on naked bolt heads. And it's very cool when you get it right!

[howsthat1959]

East coast cars rust more on the passenger side than the drivers side due to being parked at the curb. Streets are angled so the right side sits a bit lower.

I thought cars parked on the street rust more on the driver's side because passing traffic splashes slop and such onto the side of the car....

[Tom Geiger]

I thought cars parked on the street rust more on the driver's side because passing traffic splashes slop and such onto the side of the car....

My experience is that the passenger side rusts because roads are angled with a crest in the center, and low points at the curb to aid in rain runoff. That leaves the passenger side sitting lower, so water runs down the car on that side, dripping off the bottom.

[jeffbrad]

Jesse read Marcos Cruz's tutorial on panel lines. His technique is the best I've seen. Works wonderfully. I make a wash of black enamel and mineral spirits for detail washing. for weathering wash acrylics work good because you can control the finish by what you cut the paint with. for a greasy look use Future to cut the paint, for very dull blotchy effect use alcohol.

[Mooneyzs]

BTW, Mr. Reusser posts often on the Finescale RR board, here's a SBS he did on the Ford P/U which is an addendum of information that was not published in the AK book.

http://www.finescalerr.com/smf/index.php?topic=2277.0

There is a lot of great weathering work on the Finescale RR board.

Thank you for sharing that link. That is some great information and tutorial. I really want to learn the art of weathering and I need to pick up that AK Interactive Extreme Weathering Vehicles book.