Photoshopped models

[Harry P.]

Here's an example of a photo as submitted... and as it appeared in the magazine. This is pretty typical of what I get...

[Ace-Garageguy]

Well, maybe what I think I'm seeing sometimes isn't in fact model-improvement-through-technology, but just manipulation of the entire image. The second shot there has, to me, the "look" that just shouts "manipulation", but I see that the model itself hasn't been altered, only the characteristics of the image...two different things.

I think fixing foil to make it appear perfect, or adding "foil" when it isn't really there, or similar tricks, should be disclosed...at least by posters on the board.

I also realize that some guys are SO good that their work is almost unbelievable. I've seen some of it up close and personal, where no "tricks" could disguise or enhance anything.

[Harry P.]

The second shot there has, to me, the "look" that just shouts "manipulation"...

Because you see the original. If you had only seen the "after" you wouldn't know it had been Photoshopped.

[Ace-Garageguy]

Because you see the original. If you had only seen the "after" you wouldn't know it had been Photoshopped.

I respectfully disagree. That "look" is what I occasionally see on posted models. It's as obvious, to me, as a second nose on the Mona Lisa.

[TFchronos]

As long as it's for improving the "image" quality (brightness, clarity, ect.) and not the "model" quality (removal of any imperfections be it discoloration, scratching ect.) I don't have a problem with it. I know I would never be able to tell either way away but I would prefer to see them as they are flaw's and all. That's what makes them special and unique. In my humble opinion at least.

[Harry P.]

I respectfully disagree. That "look" is what I occasionally see on posted models. It's as obvious, to me, as a second nose on the Mona Lisa.

What tells you it's been Photoshopped?

[Guest]

I've never had any interest in learning Photoshop. It has it's uses in the professional fields. But, to use it and pass it off as your own is dishonest. If you didn't draw or paint it with your own hands, then you really didn't do it. The computer did it for you. Yeah, you moved the mouse around and clicked the button a few times. But, you really didn't draw or paint it. Even if I did know how to use Photoshop, I certainly wouldn't use it to "enhance" a photo of one of my models. I might do like Steve B. mentioned and remove dust specks. But, I wouldn't use it to make my chrome trim, bumpers, paint etc. look perfect. My models are what they are,flaws and all.

[Ace-Garageguy]

What tells you it's been Photoshopped?

Edited August 3, 2014 by Ace-Garageguy

[unclescott58]

For Harry to photoshop like he does for the magazine, that I understand and I'm okay with. But, on a site like this I want to see honest models. At the the same time, I do understand cropping and lightening up a dark photo. It's fixing things like chrome foil, wheels, paint flaws, color, etc, to me is dishonest. A magazine or a model box is one thing. A person showing off his/her work is another.

Even with all of that, I'm so untech savvy, I don't know how to crop or lighten up a photo. The photos I've posted of my models here have been taken with the camera in my Ipad. I've taken much better pictures with my Kodak digital camera. But, I can't get this site to accept them. And I don't know why?

Scott

[Tom Geiger]

Things just look better in a photo than they do in person. When I first got back to the hobby I had several issues of 'the other magazine' prior to actually attending a model meeting or show. My very first show was attending NNL East 3. There I saw some of the models I saw in the magazine, and in person I could see minor flaws and such. I actually found that encouraging as I was intimidated with the models in the photos, as they were perfect. Seeing them in person gave me more a 'hey I could rise to doing that!" feeling. And this was before Photoshop!

In fact, my Geo Tracker looks really nice in photos! In person it's a dull and rusty thing!

[Harry P.]

If you didn't draw or paint it with your own hands, then you really didn't do it. The computer did it for you. Yeah, you moved the mouse around and clicked the button a few times. But, you really didn't draw or paint it

That is so wrong I don't even know where to start.

That's like saying, you didn't paint that picture... the brush painted it for you. Or, you didn't write that novel... the keyboard wrote it for you.

The computer doesn't do anything "for you." A computer can't create an image on its own, just like a paintbrush can't paint a picture by itself. (I'm talking about creating an image in Photoshop from scratch, not retouching existing images, which is a different thing). The paintbrush (and the computer) needs input from the person using it. The computer is a device that allows you to run software, like Photoshop. Photoshop isn't "the computer," it's Photoshop. It's like an electronic toolbox full of electronic pencils, brushes, erasers, etc. And Photoshop can only do what (and how) you tell it to do. Photoshop can't create an illustration by itself. There is no "button" to push that creates instant art. What you have are tools that you can select and use, just like in "real life" where you decide whether you want to use a pencil or a paintbrush or an eraser or whatever.

If I take an airbrush and spray paint onto illustration board, that takes the same type of skill as taking the airbrush tool in Photoshop and "spraying" the "paint" onto your "artboard." Photoshop can't guide your hand, or tell you how much to spray, or where to spray it. You have to make those decisions, Photoshop doesn't think for you.

I used to do everything by hand, before Photoshop existed. Now I do it all electronically, but it still takes the same talents and skills. If you can only draw a stick figure with a pencil, you're not going to be able to draw any better using Photoshop. There is no "magic" to Photoshop.

[Ace-Garageguy]

... In person it's a dull and rusty thing!

So am I.

[Ace-Garageguy]

And it's everywhere someone wants to create a misleading impression...

[Harry P.]

That's an example of someone who isn't very clever. Just cloning one area and pasting it somewhere else is a sure sign of a person who wasn't thinking.

[Ace-Garageguy]

Using Photoshop the way Harry does to create digital renderings for his work is every bit as "legitimate" an art form as paint-and-brush. It's hard, it is definitely a complex skill-set that takes much time and effort to master (I've fiddled with it enough to be able to say this with some actual knowledge), and as he says, it's just another tool in a creative person's toolbox.

It can, however, also be used to create false impressions.

[sjordan2]

You will note the following caption on the missile shot:

IranMissilePhotoshop4.jpg

Who did it or why, go figure. Or is that Ace's caption?

Edited August 3, 2014 by sjordan2

[Harry P.]

Using Photoshop the way Harry does to create digital renderings for his work is every bit as "legitimate" an art form as paint-and-brush. It's hard, it is definitely a complex skill-set that takes much time and effort to master (I've fiddled with it enough to be able to say this with some actual knowledge), and as he says, it's just another tool in a creative person's toolbox.

It can, however, also be used to create false impressions.

Yes, you can manipulate an existing image with Photoshop to fool people.

But as far as plowboy's comment that you don't really create art in Photoshop... that Photoshop somehow does it "for you" by clicking a few buttons... that's ridiculous. Below is an illustration I created from scratch in Photoshop, using the various tools that PS has. My "inspiration" was the photo on the left, but I can guarantee you that my illustration was "drawn" or "painted" or whatever word you want to use, 100% by me. Photoshop has no magic button that says "Elvis face" or "acoustic guitar" or anything like that. Photoshop lets you create shapes and tones and colors and shading like a brush and paint allows you to create the same things... only in a different way. Photoshop isn't like one of those keyboards with built-in "music" that you only have to press a button to play. Using Photoshop, you can create an illustration... Photoshop can't create the illustration for you, any more than a paintbrush can create a painting for you.

[unclescott58]

I guess it's like any technology. It can be used for good. Or for bad. I'm just hoping that people posting pictures of their models are using it for good. And not trying to deceive us in to believing their models are better than they really are.

Scott

Edited August 3, 2014 by unclescott58

[Harry P.]

I guess it's like any technology. It can be used for good. Or for bad. I'm just hoping that people posting pictures of their models are using it for good. And not trying to deceive us in to believing their models are better than they really are.

Scott

We can only hope so. We work on the honor system here, but if someone wants to scam us, they will.

[Quick GMC]

I don't think there is anything wrong with it, as long as the model is not being presented specifically for critique or judging.

If you're just posting your work, and touching up a little foil crease or something like harry mentioned, it's nothing to get upset over. But if someone is going around saying "look how great my work is" and PS it, that's not cool.

I know when you post, it's open season for comments and critique, but sometimes people finally get that one model almost perfect, only to see the flaws on the computer screen. Touching up here and there isn't a problem to me, but PS a mediocre model to present as something you know it's not, is not okay, especially with how persnickety this community can get.

I use PS for a few things, but I haven't on models. Chances are I will someday, but I'll be sure to include the originals if I do.

[Harry P.]

I don't think there is anything wrong with it, as long as the model is not being presented specifically for critique or judging.

Exactly!

If you post a photo of your work here, but you've lightened the photo, or fixed the contrast, or sharpened the image, that's fine. You have only made the photo better.

But if you post a photo of your work here, and you have altered the model digitally to fix flaws in your model, then you have falsely made your model better, and that is a misrepresentation of your work. Or in plain English, a lie.

Same thing if you enter a photo contest with a retouched photo of your model. That's cheating, plain and simple.

[unclescott58]

Exactly!

If you post a photo of your work here, but you've lightened the photo, or fixed the contrast, or sharpened the image, that's fine. You have only made the photo better.

But if you post a photo of your work here, and you have altered the model digitally to fix flaws in your model, then you have falsely made your model better, and that is a misrepresentation of your work. Or in plain English, a lie.

Same thing if you enter a photo contest with a retouched photo of your model. That's cheating, plain and simple.

Amen! You expressed it perfectly Harry.

Scott

[John Goschke]

Exactly!

If you post a photo of your work here, but you've lightened the photo, or fixed the contrast, or sharpened the image, that's fine. You have only made the photo better.

But if you post a photo of your work here, and you have altered the model digitally to fix flaws in your model, then you have falsely made your model better, and that is a misrepresentation of your work. Or in plain English, a lie.

Same thing if you enter a photo contest with a retouched photo of your model. That's cheating, plain and simple.

Ditto!

I don't care how small the flaw, be it the tiniest wrinkle or wavy edge in the foil, dust in the paint or scratch in the chrome, fixing it in Photoshop is not acceptable. It's a slippery slope, and if you start doing it and rationalizing it as "nothing to get upset over," then you're lying to yourself.

Like Harry, I do a lot of magazine work with P'shop, and I do adjust exposure, contrast and color in my model photography just like in the photos that are supplied for my "real job," to make it truer to the subject and for a more pleasing image, and clarity and sharpness to bring out detail but unlike in the magazine photos for work, I WILL NOT fix flaws in the model, so if there's a booger under the foil or dust or a sloppy brush touch-up in the paint or, sadly more often now, shaky detail painting or foilwork, you're going to see it and I'm going to live with it. I do clean up in Photoshop, any dust on the lens (or that seems to be in the camera), that falls on the model and on the backdrop during the photo session.

Edited August 4, 2014 by John Goschke

[Lovefordgalaxie]

Photoshop can make some pictures taken with poor light or with wrong camera setting a lot nicer, and more "crisp" without altering the model. never altered a model, and all the flaws are there showing, but using Photoshop to crop, and to fix the color balance, light level and contrast is something I do very often.

I even do some "fake HDR" with Photoshop, that can make the picture to look cool, without touching the model.

Exemples:

Original picture just cropped:

1957 Chevy by Lovefordgalaxie, on Flickr

Picture "fixed" (color balance, contrast, intensity, lighting):

1957 Chevy Bel Air by Lovefordgalaxie, on Flickr

Now the Fake HDR:

Original picture:

1936 Ford De Luxe Roadster by Lovefordgalaxie, on Flickr

"Fake HDR":

1936 Ford De Luxe Roadster by Lovefordgalaxie, on Flickr

Another example:

Original picture:

1936 Ford De Luxe Roadster by Lovefordgalaxie, on Flickr

"Fake HDR":

1936 Ford De Luxe Roadster by Lovefordgalaxie, on Flickr

Extreme example of what can be done, if you have the patience:

Original picture:

Photoshoping 01 by Lovefordgalaxie, on Flickr

Photoshopped:

Photoshoping 02 by Lovefordgalaxie, on Flickr

Even tough, with some attention the photoshopped picture can be spotted.

Edited August 4, 2014 by Lovefordgalaxie

[W-409]

I think too it's "cheating" to retouch the pictures to make models look better before posting them. I have only cropped and resized my pictures and sometimes I have sharpened them, if they have been a bit blurry in the camera but that's all. I think that kind of modifying is alright, because it doesn't affect to the model... All flaws are still there, only the picture is better quality.