Snake45 Posted October 13, 2014 Share Posted October 13, 2014 Working on a couple '60s drag builds using the magnetos in the Double Dragster. I tried googling to answer these questions, no joy. Maybe someone here will know. 1. I know that some (most?) had all the wires coming out the same place. Were there any where four wires came out each side? 2. Is there any particular firing order, i.e., if I'm wiring a 1-8-4-3-6-5-7-2 firing order, where do those individual wires go on the magneto? Or does it matter, in the case of the ones where the wires are all on one side? Thanks in advance for any help. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ace-Garageguy Posted October 13, 2014 Share Posted October 13, 2014 One of the most common of the old mags was the Vertex / Scintilla / Joe Hunt. Lotsa info here, everything you need for that one. http://www.modelcarsmag.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=88912&hl=magneto Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snake45 Posted October 13, 2014 Author Share Posted October 13, 2014 (edited) Great thread, seems to be EXACTLY what I need to know is there (might take me a while to figger it out)! Thanks so much. I consider this question answered and will lock the thread to avoid further effort. Or I'd lock it if I could figger out how. Oh well. Edited October 13, 2014 by Snake45 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
High octane Posted October 13, 2014 Share Posted October 13, 2014 Figure it out? No matter how you wire it, it's still not gonna start, yet alone run. And just how many modelers or people that look at your models would actually know the firing order of the model you've built? I don't even know the firing order of the vehicles that I drive and could care less. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snake45 Posted October 13, 2014 Author Share Posted October 13, 2014 Figure it out? No matter how you wire it, it's still not gonna start, yet alone run. And just how many modelers or people that look at your models would actually know the firing order of the model you've built? I don't even know the firing order of the vehicles that I drive and could care less. Exact firing order is less important than just avoiding the dreaded "hair parted in the middle" look if it's not appropriate. Or, conversely, DOING the "hair parted in the middle" thing if that IS correct for this system. If I'm not gonna try to make it look at least somewhat right, why bother wiring it at all? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ace-Garageguy Posted October 13, 2014 Share Posted October 13, 2014 (edited) If I'm not gonna try to make it look at least somewhat right, why bother wiring it at all? Exactly. And knowing what IS right is the first step towards getting it to LOOK right. Nobody is being FORCED to make things look believable, but if somebody WANTS to, that's OK. If somebody WANTS to put all the plug wires coming out of the carburetor and going to the transmission, that's OK too. I mean, after all...it's just a hobby, it's supposed to be fun, and putting the plug wires in the carburetor, running to the transmission is certainly more "fun" than putting them in the right places, right? (danger danger: sarcasm warning) Edited October 13, 2014 by Ace-Garageguy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ace-Garageguy Posted October 13, 2014 Share Posted October 13, 2014 (edited) And just how many modelers or people that look at your models would actually know the firing order of the model you've built? How many people who look at you would actually know if you wiped your butt after you crapped? Some things, we just do for ourselves. Or not. Edited October 13, 2014 by Ace-Garageguy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snake45 Posted October 14, 2014 Author Share Posted October 14, 2014 How many people who look at you would actually know if you wiped your butt after you crapped? Well, uhhh...some days, everybody! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ScaleDale Posted October 14, 2014 Share Posted October 14, 2014 Firing order is a function of the cam. 302 Fords can have one of two firing orders depending on if they are HO or not. If you want to wire an engine accurately, determine what engine you want it to be by make, year and displacement. Look up the distributor rotation, cylinder numbering and firing order then work from there. Dale Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ace-Garageguy Posted October 14, 2014 Share Posted October 14, 2014 (edited) Firing order is a function of the cam. 302 Fords can have one of two firing orders depending on if they are HO or not. If you want to wire an engine accurately, determine what engine you want it to be by make, year and displacement. Look up the distributor rotation, cylinder numbering and firing order then work from there. Dale You're correct, of course. Just curious...did you look at the link in post #2? Edited October 14, 2014 by Ace-Garageguy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greg Myers Posted October 14, 2014 Share Posted October 14, 2014 Having judged many model car contest , I must say the firing order of any given entry, was never an issue. However the many responses above certainly have their wisdom and worth. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gtx6970 Posted October 14, 2014 Share Posted October 14, 2014 I don't think it really matters when it comes to a Mag. All the wires exit the body in one place Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southpier Posted October 14, 2014 Share Posted October 14, 2014 how did we go from cylinder firing order to ... oh, never mind ... some things are better left unknown Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greg Myers Posted October 14, 2014 Share Posted October 14, 2014 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ace-Garageguy Posted October 15, 2014 Share Posted October 15, 2014 (edited) I don't think it really matters when it comes to a Mag. All the wires exit the body in one place Really? That looks like 8 places to me...there are 8 individual holes the plug wires come out of. There are also different styles of caps for this basic design of mag... And there are several different designs of mag that have been used on cars at one time or another...like this one... Understanding leads to more accurate model building...if you WANT to build accurate, realistic models that represent full-scale reality. PS. There's a difference in "hair splitting" and "technical accuracy". People who build things that have to run well understand this. Edited October 15, 2014 by Ace-Garageguy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snake45 Posted October 15, 2014 Author Share Posted October 15, 2014 Having judged many model car contest , I must say the firing order of any given entry, was never an issue. If I were judging a contest, I wouldn't pay any attention to firing order either. HOWEVER, if the builder had all the left-hand wires going to the left side of the distributor, and the same for the right, I'd probably count off for that. And if it was supposed to be a "factory stock" build and had yellow or blue plug wires, I'd count off for that, too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blunc Posted October 15, 2014 Share Posted October 15, 2014 post #4 was not helpful to this thread, it didn't present any answer to the original post, in fact I'm beginning to wonder why that person bothers to build models at all. admittedly, this particular post is not helpful either...maybe I should link it to the "What Irked me today?" thread. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snake45 Posted October 15, 2014 Author Share Posted October 15, 2014 post #4 was not helpful to this thread, it didn't present any answer to the original post, in fact I'm beginning to wonder why that person bothers to build models at all. admittedly, this particular post is not helpful either...maybe I should link it to the "What Irked me today?" thread. Ah, don't worry about it. You wouldn't believe how many times I've posted similar thoughts on a model airplane board when somebody asks what are the correct seat belt buckles for an Iwo Jima-based P-51D in June of 1945, or some such complete trivia/arcana. It's not important at all--until it is, to somebody. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ace-Garageguy Posted October 15, 2014 Share Posted October 15, 2014 For what it's worth, there's a really great looking, exceptionally well-detailed model posted recently on this site that uses a Vertex-style mag. It has the hair-part style of plug wiring, with all the wires on the left grouped together at the cap, etc. Does it spoil the model? Of course not...but it's instantly obvious to anyone who's ever worked with this type of mag in the real world. Correcting the error would not have required having the firing order right...just moving a couple of wires around to look like the real deal at first glance. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greg Myers Posted October 15, 2014 Share Posted October 15, 2014 Eyeball engineering, it has to look right. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted October 15, 2014 Share Posted October 15, 2014 It takes the same amount of time to wire an engine correctly as it does incorrectly. Personally, I prefer to have my engines wired correctly. But, like everything else, to each his own. Some time ago, someone posted a model and claimed, "don't bother checking, the engine is wired correctly!" or something to that effect. It was a small block Chevy in the model. I checked anyway. The number one plug wire went to the number five cylinder. I heeded his advise after that. I had seen enough to know he was FOS. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snake45 Posted October 16, 2014 Author Share Posted October 16, 2014 It takes the same amount of time to wire an engine correctly as it does incorrectly. Personally, I prefer to have my engines wired correctly. But, like everything else, to each his own. Some time ago, someone posted a model and claimed, "don't bother checking, the engine is wired correctly!" or something to that effect. It was a small block Chevy in the model. I checked anyway. The number one plug wire went to the number five cylinder. I heeded his advise after that. I had seen enough to know he was FOS. When I put the Edelbrock intake manifold on my real '69 Camaro--the most complicated car thing I'd ever done to that point, and I had NO help with it at all--the distributor wouldn't go back in the right place. I'd bumped the oil pump--no one warned me about that nor how to fix it. After a dozen efforts trying to get it back in "right, " I finally gave up, put it in where it wanted to go, and just moved all the plug wires over one. To my shock, wonder, and enormous relief, the car fired up on the first crank and ran great. I was SO pleased with myself for figgering out how to fix the problem, but my distributor looked "wrong" from then on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike_G Posted October 16, 2014 Share Posted October 16, 2014 I usually try to wire motors up correctly if it's not too much of a problem to do so, otherwise I just randomize the wires enough that they look like they might be correct. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blunc Posted October 16, 2014 Share Posted October 16, 2014 When I put the Edelbrock intake manifold on my real '69 Camaro--the most complicated car thing I'd ever done to that point, and I had NO help with it at all--the distributor wouldn't go back in the right place. I'd bumped the oil pump--no one warned me about that nor how to fix it. After a dozen efforts trying to get it back in "right, " I finally gave up, put it in where it wanted to go, and just moved all the plug wires over one. To my shock, wonder, and enormous relief, the car fired up on the first crank and ran great. I was SO pleased with myself for figgering out how to fix the problem, but my distributor looked "wrong" from then on. You have found out first hand the fact that the ignition system on your Camaro doesn't care exactly where you put the spark plug wire for number one plug as long as the plug wire sequence matches what the mechanical side of the engine does with regard to cylinder compression stroke and direction of distributor rotation. Or you could have tweaked to oil pump shaft back to where it matched factory position. Sometimes it's simpler not to have to pull the distributor out and fiddle with that. I'm no stranger to that after having pulled countless distributors in order to free up stuck mechanical advances or replace busted trigger coils in GM HEI distributors. I once diagnosed a failed HEI trigger coil on a Camaro that the owner had taken to three Chevy dealers and two transmission shops because his car would "cut out" during acceleration but only when the engine wasn't totally warmed up yet, after fixing the problem and having the customer verify the fix (through his preferred method of going flat out down freeway on ramps) he tried to "tip" me with a case of scotch which I was not able to accept due to the shop I was in at the time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greg Myers Posted October 16, 2014 Share Posted October 16, 2014 I had a rotor that had a broken little holdie thing, allowing the brass portion to rotate changing the timing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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