madhorseman Posted January 29, 2015 Posted January 29, 2015 I can't wait until the Discovery Channel documentory about this whole incident airs. And it gets looked at from every angle much like the Kennedy Assassination. "Back, and to the left".
Harry P. Posted January 29, 2015 Posted January 29, 2015 When 11 of 12 balls are underinflated and out of the allowed range, that's not a coincidence. And no, the weather wasn't an issue, because the Colts' balls were all checked and all were inflated properly. Obviously if the temperature was a factor, it would have affected the Colts' footballs, too, not only the Pats' balls. Somebody within the Patriots did it. Was Belichick aware? Was Brady aware? We can't say for sure, but it's obvious that when 11 of the 12 footballs were underinflated, it's not a coincidence. It's not the weather. Somebody did it. Is it important in the overall scheme of things? Of course not. Global terrorism is a little more important. But if the Pats cheated, it's important to the NFL. And notice how they are conveniently not making any announcements on their findings before the Superbowl....
Jantrix Posted January 29, 2015 Posted January 29, 2015 Bill Nye to back up Erik's explanation. http://www.sportingnews.com/nfl/story/2015-01-27/patriots-deflategate-deflate-gate-footballs-underinflated-bill-nye-science-guy-super-bowl-49-2015-xlix
Dirt Demon Posted January 30, 2015 Posted January 30, 2015 Well.... You would never know that there are more important issues in the world......every time you turn the tv on, someone is talking about defeated footballs... It's getting rather old and sickening!.... It's done and over with... People just need to move on! All I have to say is ..... "let's bring that trophy back to New England boys!".... Go Patriots!
highway Posted January 30, 2015 Posted January 30, 2015 I don't like football, but just let the Colts play with the Patriot's balls!
Quick GMC Posted January 30, 2015 Posted January 30, 2015 the fact that they put "gate" into the name just makes it that much more of a joke. I hate the Patriots more than any other team in the league, but this is just comically sad. First they say 2 psi low, then they say they don't know exactly. Then they say a locker room attendant is under suspicion. If they did it intentionally, they should be punished. However it doesn't matter and would not have changed anything in this particular instance. There is no reason to reveal anything before the super bowl. The Colts got blown out by a lot more than any low psi footballs could have possibly helped.
chunkypeanutbutter Posted January 30, 2015 Posted January 30, 2015 Thanks for clearing it up for me. The only reason I was on the fence is because I didn't hear any stats on what the Colts' balls were. TV news for you, right there; talk about red herring.
Danno Posted January 30, 2015 Posted January 30, 2015 Yeah, it's really the SoWhatBowl. Even with cold, poor weather elsewhere and wonderful weather here, the attendance figures indicate fans aren't packing in like usual for Super Bowls. Funny thing, ticket scalpers are crying . . . they can't unload tickets at super (may I say it?) inflated prices!
chunkypeanutbutter Posted January 30, 2015 Posted January 30, 2015 Even nosebleed seats are expensive this year; thousands of dollars.
Pete J. Posted January 30, 2015 Posted January 30, 2015 BEWARE-SCIENCE INVOLVED! First off, I don't have a dog in this hunt so I don't care one way or the other but consider this: 1. The balls are initially checked in the comfort of the referees locker room. Internal air temperature is probably in the 70+ degree range. The temperature on the field was about 20 degrees. Total temperature variation was about 50 degrees. 2. Formula for ideal dry gases= (pressure 1 X volume 1)/temperature kelvin 1=(pressure 2 X volume 2)/temperature kelvin 2 3. If you do the math a 50 degree drop in temperature would equate to a pressure drop of about a pound and a quarter or more depending upon the humidity of the air in the ball. 4. Assuming that the Patriots want a soft ball to begin with and inflate it to the minimum acceptable pressure then at field temperature this would bring the balls to about the pressure as measured. Having said all this, did the Patriots cheat? Don't know and don't care, but at least get the math right and lets get over this!
slusher Posted January 30, 2015 Posted January 30, 2015 Well.... You would never know that there are more important issues in the world......every time you turn the tv on, someone is talking about defeated footballs... It's getting rather old and sickening!.... It's done and over with... People just need to move on! All I have to say is ..... "let's bring that trophy back to New England boys!".... Go Patriots! Still have to play the game, Seattle may take the trophy home.. Yeah, it's really the SoWhatBowl. Even with cold, poor weather elsewhere and wonderful weather here, the attendance figures indicate fans aren't packing in like usual for Super Bowls. Funny thing, ticket scalpers are crying . . . they can't unload tickets at super (may I say it?) inflated prices! I have to agree o the SoWhatBowl. I really don't care foe either team. Katy may be the best part of the whole thing..
Erik Smith Posted January 30, 2015 Posted January 30, 2015 (edited) BEWARE-SCIENCE INVOLVED! First off, I don't have a dog in this hunt so I don't care one way or the other but consider this: 1. The balls are initially checked in the comfort of the referees locker room. Internal air temperature is probably in the 70+ degree range. The temperature on the field was about 20 degrees. Total temperature variation was about 50 degrees. 2. Formula for ideal dry gases= (pressure 1 X volume 1)/temperature kelvin 1=(pressure 2 X volume 2)/temperature kelvin 2 3. If you do the math a 50 degree drop in temperature would equate to a pressure drop of about a pound and a quarter or more depending upon the humidity of the air in the ball. 4. Assuming that the Patriots want a soft ball to begin with and inflate it to the minimum acceptable pressure then at field temperature this would bring the balls to about the pressure as measured. Having said all this, did the Patriots cheat? Don't know and don't care, but at least get the math right and lets get over this! The temperature at game time was 51 degrees. You are assuming the temperature in the locker room. Using the ideal gas law, PV=nRT, the temperature would have had to drop 60 drgrees to loose 2 psi. It actually dropped about 4 the whole game and the balls were "caught" at halftime. Edited January 30, 2015 by Erik Smith
Pete J. Posted January 30, 2015 Posted January 30, 2015 (edited) The temperature at game time was 51 degrees. You are assuming the temperature in the locker room. Using the ideal gas law, PV=nRT, the temperature would have had to drop 60 drgrees to loose 2 psi. It actually dropped about 4 the whole game and the balls were "caught" at halftime. Not sure where you got 51 degrees on the field. Every thing I see reports the field temp at around twenty degrees. http://www.baltimoresun.com/sports/ravens/ravens-insider/bal-weather-conditions-at-gillette-stadium-are-chilly-and-clear-for-ravenspatriots-playoff-game-20150110-story.html. That would be 50 degrees drop from an temp of 70, which I assumed(and I don't believe that is an unreasonable assumption of a locker room) to be a comfortable temperature in the referees locker room when the balls were initially tested according to the NFL. Thus 50 degree temperature drop would give you about the correct pressure drop measured. Edited January 30, 2015 by Pete J.
Erik Smith Posted January 30, 2015 Posted January 30, 2015 (edited) Not sure where you got 51 degrees on the field. Every thing I see reports the field temp at around twenty degrees. http://www.baltimoresun.com/sports/ravens/ravens-insider/bal-weather-conditions-at-gillette-stadium-are-chilly-and-clear-for-ravenspatriots-playoff-game-20150110-story.html. That would be 50 degrees drop from an temp of 70, which I assumed(and I don't believe that is an unreasonable assumption of a locker room) to be a comfortable temperature in the referees locker room when the balls were initially tested according to the NFL. Thus 50 degree temperature drop would give you about the correct pressure drop measured. You're looking at the wrong game. The Patriots played the Colts in the AFC championship game. The other balls, including one of the Pats balls, did not have subsequent 2+ psi drops. If science is involved, wouldn't ALL the balls be subject to the same calculations? Edited January 30, 2015 by Erik Smith
Erik Smith Posted January 30, 2015 Posted January 30, 2015 (edited) The NFL now claims they have no record of the psi - the referee who checked them did not record or document the measurements. Huh. The ref just said they were good. Edited January 30, 2015 by Erik Smith
chunkypeanutbutter Posted January 30, 2015 Posted January 30, 2015 Do they always record all the pressures beforehand?
Erik Smith Posted January 30, 2015 Posted January 30, 2015 Do they always record all the pressures beforehand? No idea. But the NFL can't prove how much was lost because it's not documented. Oh, I guess the NFL will do anything to get attention...
sjordan2 Posted January 30, 2015 Posted January 30, 2015 (edited) I can't find the article again, but I just read an article about a statistician (from Las Vegas, so proceed with caution) who traced events back to around 2006, when Brady and Manning successfully lobbied the NFL to let offensive teams use their own balls. Almost immediately, the Patriots' fumble rate fell about 30 percent and has remained among the lowest in the game, if not the lowest of all. Others have taken issue with that, but a news story today quotes Joe Montana as saying that whoever actually deflated the balls, he has no doubt that Brady caused it to happen. He went on to add that it's a dumb rule anyway. Edited January 30, 2015 by sjordan2
Erik Smith Posted January 30, 2015 Posted January 30, 2015 (edited) Prior to this, I had no idea such a rule even existed. I just thought the NFL had a bunch of game balls and that was that. I have watched about 2 games in the last 8.75 years, so unless the Seahawks are in a Super Bowl... Edited January 30, 2015 by Erik Smith
sjordan2 Posted January 30, 2015 Posted January 30, 2015 I can't find the article again, but I just read an article about a statistician (from Las Vegas, so proceed with caution) who traced events back to around 2006, when Brady and Manning successfully lobbied the NFL to let offensive teams use their own balls. Almost immediately, the Patriots' fumble rate fell about 30 percent and has remained among the lowest in the game, if not the lowest of all. Others have taken issue with that, but a news story today quotes Joe Montana as saying that whoever actually deflated the balls, he has no doubt that Brady caused it to happen. He went on to add that it's a dumb rule anyway. EDIT...This is on Yahoo! Sports, "Deflate-Gate Stats Spats"
Pete J. Posted January 30, 2015 Posted January 30, 2015 You're looking at the wrong game. The Patriots played the Colts in the AFC championship game. The other balls, including one of the Pats balls, did not have subsequent 2+ psi drops. If science is involved, wouldn't ALL the balls be subject to the same calculations?
Quick GMC Posted January 30, 2015 Posted January 30, 2015 BEWARE-SCIENCE INVOLVED! First off, I don't have a dog in this hunt so I don't care one way or the other but consider this: 1. The balls are initially checked in the comfort of the referees locker room. Internal air temperature is probably in the 70+ degree range. The temperature on the field was about 20 degrees. Total temperature variation was about 50 degrees. 2. Formula for ideal dry gases= (pressure 1 X volume 1)/temperature kelvin 1=(pressure 2 X volume 2)/temperature kelvin 2 3. If you do the math a 50 degree drop in temperature would equate to a pressure drop of about a pound and a quarter or more depending upon the humidity of the air in the ball. 4. Assuming that the Patriots want a soft ball to begin with and inflate it to the minimum acceptable pressure then at field temperature this would bring the balls to about the pressure as measured. Having said all this, did the Patriots cheat? Don't know and don't care, but at least get the math right and lets get over this! Your science is correct, your information is not. The temp on the field was low 50's.
CorvairJim Posted January 31, 2015 Posted January 31, 2015 I can't figure out why they let each team provide their own balls. So a couple of quarterbacks cried to the league? Is that all it takes for a rule change? Name me one other team sport - just ONE - where the team provides their own balls or any other essential part of the game. Baseball, basketball, heck, tennis, for goodness sake! Sure, in baseball, the home team's clubhouse manager preps 12 dozen balls per game, but they're for the whole game and used at random. In tennis, they just rip open a fresh can and a new ball goes into play. Why can't the NFL do like every other sport? (BTW - I don't have a dog in this fight either, but I personally hope those cheating Patriots have their butts handed to them on a platter! Belichek (spelling?) is a known cheater and it would serve him right. Frankly, I agree with those who stated that the Pats should be barred from the game entirely. I'd add a thumpin' HUGE fine and a loss of ALL draft picks next year. But that's just me... )
Dirt Demon Posted January 31, 2015 Posted January 31, 2015 blah...blah...blah... Haters keep hating......GO PATS! :P
chunkypeanutbutter Posted January 31, 2015 Posted January 31, 2015 I hate every sports team: does that make me biased or not?
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