SfanGoch Posted January 24, 2015 Posted January 24, 2015 Why do some folks think that hobby related forums are supposed to be a whimsical, fairytale-like wonderland where seldom is heard a discouraging word and the sky is not cloudy all day? Like in any artform, expect criticism when you choose to showcase your work. Receiving criticism is part and parcel of the deal. Nobody goes out of their way to trash someone else's work. Expecting to get showered only with empty praise, minus any critiques, if one posts pics of a WIP/finished build is somewhat narcissistic. It's also an indication that the poster who can't handle it is thin-skinned. Just because you, in the general context, think your work is perfect doesn't mean it is. Even the guys at the top of the modeling food chain get raked over the coals for mistakes, inaccuracies and plain old goofups. Would you rather have everybody lie about what they see just to make you feel good about yourself and not hurt your feelings; or, accept the criticism, recheck your work against what was pointed out and try to improve your work and skills? If it's the former, you're in for a whole lot of butt hurt. If it's the latter, you'll only get better at what you're doing.
10thumbs Posted January 24, 2015 Author Posted January 24, 2015 Danno, I read that Eric is referring to those who are only able to cut and criticize a model, for whatever reason. He is commenting about what I wrote last. I referred to guys on another forum who cut every single model that is shown. That's being mean, in my opinion, and destructive. Nitpicking, for the sake of just cutting a model, stinks in my opinion. Because this group of guys knock every car they see, I questioned the sense of it. Result, I get mobbed and beat on because I can't take "constructive criticism". Guys with 1000's of posts, 1 car shown in 4 years, and cutting on every single entry is mean. I say to myself, the forum is not the right one for me. Bye. I haven't ever seen this type of behavior on this forum, and myself, as well as several I know here, are grateful for the decency. I don't mind when someone points to a problem zone on my builds. Most of the problem areas I can see myself, but am not able yet to do it any better. The overall view is important for any model, my opinion. If a car is generally a good looker and well built, I'll refrain from any criticism. Michael
jwrass Posted January 24, 2015 Posted January 24, 2015 Michael, Great topic!!!! I think constructive criticism is fine but it all depends on how you define criticism (like Clinton defined sexual relations) It's so subjective The people who irk me the most are the so called race car experts!!! That car didn't run this or that yada yada!!! Having raced since the age of nine I can't think of a time when we haven't made changes to our race cars! They may not be wholesale changes but they were changes. Back in the 70s when match racing was big the Jungles, Fosters, Tharps, etc sometimes raced 3 to 5 days of the week which is very hard on equipment and they would beg borrow and steal to get to the next event to collect their appearance money, if they where a no show they typically had to pay the track owner a fee and if you didn't you may not be asked to come back and the word amongst track owners travels fast. My point is that you could look at a spread in a magazine for reference for a particular car and it would be correct for that given point in time. a week after that shoot the car could be set up in a complete different combination. So when the experts say this isn't correct or that isn't correct I say to them your best quality of critique is your ignorance!!!! I believe in period correctness as in you wouldn't put a modern day blower on a 70s Funny Car. I believe that most Modelers have a touch of artist in them, in fact Modeling is a art form, that being said anyone who builds should use artistic license. Build for your self not others. Peace Jimmy "RASS"
southpier Posted January 24, 2015 Posted January 24, 2015 that Jungle Pam had a great set of zoomies, eh? 1
Snake45 Posted January 24, 2015 Posted January 24, 2015 that Jungle Pam had a great set of zoomies, eh? Yes, and that was back in the pre-Bondo days. All real stuff! 1
rmvw guy Posted January 24, 2015 Posted January 24, 2015 10thumbs If someone posts up something they're proud of, find something nice to say about it, even if it's the biggest glue-bomb to date - that might be the best job they can muster up because maybe they can't see as well anymore, or maybe they've got early Parkinson's or only one usable hand... the point is they're doing something they enjoy and are sharing it with the world. It's OK to offer constructive criticism... just don't be mean about it, and it's all good. EXACTLY!!!!! Eric, I couldn't have said it better. Complements are Free after all, and if it makes someone feel good, why not be generous? Give more than expected!
10thumbs Posted January 24, 2015 Author Posted January 24, 2015 Hi Ron, That's about the best comment on this topic, my opinion! Wonderfully stated. Thanks.
Mister 4x4 Posted January 24, 2015 Posted January 24, 2015 I don't see any malicious posters here or on the udder board I post on. Mainly because people use their real names and have to be registered to post. That keeps the anonymous Internet bullies away. I was at a show some 25 years ago. I had just finished my '59 Chevy convertible junker and some little 'Richard' looked at it and remarked that I had ruined a perfectly good kit. I thought it was funny and it became a long running joke in my club. I agree I haven't seen much negativity at all here. The overwhelming majority of any kind of criticism I've seen has been constructive, and very acceptable, IMHO. Eric, You need to go back and re-read post # 52. Just because someone offers some criticism does not make them a 'hater.' Throwing that term around indiscriminately is like throwing gasoline on a cook stove; incendiary, senseless and purposeless. And, there was no need for the other pejorative you tossed in. Talk about over-reacting! So, you're critiquing my comments now? Talk about being a nit-picker. LOL (that's sarcastic irony, BTW - just joking... and this is my disclaimer) I guess I'm guilty of being too subtle in my over-generalization of the difference between mean people and constructive criticism. Like Michael mentioned, I've observed many different forums over the years, ranging from electronic techie-stuff, to Jeeps, to Dodge Rams, to airbrushing, to Vintage Mustangs, etc., and have witnessed first-hand 'the haters,' and how they will do nothing but pick-apart anything that anybody posts that they don't like or agree with. Again, I haven't seen any of that here, so I was just lending my agreement to his assessment of nit-pickers (aka 'haters' with non-constructive criticism) bringing nothing but negativity to the mix. I don't have the gift of 'brevity' when I comment (mostly because I work with a lot of people that don't always seem to get what I'm saying - my fault, probably... so I've learned to cover all bases as much as possible), but I usually finish up with the point I'm trying to make. Maybe in the future, you might learn to skip the unnecessary pejorative when you see my avatar and just read the last part.
Roadrunner Posted January 24, 2015 Posted January 24, 2015 I believe that most Modelers have a touch of artist in them, in fact Modeling is a art form, that being said anyone who builds should use artistic license. Build for your self not others. Peace Jimmy "RASS" I already have one. Created for aircraft modeling, but practical for anything really.
om617 Posted January 25, 2015 Posted January 25, 2015 I dont mind constructive criticism and tip and tricks because it might improve my models. When people mention certain type of wheels or colors that might look good,i enjoy it because i store it for later on. I have not recived any rude comments as far as i can remember,but i`m not easy offended either.
Pete J. Posted January 25, 2015 Posted January 25, 2015 (edited) Just a reminder, monkeys pick nits because it feels good to the other monkey and they are a source of protein. A nitpicker does not always wish you ill. :lol: Edited January 25, 2015 by Pete J.
slusher Posted January 25, 2015 Posted January 25, 2015 If someone posts up something they're proud of, find something nice to say about it, even if it's the biggest glue-bomb to date - that might be the best job they can muster up because maybe they can't see as well anymore, or maybe they've got early Parkinson's or only one usable hand... the point is they're doing something they enjoy and are sharing it with the world. It's OK to offer constructive criticism... just don't be mean about it, and it's all good. EXACTLY!!!!! Eric, I couldn't have said it better. Complements are Free after all, and if it makes someone feel good, why not be generous? Give more than expected! Well Said Ron, you never know someone's skill level and limits.. great point...
Pete J. Posted January 25, 2015 Posted January 25, 2015 I guess I grew up in a different generation where you weren't quite so protected, but gratuitous complements get to a point of being annoying. Someone puts a bucket of stuff on the table and everybody is falling all over each other complementing it denigrates the value of a heart felt complement. If you are just complementing someone because you think it is a polite thing is just wrong. If you want to pick something out(great wheels) and complement it that is fine, but there are too many times that every model put up here get 15 "great builds" deserved or not. Make your complements count! If you are going to say it is a great build tell the builder why. I guess you could call this reverse nit picking.
FASTBACK340 Posted January 25, 2015 Posted January 25, 2015 (edited) Ron made a very valid point. A friend of mine had a stroke and it took him a while to get back in the groove. Some people are not so fortunate…… but still participate because they love it. And yes, doesn't matter if it's a modeler, musician, manager, or spouse. Some people just have a knack for good intentions but poor judgement and may go about it wrong. BTW: I saved your Artistic License certificate Kevin. THAT'S getting edited and is going up in the garage. You wouldn't believe the "nit'pickers" in the Mopar hobby! Edited January 25, 2015 by FASTBACK340
rmvw guy Posted January 26, 2015 Posted January 26, 2015 (edited) My small model group at the local hobby shop had more handicapped members than the ones that were not. Some of us would bring models every time. The other guys would bring a started project or most times nothing. If they did bring a finished project I would always offer my compliments. I would see an instant smile. A few guys you notice their heads might swell a little each time. Sooner or later some started offering their criticism on my projects. That will humble you a bit. I always tried to make everyone welcome and listen to their stories. Needless to say, our model group IS no longer. The president of our club announced that since no one was interested in participating our club was terminated. I think some of the guys really miss the getting together and I feel bad for them. I made a few friends and that, my friends, is the reward. Edit: Sorry, had to edit my post here. I got to feeling guilty about some of my remarks. Joe is right in post #94, I am not here to judge people or make comments about their behaviour. I will include our facebook page here if anyone is interested in seeing our models. https://www.facebook.com/muncie.modelers?fref=ts For some odd reason we kept our facebook page. Edited January 31, 2015 by rmvw guy
10thumbs Posted January 26, 2015 Author Posted January 26, 2015 (edited) Hi Ron, It's amazing how internet can reflect real world situations. The dude that's unable to offer anything other than reflections of his own world is a poor creature. This shows often too in internet forums. Behavior. Poor behavior. I'd rather offer encouraging words (by not lying by the way) than to cut on a man's model. Every car model posted here has good points, some are just overwhelmingly good. To cut these is ridiculous, even then though small things could be mentioned. I'll pass at the opportunity. The worst thing is, one of the header pipes on my last model was hanging a bit lower than the other seven. A forum dude told me so. The rest was not even mentioned. Not so nice. I like it here. Michael Edited January 26, 2015 by 10thumbs
southpier Posted January 26, 2015 Posted January 26, 2015 so now we've come to judge models and people? too much for my busy itinerary!
10thumbs Posted January 26, 2015 Author Posted January 26, 2015 (edited) .. Edited January 27, 2015 by 10thumbs
rmvw guy Posted January 26, 2015 Posted January 26, 2015 so now we've come to judge models and people? too much for my busy itinerary! Joe, If you come back to this thread I just want you to know I am not judging people or models here. I realize we are all different with our own set of manners. I remain friends with the man I was bashing, we just have problems with conversation sometimes. The thing we have in common is we both love model cars. I have given up on trying to change anyone besides myself. All I am saying is it never hurts to give a kind word. We all have flaws as well as our models. Thanks for pointing that out. One of my flaws I guess.
Quick GMC Posted January 27, 2015 Posted January 27, 2015 I cant remember what forum I saw it on, maybe an airplane model forum. They had their regular showcase areas for everyone to post their work then they had one conglomerate showcase section where dif you posted your model it was fair game for criticism. If you posted in the normal sections that nobody was allowed to criticize only comment, but if you posted in the special section then you were basically asking for constructive criticism. I think that was pretty effective from what I saw.
southpier Posted January 27, 2015 Posted January 27, 2015 i think there's already a very simple work around for this apparent conundrum which will make everyone warm and fuzzy. when a thread is started, under the title, there's a box for topic tags. the OP can now simply add "please tell me how nice i did" or "let me know if the supercharger looks good in the trunk". now the onus belongs to the OP, and we don't have to change anything from an administrative standpoint. everyone just has to assume responsibility for their actions. quite an idea, eh?
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