Tom Geiger Posted July 15, 2014 Share Posted July 15, 2014 The most amazing stat is that at one time, more than half of all cars on earth were Fords! Now that's dominating the market! Couldn't happen today. The government would've broken it up as a monopoly! The volume they managed to build is amazing considering that there was no computer automation at all. Just making sure the cars got shipped to the right places was a major paper effort! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harry P. Posted July 15, 2014 Author Share Posted July 15, 2014 And even more amazing is that people were able to find their destination without GPS, and survived the drive without AC, cupholders, or backup cameras! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sjordan2 Posted July 15, 2014 Share Posted July 15, 2014 And even more amazing is that people were able to find their destination without GPS, and survived the drive without AC, cupholders, or backup cameras! Of course, when the Model T came out, it was amazing to think that average people could afford such an amazing piece of technology. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
unclescott58 Posted July 15, 2014 Share Posted July 15, 2014 At first I wasn't that surprised by this list. But the more I think about, somethings do not make sense. Were are the full-size GM pickup trucks on list? Up though the 1970's Chevrolet CK series trucks out sold the Ford F-series most years. When Ford did take over sales leadership, the Chevy were always still close in sales. In some cases if add Chevrolet and GMC together the GM truck outsold the Ford. This also brings up the Toyota Hi-Lux pickups. Not sold here under that name in many years. But, a very big sell still in other parts of the world. And I don't know, is the smaller Toyota pickup truck sold in the US really a Hi-Lux under a different name? Scott Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Art Anderson Posted July 15, 2014 Share Posted July 15, 2014 Of course, when the Model T came out, it was amazing to think that average people could afford such an amazing piece of technology. Well, consider that in 1908, when Model T was introduced, they sold for nearly $900. What took place was first, the constant re-engineering of production processes, cutting the number of individual pieces of many components, and then simply "economies of scale", wrought mainly by the introduction of the first truly constant moving assembly line conveyor systems, along with various other means of achieving the mass production numbers that Ford did evenually achieve. As a result, by 1925, a bare-bones, stripped down Model T roadster sold for just $290.00 FOB Dearborn, and that after serious inflation brought about by the rather short but fever pitch of wartime production in 1916-early 1919. Art Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harry P. Posted July 15, 2014 Author Share Posted July 15, 2014 And also... old Henry paid his workers well (for the time). He wanted his employees to be able to afford to buy the cars they were building! Speaking of Henry Ford... he was a man of some pretty strong beliefs. I read once where Ford dealers never offered credit, because Henry Ford felt that buying something on "credit" was immoral. He was finally convinced to offer car financing in the 1930s. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe Handley Posted July 15, 2014 Share Posted July 15, 2014 (edited) IIRC, not only could his workers afford the cars they built, but it helped hold off unionization (he despised unions almost as much as he did Jewish people!), and most importantly, it reduced production costs because fewer people left for "greener pastures" and they weren't constantly training new people, which adds cost to vehicle production. Edited July 15, 2014 by Joe Handley Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Art Anderson Posted July 15, 2014 Share Posted July 15, 2014 And also... old Henry paid his workers well (for the time). He wanted his employees to be able to afford to buy the cars they were building! Speaking of Henry Ford... he was a man of some pretty strong beliefs. I read once where Ford dealers never offered credit, because Henry Ford felt that buying something on "credit" was immoral. He was finally convinced to offer car financing in the 1930s. And yet, Ford was the first automaker to establish their own finance unit, to finance the purchase of new Fords, and that was, I believe, in 1925. Art Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
High octane Posted July 15, 2014 Share Posted July 15, 2014 I had heard that it was the Dodge Brothers who set up the assembly plant for Henry Ford. As far as the best selling cars and trucks go, it has no effect on me as I buy what I like, and through my own observations. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harry P. Posted July 15, 2014 Author Share Posted July 15, 2014 I had heard that it was the Dodge Brothers who set up the assembly plant for Henry Ford. I haven't heard that, but I do think that Dodge supplied Ford with engines and chassis early on, and even owned a piece of the Ford company. Early Fords were actually Dodges in disguise! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Art Anderson Posted July 16, 2014 Share Posted July 16, 2014 (edited) I haven't heard that, but I do think that Dodge supplied Ford with engines and chassis early on, and even owned a piece of the Ford company. Early Fords were actually Dodges in disguise! The Dodge Brothers, John & Horace, owned a rather large foundry in Detroit at the time of the startup of Ford Motor Company, and were among the original backers (stockholders) of Ford. Dodge Brothers supplied castings (up to and including engine blocks) to Ford for several years, until Ford established their own foundry. In addition, Dodge Brothers did foundry work for numerous Detroit-area automakers in the same time period. It's well-known of course, that Dodge Brothers established their own automobile assembly line, that beginning in 1915, as a manufacturer of of lower mid-price range cars (Many US Army officers, including General John J. Pershing--commander of the AEF in France 1917-18) used Dodge Brothers Touring Cars as their staff cars). As far as any Fords somehow being "Dodges in disguise"--nope, Urban Legend--as when the Dodges decided to immerse themselves into auto production, they very closely copied the Model T Ford engine (look at a WW-I era Dodge 4-cylinder, the similarities are quite visible indeed!. The Dodges supplied castings and and smaller parts to several other carmakers, including the largest producer of cars prior to about 1905-06, Oldsmobile. Art Edited July 16, 2014 by Art Anderson Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Art Anderson Posted July 16, 2014 Share Posted July 16, 2014 I haven't heard that, but I do think that Dodge supplied Ford with engines and chassis early on, and even owned a piece of the Ford company. Early Fords were actually Dodges in disguise! Actually, in a way, it was the reverse! The Dodges were out of Ford shortly after their own startup when they sued Henry Ford for payment of their share of the retained earnings of Ford, which prompted Henry Ford to buy them, and the other original stockholders out, with what was by far and away the largest leveraged buyout in history, until at least the 1950's--making Henry Ford the sole owner of Ford Motor Company (albeit with a few shares each to his son Edsel, Edsel's wife Eleanor, and his own wife, Clara, in order to satisfy the corporate ownership requirements of the State of Delaware, where Ford was incorporated). The Dodge Brother's take from that buyout? Some $25 million and change--not bad for an investment of some $10,000 or so in early 1903, huh? As an aside, I graduated from High School with the only granddaughter of Horace Dodge!. Art Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Geiger Posted July 16, 2014 Share Posted July 16, 2014 IIRC, not only could his workers afford the cars they built, but it helped hold off unionization (he despised unions almost as much as he did Jewish people!), and most importantly, it reduced production costs because fewer people left for "greener pastures" and they weren't constantly training new people, which adds cost to vehicle production. The world was taken by surprise by Henry's $5 day, nearly double what the average auto worker made in those days. He realized that if he wanted to sell millions of cars, they had to be affordable by working people. So he raised the wages to create that middle class. And there were some funny side effects. First, turnover stopped dead and in a short amount of time they realized it was actually cheaper to pay the high wage than to constantly recruit and train new workers. Interesting how those things work out! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harry P. Posted July 16, 2014 Author Share Posted July 16, 2014 The Dodge Brothers, John & Horace, owned a rather large foundry in Detroit at the time of the startup of Ford Motor Company, and were among the original backers (stockholders) of Ford. Dodge Brothers supplied castings (up to and including engine blocks) to Ford for several years, until Ford established their own foundry. According to information I found, Dodge supplied the complete engine, transmission, axles, and chassis to Ford. That is pretty much a Dodge with "Ford" sheetmetal. Maybe my sources are wrong? From allpar.com: The Dodge family moved to Detroit, Michigan, in 1886. One of the sons, Horace, was a gifted mechanic. Another son, John, was a skilled financier. In 1887, Horace created a dirt-proof ball bearing at his home workbench. John procured financial backing for a company to manufacture the first Dodge vehicle, a bicycle featuring the ball bearing. The bicycle was manufactured under the Evans & Dodge name in Windsor, Ontario, where they moved in 1899. Windsor is just across the river and U.S.-Canada border from Detroit. The bicycle was manufactured in a building leased from their former employer, the Canadian Typothetac Company. Modest profits from this venture allowed them to open a machine shop in 1901. Ransom Eli Olds, father of the Oldsmobile, wanted the best machinists to manufacture his car parts so in 1902 he contracted with the Dodge Brothers to make transmissions for his curved-dash Oldsmobile. The Dodge Brothers had a small staff, but kept up with demand once production was under way and later expanded to meet higher demand. During the time that the Dodge Brothers were perfecting their machining skills and contracting with companies to make parts for them, Henry Ford was trying to develop a successful car and car company. After meeting Henry Ford, the Dodge Brothers were intrigued by his car and its engine. They were so impressed by Ford and his proposition that they risked their business future on a contract with him. Under the terms of the contract with Ford, Dodge would receive all of Ford’s assets if Ford went bankrupt, as he had before in other ventures. The reason this was included in the contract was because Ford needed money to launch his car, money that he didn’t have. The Dodges agreed to give Ford the $7,000 worth of automobile parts and $3,000 in cash that he needed in return for a ten-percent stake in Ford Motor Company. The brothers didn’t know this, but they would eventually make millions of dollars from that initial investment. Dodge manufactured every part of the Ford car except for the buckboard wooden seats and the rubber tires. Dr. E. Pfennig bought the first Ford for $850. At the time of the sale, Ford only had left $223.65 in his bank account, and was almost bankrupt. However, cash flow went only one direction after that first sale, and that direction was up. Dodge received $10,000 in stock dividends the first year. Ford stock would eventually pay out millions more to them, but for the time being the Dodge Brothers profited handsomely twice: once by selling Ford the parts he needed to manufacture his car, and again by owning stock in his prospering company. In 1914 Henry Ford finished his River Rouge manufacturing plant in Detroit. Its completion meant that he didn’t need Dodge to manufacture parts for his cars any more. Ford offered to lease the Dodges’ plant and run it himself, but the Dodge Brothers had other ideas. By excluding Dodge, Henry Ford would only make his competition even tougher. The Dodge Brothers knew all of the Model T’s weaknesses, so they set out to build their own car to compete with it. Dodge suggested several improvements to the Model T along the way, but Ford refused. The Dodge car, which they’d build in their own factory, would include all of these improvements. They would also use their profit from their dealings with Ford as well as dividends of the Ford stock they still owned to bankroll the new company . In 1913, Dodge announced they’d stop building Ford cars and would design, build, and sell their own car, and on July 15, 1914, the Dodge Brothers made their last Ford part. The Dodge Brothers name was synonymous with quality, and the announcement that they would build their car was as important and as great as the announcement of the Comstock Lode. The Michigan Manufacturer and Financial Record claimed in August 1914 that “the Dodge Brothers are the two best mechanics in Michigan,” and that, “to a great extent, the splendid work of the Dodge Brothers [and] their quality production, has been the silent compelling factor behind the record-breaking sales of Ford.” Ford was not happy that the dividends he paid to Dodge were being used to bankroll his competition. In 1916 he announced that he would stop paying dividends to all shareholders. This hurt Henry Ford the most because he owned 51% of the stock in his company, but it hurt Dodge nonetheless because Dodge counted on the money to finance their company. The Dodge Brothers sued and got an appropriate $19 million in back dividends. In a scheme to buy his stock back and avoid paying future dividends to the Dodges, Ford announced in December 1918 that he was retiring from Ford and turning over control to his son, Edsel. He then left for an extended vacation. On March 5, 1919, the Los Angeles Examiner broke a story that Ford was organizing another company to build a cheaper, mass-produced car on a great scale that would sell for $250. If this was true, it would put the Dodge brothers out of business. Soon after, “the Dodge Brothers and other minority shareholders found themselves mysteriously approached in the following weeks by would-be Ford share purchasers,” Robert Lacey wrote. The Dodges saw through Ford’s plan, but decided to sell their stock anyway. Bidding on each of the 2,000 shares the Dodges owned started at $7,500. Dodge persisted and received $12,500 per share. As they suspected, Ford’s announcement of a new company was false after all. The Dodges received $25 million from the sale of their Ford stock and about $10 million from dividends Ford paid them from 1903 to 1909. This all came from their initial investment of $10,000 in parts and cash. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Art Anderson Posted July 16, 2014 Share Posted July 16, 2014 (edited) Harry, I found the same information after I posted my response. For a very good read on Ford, the Ford family, and Ford Motor Company, the book "Ford, The Men and the Machines" is great. Art Edited July 16, 2014 by Art Anderson Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
unclescott58 Posted July 16, 2014 Share Posted July 16, 2014 Harry, I found the same information after I posted my response. For a very good read on Ford, the Ford family, and Ford Motor Company, the book "Ford, The Men and the Machines" is great. Art Art, I agree with you. "Ford, The Men and the Machines" is a great book. And does a very good job of explaining the relationship between the Fords and the Dodges, and other people. Henry does not come for looking too good in the book. And rightfully so. Nor his grandson, Henry the Deuce. Edsel sounds like he was a good guy, but couldn't stand up to his old man, Henry when he needed too. This book confirms things I read in other books. So it not just the author, Robert Lacey opinion. Lacey just did a great job at making the story interesting. Scott Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harry P. Posted July 16, 2014 Author Share Posted July 16, 2014 As far as any Fords somehow being "Dodges in disguise"--nope, Urban Legend--as when the Dodges decided to immerse themselves into auto production, they very closely copied the Model T Ford engine (look at a WW-I era Dodge 4-cylinder, the similarities are quite visible indeed!. The Dodges supplied castings and and smaller parts to several other carmakers, including the largest producer of cars prior to about 1905-06, Oldsmobile. Art Excerpted from "Dodge Bros. Motor Car Company Plant (Dodge Main) Historical American Engineering Record, US Dept. of the Interior Page 3: History of the Dodge Brothers Motor Car Company Plant, Hamtramck, Michigan, 1910-1980 by Charles Hyde, Wayne State University "John F. and Horace E. Dodge, sons of a Niles, Michigan machinist, moved to Detroit at the turn of the (20th) century, briefly produced transmissions for R.E. Olds, and beginning in 1903, became the major supplier of drive trains to the Ford Motor Company." And from dodgemotorcar.com/history: On February 23, 1903 the Dodge brothers formally agreed to supply Henry Ford with 650 chassis (including engines, transmissions, and axles) for $250 each, thus beginning a profitable, but stormy relationship between the two firms. This contract kept the 150 men at the Hastings Street plant fully occupied and the Dodges began working exclusively for Ford, who built a plant on Mack Avenue to assemble (Ford) cars from parts made elsewhere, the entire operation dependent upon extensive credit from his (parts) suppliers. In return for an investment of $10,000 ($7,000 in materials and a $3,000 bank note), the Dodge brothers accepted 100 shares (one-tenth of the total) in the Ford Motor Company, newly-incorporated on June 16, 1903. Dodge delivered the first shipment of chassis to Ford's Mack Avenue plant in July via horse-drawn hayracks and the Ford Motor Company assembled its first cars. During these early years. Henry Ford often complained that the Dodge workers turned out shoddy products because they were paid by the piece. Despite these problems, he ordered another 755 Dodge engines for delivery in January through May 1904, and insisted on the right to order 500 more by early April. By the spring of 1905, when Ford had moved into his new Piquette Avenue plant. Dodge Brothers supplied 400 "rigs" (engines and transmissions) a month. Dodge continued as the major supplier, but by late 1905 Ford was already taking steps to produce his own engines and transmissions for the low-priced Model N. So I guess the fact that early Fords were "Dodges in diguise" isn't an urban legend after all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe Handley Posted July 16, 2014 Share Posted July 16, 2014 Art, I agree with you. "Ford, The Men and the Machines" is a great book. And does a very good job of explaining the relationship between the Fords and the Dodges, and other people. Henry does not come for looking too good in the book. And rightfully so. Nor his grandson, Henry the Deuce. Edsel sounds like he was a good guy, but couldn't stand up to his old man, Henry when he needed too. This book confirms things I read in other books. So it not just the author, Robert Lacey opinion. Lacey just did a great job at making the story interesting. Scott I read a lot of the same stuff in high school about Ford and as a person, both in the business and personal life, he sounded pretty despicable. Wouldn't be surprised if Edsel's death at a fairly young age had something to do with his father's behavior, as well as why "The Deuce" (which could go a couple ways in describing him) acted the way he did too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Art Anderson Posted July 17, 2014 Share Posted July 17, 2014 (edited) I read a lot of the same stuff in high school about Ford and as a person, both in the business and personal life, he sounded pretty despicable. Wouldn't be surprised if Edsel's death at a fairly young age had something to do with his father's behavior, as well as why "The Deuce" (which could go a couple ways in describing him) acted the way he did too. And yet, as a regular reader of the former "Cars & Parts" magazine, I read many accounts of Henry Ford's "random acts of kindness" toward total strangers in a monthly feature titled "Ford Country". Someone asked him why he didn't just donate to charitable organizaions, and his reply, according to at least one account, was that "he wanted to see his money go directly to the person with the problem (almost always a medical, or disability-related issue). So, apparently there was more than one side to a very complex individual. Art Edited July 17, 2014 by Art Anderson Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mistermodel Posted July 17, 2014 Share Posted July 17, 2014 my thoughts are he T and beetle are the only ones that are cars not simply car names The most amazing stat is that at one time, more than half of all cars on earth were Fords! Now that's dominating the market! maybe history would of repeated its self if not for the buy outs over the years Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mistermodel Posted July 17, 2014 Share Posted July 17, 2014 good read guys Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
unclescott58 Posted July 17, 2014 Share Posted July 17, 2014 (edited) On a side. About early Fords being "Dodges in disguise". One of the acronyms I heard that Ford stood for was, F...ed Over Rebuild Dodges. I guess this maybe true after all. Scott Edited July 17, 2014 by unclescott58 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Geiger Posted July 17, 2014 Share Posted July 17, 2014 On a side. About early Fords being "Dodges in disguise". The start of badge engineering! Later perfected by GM. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harry P. Posted July 17, 2014 Author Share Posted July 17, 2014 On a side. About early Fords being "Dodges in disguise". The of the acronyms I heard that Ford stood for was, F...ed Over Rebuild Dodges. I guess this maybe true after all. Scott It is. Early "Fords" were really Dodges. We're talking about the first series of Model As... not the Model As that came after the Model T. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
unclescott58 Posted July 17, 2014 Share Posted July 17, 2014 It is. Early "Fords" were really Dodges. We're talking about the first series of Model As... not the Model As that came after the Model T. I know Harry. I was joking around. Get it? Scott Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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