What do model builders overlook that could improve their models?

[unclescott58]

Thanks Scott. I knew it was mid 60's sometime. I just couldn't remember the one on my 69 Mustang but I thought it may have had it. I do know that in 69 the shoulder belt became mandatory but it detached and had a clip on the roof to hold it. It also was anchored on the roof panel.

Reinforcements for mounting shoulder belts were required on the '67s. Then for '68, shoulder belts and seat belts for the center passengers were required. Along with side makers (lights or reflectors). Starting January 1, 1969 head restraints were made mandatory.

Scott

Edited July 28, 2014 by unclescott58

[Dale W. Verts]

I have MENTAL issues that keep me from doing many of these ideas...

Thanks Alan for the windshield rant. Cool.

Dale

[imarriedawitch]

Builders build for various reasons, some are more invested than others. For some it's a passion, for others merely something to pass some time. For this reason I wouldn't be quick to assume that any missing details were "overlooked" but possibly something the builder just doesn't care about.

[Ace-Garageguy]

Builders build for various reasons, some are more invested than others. For some it's a passion, for others merely something to pass some time. For this reason I wouldn't be quick to assume that any missing details were "overlooked" but possibly something the builder just doesn't care about.

Hmmm. There are rather a lot of builders who go to considerable effort to make nice models, beyond the casual time-passing level, who miss things that would improve their work considerably. ME included.

No one is bashing omissions here, which for some reason seems to be the assumption of several people. Build what and how you want.

The point is, IF you WANT to build above-average models, WHAT are some things to take notice of. As usual, defensiveness and off-topic drift always creep in.

Edited July 28, 2014 by Ace-Garageguy

[Harry P.]

So many of you guys are totally missing the point of this thread. It's not about "what lazy modelers should do to make their models better." Nobody is telling anyone how they should build their models. The point of the thread is, what are some things many modelers commonly miss or forget, that they could do to make their models better? It's a general question, not a personal slam at anyone!

The replies posted here are not a demand to anyone that they have to do these things... they are simply answers to the original question.

So if you are one of those people who have no interest in making your models better, don't take this topic personally, because it's not directed at you! If you don't care to do any of the things listed, for whatever reason, that's fine... for you! So leave this topic for others who do appreciate the help and the tips.

[Tom Geiger]

1967. Left outside mirror. Dual master brake cylinder. Collapsable steering column. Seat belts front and rear for outside passengers. And backup lights. Before '67 some cars had some of these features as standard equipment. Others had some of them as options. But, they were required on all cars starting with 1967 model year.

Scott

I believe this was part of the Highway Safety Act of 1966 that was finalized in August of 1966. I found many references to the act on the Internet, but just the parts on highway safety. I couldn't find a list of the safety items.

There were a few earlier standards enacted. The automatic transmission shift pattern PRNDL was standardized for the 1965 model year. I'm not sure but I believe the 4 passenger seat belts, left outside mirror, 4 way flashers, back up lights, were in cars for at least the 1966 year, as my 1966 cars all had them. I do agree that the dual master cylinder debuted with 1967 cars.

[johnbuzzed]

A consistent level of detail throughout the entire model . If you BMF the body trim use that same BMF on the interior . If you add spark plug wires then you should add brake lines.

Spark plug wires, brake lines, then what... at what point can one stop?

[Ace-Garageguy]

Spark plug wires, brake lines, then what... at what point can one stop?

Stop where YOU want to stop. Adding ONE additional detail does NOT REQUIRE ADDING OTHERS.

BUT, spark plug wires are about the most basic of added details, and IF you're going to do plug wires, try to get them approximately in-scale. Real plug wires don't look like sausages or hoses or rope, and when they look like that on a model, it's disappointing (and so easily avoided).

[Harry P.]

...spark plug wires are about the most basic of added details, and IF you're going to do plug wires, try to get them approximately in-scale. Real plug wires don't look like sausages or hoses or rope, and when they look like that on a model, it's disappointing (and so easily avoided).

And they don't run in a large smooth arc from the distributor to the plug.

[Tom Geiger]

Spark plug wires, brake lines, then what... at what point can one stop?

At what ever point you want to stop! Me? I will always add spark wires, radiator and heater hoses, battery cables and the brake lines from the master cylinder as far as they are seen under the hood. I have done other details as I've seen fit, or saw as a challenge to do. I generally wont plumb the entire underside of the model. I do add valve stems on nearly everything. It's a great effect for a few minutes effort.

In the above photo you see shifter linkage I scratch built. The transmission is very visible in this model and I had reference photos of a transmission that was for sale on eBay. So I took it as a personal challenge to try to duplicate what I saw in the photos. I did accomplish it to my satisfaction and had a lot of fun doing it. It did give me some confidence for future projects, and I did grow a bit as a result. Would I do this on every model? Heck no.

I am currently working on the Trabant Universal wagon. It's wonderfully detailed under the hood, but I'm finding that some of that detail gets hidden once it's assembled. I spent time cleaning out the spokes in the cooling fan, only to find it nearly invisible behind the fender. I will add the two spark plug wires, the fuel line (since the tank is right on the firewall) and a few other details I've found in on-line photos. I joined the Trabant forum and one guy did a complete rebuild with photos ever step of the way so I have my reference material! And I've already added my valve stems!

If you don't enjoy doing a specific task, then don't do it! Some get frustrated by BMF, I find it relaxing! I've actually done some for guys who didn't feel they could do their own. I would have much rather spent the time showing them how! Once you master it, and it's not beyond any one of you, it's one of the things in this hobby where a minimum of effort yields the maximum effect on your models.

I have built a couple of curb siders recently, so I'm not all that concerned about what people have to say, nor am I going to enter any contests. I got all that outta me a long time ago. I build for my own satisfaction, to get the images in my head out on to the table, and for the few odd folks I call my friends!

[Danno]

So many of you guys are totally missing the point of this thread. It's not about "what lazy modelers should do to make their models better." Nobody is telling anyone how they should build their models. The point of the thread is, what are some things many modelers commonly miss or forget, that they could do to make their models better? It's a general question, not a personal slam at anyone!

The replies posted here are not a demand to anyone that they have to do these things... they are simply answers to the original question.

So if you are one of those people who have no interest in making your models better, don't take this topic personally, because it's not directed at you! If you don't care to do any of the things listed, for whatever reason, that's fine... for you! So leave this topic for others who do appreciate the help and the tips.

ABSOLUTELY, TOTALLY SO TRUE! I could not have said it better if I drafted and edited and redrafted all day long!

Well said, Bentley!

[Pete L.]

Tom,

Odd ?

[Tom Geiger]

Okay... a tip. Someone earlier mentioned that there are different shades of bare metal under the hood and chassis of every car. Buy the full set of Testors Metalizer paints. Each one represents a specific metal, from aluminum plate to magnesium. But use them as you may, looking at each tone, I mean the part on the model doesn't need to be magnesium to use that color, just a part that you need to be a tone or two darker than the other parts near it.

I also keep as many different black and greys that I can find. There truly are 50 shades of grey! Back when my daughter and I built a Suzuki Samurai to match the colors in my Geo Tracker, we discovered so many different grey tones just in the interior. A bit of care here can add depth and realism to your model.

My metallic tones, blacks and greys aren't limited to model paints, I use the full range of things available to me. For instance the cheap Walmart flat and satin blacks work very well. They are very fine and go on light to leave your kit details visible.

And the clears... Dullcote, Semi-Gloss and Gloss are your friends here too. If you have two parts next to each other that should be distinguishable but you've painted them the same black, give one of the a shot of semi-gloss and you will see the difference. BTW, if you shoot a bit of Dullcote onto BMF, it looks like duct tape!

Don't hesitate to experiment!

[afx]

Leaving certain parts off or not going for an extra detail is not always a bad thing. There have been times when I have regretted installing a poorly formed kit part or attempting to add extra detail if the results have turned out poorly. Bad parts or poor scratch building efforts can drag a model down. What you don't try to add to your latest build can impact the results more significantly than what you attempt to add and fail at. Adding out of scale spark plug wires are a perfect example.

[Danno]

Okay... a tip. Someone earlier mentioned that there are different shades of bare metal under the hood and chassis of every car. Buy the full set of Testors Metalizer paints. Each one represents a specific metal, from aluminum plate to magnesium. But use them as you may, looking at each tone, I mean the part on the model doesn't need to be magnesium to use that color, just a part that you need to be a tone or two darker than the other parts near it.

I also keep as many different black and greys that I can find. There truly are 50 shades of grey! Back when my daughter and I built a Suzuki Samurai to match the colors in my Geo Tracker, we discovered so many different grey tones just in the interior. A bit of care here can add depth and realism to your model.

My metallic tones, blacks and greys aren't limited to model paints, I use the full range of things available to me. For instance the cheap Walmart flat and satin blacks work very well. They are very fine and go on light to leave your kit details visible.

And the clears... Dullcote, Semi-Gloss and Gloss are your friends here too. If you have two parts next to each other that should be distinguishable but you've painted them the same black, give one of the a shot of semi-gloss and you will see the difference. BTW, if you shoot a bit of Dullcote onto BMF, it looks like duct tape!

Don't hesitate to experiment!

Hear, hear! Good stuff that's easily overlooked.

Am I odd, too, Tom?

[johnbuzzed]

Spark plug wires, brake lines, then what... at what point can one stop?

My above question was more-or-less rhetorical. I have build models with additional details up the ying-yang and I have built snap kits, right outta the box. But if one examines the logic that I questioned, where does one stop?

Seriously- there is a lot of good advice in this thread, almost worth a magazine article...

[High octane]

I overlook a lot of these details on purpose as I build my models in MY "comfort level" as I build them for myself and my enjoyment. Some builders make a "career" out of finishing a model or are "trophy hounds" which is good if that's what THEY want. Over the years the hobby has been FUN for me and that's the way I'm keepin' it.

[Harry P.]

Tom's tip about varying shades of black, silver, and gloss levels is important if your intent is to create a realistic model. Look at reference photos before you build and, like Tom says, note that there are many different shades of black, gray, silver, etc... as well as many different levels of gloss, from dead flat to semi to full-on shiny. Painting everything on your model's engine or chassis the same exact black or silver makes for a very toylike model. Getting it right takes nothing more than doing a quick image search and paying attention to what you see, and painting your model accordingly. It doesn't take any special skill to do this... just a bit of time and effort.

[Ace-Garageguy]

I overlook a lot of these details on purpose as I build my models in MY "comfort level" as I build them for myself and my enjoyment. Some builders make a "career" out of finishing a model or are "trophy hounds" which is good if that's what THEY want. Over the years the hobby has been FUN for me and that's the way I'm keepin' it.

I may be wrong, but I see this as another backhanded "fun" bash against folks who want to take the extra effort to go farther. IT'S ALL FUN, whether some of us (like me) rarely finish a model because the scale-engineering gets completely out-of-hand, what each of us does, whether "trophy hound" or one-model "career" builder, if it wasn't "fun", I seriously doubt we'd do it.

Fun to me, in part, is solving difficult problems. That's why I build real cars that have to WORK as good as they LOOK.

MY definition of "fun" doesn't have to be the same as YOURS, and neither one is better.

Edited July 28, 2014 by Ace-Garageguy

[Harry P.]

Here'a a good example of what Tom is talking about. A person might just paint the radiator and the battery and the air filter cover "black." But if you actually pay attention to what you are seeing, it's obvious that the radiator is gloss black, the battery is a semi-gloss black, and the air filter can is actually a flat black (or very dark gray). Paying attention to subtle differences like that makes for a much more realistic model, and doesn't take any particular skill to do.

[Tom Geiger]

Getting it right takes nothing more than doing a quick image search and paying attention to what you see, and painting your model accordingly. It doesn't take any special skill to do this... just a bit of time and effort.

Thanks Harry. Just about everything I posted in this thread is easy to do. When I got back to the hobby as an adult and joined a club, my model quality jumped enormously and quickly. I found everything that my new club mates taught me were easy to do things. The only thing that kept my models at grade school level was that I hadn't thought of the techniques on my own. And that's what this thread is all about.

Am I odd, too, Tom?

Pretty much so Dan!

[unclescott58]

I believe this was part of the Highway Safety Act of 1966 that was finalized in August of 1966. I found many references to the act on the Internet, but just the parts on highway safety. I couldn't find a list of the safety items.

There were a few earlier standards enacted. The automatic transmission shift pattern PRNDL was standardized for the 1965 model year. I'm not sure but I believe the 4 passenger seat belts, left outside mirror, 4 way flashers, back up lights, were in cars for at least the 1966 year, as my 1966 cars all had them. I do agree that the dual master cylinder debuted with 1967 cars.

You are correct about the PRNDL (the Ford pattern) being standardized in 1965. This is the reason for Chrysler dropping their pushbutton transmissions and GM ending the pattern of PNDLR on their Hydramatic cars. It was this placing of reverse at the bottom of shifting pattern that was the big problem in the first place. Great for rocking you car in snow or sand. Bad if you go to down shift your automatic and pass low into reverse.

As far as the other items you mention on your 1966 car. As I noted, most of these items were available on several automobiles before 1967. Both Cadillac and AMC had dual master brake cylinders on their cars before 1967. Some of the other items were standard on some models. Optional on others. But, required for all in 1967. Some safety changes came before '67, besides the standardized automatic shift pattern. 1962 requires secure mounting points for front seat belts. But, not the seat belts themselves. Belts were optional on many cars before this. Going back to Nash in the early 50's. Belts for the front two outside occupants was required on the '65 models. Knock off spinners were made illegal for new cars in 1967. So were glass covers on headlights, like you saw on the '66 Chrysler New Yorkers and Imperials.

I believe heaters and defrosters were also required as standard equipment in 1967. At least I know of no American cars that did not come with heaters as standard equipment in '67. On some cars in '66 you either paid extra for the heater, or you could delete the heater. The Feds frowned upon this, because without the heater you had no defroster either. Which reminds me. Windshield washers were also required as standard equipment starting in 1967.

Most of these law pertained to trucks too. But, being commercial vehicles not all did. I hope this information helps clear up a few things.

Scott

Edited July 28, 2014 by unclescott58

[Danno]

I may be wrong, but I see this as another backhanded "fun" bash against folks who want to take the extra effort to go farther. IT'S ALL FUN, whether some of us (like me) rarely finish a model because the scale-engineering gets completely out-of-hand, what each of us does, whether "trophy hound" or one-model "career" builder, if it wasn't "fun", I seriously doubt we'd do it.

Fun to me, in part, is solving difficult problems. That's why I build real cars that have to WORK as good as they LOOK.

MY definition of "fun" doesn't have to be the same as YOURS, and neither one is better.

EXACTLY!

[Tom Geiger]

Per your mention of manufacturers doing things before they were required. Here's a shot of my 1963 Studebaker. Note the dual master cylinder.

Notice the slot in the firewall in the upper left corner of this photo? That was the interior air filter. It worked just like the one on your dryer. Pull it out, bang out the dirt, put it back in the slot!

And since I had the album open... note the word "Vanity" on the glove box door...

And here it is open, a real vanity for women to put on their makeup. And a place to put three beers! Maybe the first cup holders?

The independents did try harder!

Edited July 28, 2014 by Tom Geiger

[unclescott58]

I forgot about Studebaker having a dual master brake cylinder before 1967. (In the case of Studebaker, everything would have been before 1967.) Thanks for the info Tom.

Scott

P.S. Cup holders were found in the glove box doors of many cars at the time. Notice they were really too shallow to hold a beverage while the vehicle was moving. They mainly intended for when you stop someplace to eat. With the location and shape of the glove box and it's door, it was a little impractical to use on the '62 Buick I use to own. By the way. I've seen opening glove boxes on model cars. I don't know if I've ever seen anyone duplicate this feature?

Edited July 28, 2014 by unclescott58