Bernard Kron

Paul: Try this - http://s16.photobucket.com/albums/b18/gbk1/Hilborn/ BTW, didn't your mother tell you you will go blind making louvers that way - but they will look spectacular if you survive the ordeal! B.

That was the "modern look" that I refered to above. As you can see they, too, "look the business"! I must say. they are ideally located on that 32's hood sides and don't look at all too modern or out of place. just sort of Duesenberg-like. I have some Grandline HO 39" Wooden Staircases (Item No. 5177) that look really nice and are similar to, if not the same as those in the pic. I still haven't tried the .040 quarter round route because I'm knee deep building a tonneau cover and full belly pan for the "target" of those louvers, a late 50's-early 60's Bonnevile style '29 A roadster. I'd better get to it soon, though! Finally, check out Paul Payne's thread in the 1:1 Reference Pictures section (http://www.modelcarsmag.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=9795&hl=) - he's planning a build on the Stu Hilborn Streamliner and Dave Lindsay (SoCalCarCulture) posted some pics of the Jim Lattin recreation he photgraphed at the 2005 Grand National Roadster Show. Now that's a louver job! Paul proposes a combo approach to the pressed louver challenge, to wit: "I'm thinking I will lay out the outline of the louver areas with tape, mark each slot, cut the slot with a razor saw, then cover each slot with Evergreen 0.040" quarter round with the inside removed and the outside ends sanded to shape...". Hmmmm.....

Paul: As far as the exterior and the driver's compartment/transmission area, Dave has given you all you need and then some!

V. Nice! It'll look good at your table at the NNL. Really like interior, simple and clean - just like the whole build. Yum. yum, so tasty!

It's certainly true that with a little judicious spreading and trimming the AMT shell sits nicely on top of the Revell 32 rails. It certainly does on your lakes roadster! I remember this car from some other posts. I love the detailing, like the door latches and the SCTA (?) timing tag on the dash. Where did the wire wheels and the Firestones come from? Another project I'm currently working on is a pre-war dry lakes modified and these look about right for the rear wheels. I'd love to see a WIP on this car. Do you have it posted somewhere? Regarding the steering box, yeah an oversized version would certainly make a fine representation of a rear end, . BTW, speaking of out of scale, I ordered a 1/24 Monogram Circle Track combo kit that I'm hoping will solve all my problems!

Unfortunately the International Race of Champions was a relic from an earlier, less specialized age where “Champions†competed across all disciplines of motorsport. Mario Andretti, Jim Clark, Dan Gurney and AJ Foyt, among others, epitomized this period and it made sense to showcase their skills on both ovals and road courses. In recent years IROC’s all-ovals format devolved into an opportunity for up-and-coming and late-in-their career road course stars to discover just how uncompetitive they could be when pitted against the oval track specialists of today. Inevitably, it just faded away... Still, it is sad...

Second oh yeah ... as you probably know by the time Hilborn ran the car it had no suspension. Ironically, the April 1948 HRM article has an elaborate description of the springs, etc. of the front and rear suspension. despite the fact that Bill Warth had welded the axles to the frame ten years earlier in 1938!

Oh yeah, I forgot, here's a link to some additiomnal pics I downloaded: http://s16.photobucket.com/albums/b18/gbk1...ion=tageditmany

It sounds like you’ve done a fair amount of research so some of this might seem redundant. First off, apparently the car has been cloned and was shown at the Petersen Museum. I would consider this the number one lead in tracking down details.. An excellent thread about the project can be found at http://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/showthr...ghlight=Hilborn . Apparently the car was extensively researched. The thread includes many fine pictures of the car and even a great cutaway drawing of the pre-FI version that shows such obscure details as the location of the hand pressure pump. A brief anecdote about the recreation and referencing the ’23 Chevrolet rails that form the chassis of the streamliner can be found at: http://www.landracing.com/index.php?option...view&id=116 about mid way down the page. The American Hot Rod Foundation has several excellent picture including a tack sharp picture of the injectors (unfortunately without the pump): and a murky color picture under the hood which shows the pump location, some of the plumbing and intimates that the heads were either blue or, due to color distortion, black. All these pics can be readily downloaded. See http://ahraf.com/pioneer.php?pioneer=stuart_hilborn . As far as I know Hilborn is still alive and active and you might contact http://www.hilborninjection.com/ and inquire about the Lattin project and any contacts they could provide. Good clear pictures can be found in Dean Batchelor’s “The American Hot Rodâ€, still in print from Motorbooks International. This includes pics of the car, the often reproduced picture of the FI and its pump sitting on top of the hood of the streamliner, and Stu and Eddie Miller (who was Stu’s mentor and who Stu refers too, unnamed, in the American Hot Rod Foundation on-line video clip) crouching in front of the streamliner’s chassis, giving a sense of scale and how the front axle is welded to the frame. Two good clear shots, including this one in color: can be found in “The Birth of Hot Rodding†by Robert Genat and Don Cox from Motorbooks International. For a wonderful sequence of the evolution of the original Bill Warth modified into the Hilborn streamliner see Albert Drake’s “Flat Out†(available from the author at http://www.rdrop.com/~moss/flatout/ ) , pg. 20. Some pages from the legendary “Veda Orr’s Hot Rod Pictorial†showing the Hilborn Streamliner are reproduced at http://positiveapeindex.blogspot.com/2006/...ctorial_21.html . A remarkably inaccurate article from the April 1948 issue of Hot Rod Magazine, where the Streamliner is the cover car and Hot Rod of The Month features the only interior shot of the streamliner I’ve ever seen, including a clear representation of the pedals, butterfly steering wheel, transmission and less clear depiction of the dashboard. The first year of HRM is available as a paperback book from Motorbooks Internation under the title “Hot Rod Magazine – The First 12 issuesâ€. I hope some of this helps, anyway. It really is a beautiful car and deserves to be accurately modeled.

Thanks. Raul: Yeah, the 283 does have the Potvin and it’s pretty finely detailed. These rigs often had fabricated log manifolds so adapting this set up to a hemi wouldn’t be too much of a problem. I saw one of these 283 Parts Packs go last night on e-bay for $3.99 – oh well, missed it! Paul (jeez, your names are too similar...at least on the printed page): The Gordon-Schroeder piece is really pretty, almost like a mini quick change in its detailing. I doubt that I’m up to sculpting the castings out of styrene in 1/25th, though. That’s why I was hoping to kit bash it. I have seen a Revellogram Sprint Car/Kurtis-Craft Indy Car combo kit that might be the answer to 2 out of 3 of the above parts searches and maybe some nice torsion bar lever arms as well if I’m really lucky. Click on image to view: As to the shell, it’s the AMT A ’29 Roadster in one of it’s many iterations over the years. I buy them on e-bay when I can find them cheaply enough. The kits generally get a bad rap with a lot of folks substituting various Revell parts for the AMT bits, but the more I work with them the more I find things in them that are useful. I saw your post re: a stock 32 chassis and I think you might be able to use the rear crossmember from the AMT kit along with Revell’s ‘32 chassis to allow for a leaf spring rear end (I actually think the AMT crossmember is better detailed than the Revell piece). Of course over at R&MCo-of-Md. Rik Hoving has done this for you (using Revell parts) for $14.95. (See http://public.fotki.com/Rikster/model_cars...m_frame_01.html and http://public.fotki.com/Rikster/model_cars...cm_frame02.html ) Unfortunately the chassis is too wide for the A Body so you still have some cutting and fitting to do for the classic A V8 with ’32 rails. I’m actually also building a channeled flathead A V8 and am currently making a set of rails from styrene strip. I plan to use the Revell dropped front axle from one of their A kits and the rear crossmember and spring from the AMT kit. Last night I corrected the stance. Here are some mockups with wheels. It obviously will need a belly pan! Click on images to view:

This will be a mid 50’s to early 60’s Bonneville roadster. So far I’ve got the frame roughed in. The rails are currently too long front and rear while I mock up the suspension and bodywork. I’ll probably will put in rear braces on the roll bar once I determine the rear suspension set up. Suspension will be a quick change rear end and a tubular front axle. I’m planning on building a torsion bar set up if my model building chops are up to it. I’m getting some MCG grill shells and track noses that I will use as inspiration for the final product. I can’t decide whether to stick with the stock A shell, go with a 32 shell or maybe a track nose. I’ll mock things up when the shells arrive next week. Now for the stuff I need to find: 1) 50’s Indy Style Halihrand mag wheels, preferably 16†fronts and 18†rears with period Indy style tires, Any thoughts as to where to find these? 2) Potvin style front mount blown hemi. I know the Revell Parts Pack small block Chevy has a front mount Jimmy set up and I have lotsa Dodge hemis from the AMT Model kits I’ve got so maybe I can adapt that. Again, any tips would be appreciated. 3) Track roadster style steering box. Is there an old style dirt track midget or roadster kit that has this? The interior will be bare body color paint with a single bucket seat and minimum gauges. I plan to build it so that the body work can be removed for separate display of the chassis. I’m planning a full belly pan so I don’t know how practical this will be. I have no idea what color, paint scheme and decals I’ll use at this point. If you can’t tell, I have a very improvisational approach to my builds! [url="http://i16.photobucket.com/albums/b18/gbk1/Bonnevile%2029%20A%20WIP/IMG_0061-copy-web.jpg"][img=http://i16.photobucket.com/albums/b18/gbk1/Bonnevile%2029%20A%20WIP/th_IMG_0061-copy-web.jpg][/url] [url="http://i16.photobucket.com/albums/b18/gbk1/Bonnevile%2029%20A%20WIP/IMG_0065-copy-web.jpg"][img=http://i16.photobucket.com/albums/b18/gbk1/Bonnevile%2029%20A%20WIP/th_IMG_0065-copy-web.jpg][/url] [url="http://i16.photobucket.com/albums/b18/gbk1/Bonnevile%2029%20A%20WIP/IMG_0064-copy-web.jpg"][img=http://i16.photobucket.com/albums/b18/gbk1/Bonnevile%2029%20A%20WIP/th_IMG_0064-copy-web.jpg][/url] [/codebox]

Lovely! Now if one of the aftermarket houses would make up sheets of various widths of these.... Thanx for the pic, Lyle

Beeootifulll build!! Those carbs are SCARY .... tell me those aren't butterflies I see there!

Thanx everyone! So far the best approaches to modeling pressed louvers in plastic I’ve seen seem to be either to use pre-existing louvers from another kit, like the Goodguys ’32 Roadster from RMC or the alternative hood from their 49 Merc, or to build your own using styrene strip. Thanks for the photo of the VW Bus vents Dave. You are right. they do look the business! Do you file the corners before or after you cement them to the panel? The spacing looks like less than one louver width. Do you use a standard spacer when laying them down? How do you make sure they are all the same length, or do you true them up after laying them down? As it happens I have some .040 quarter round so I’ll have a go at it. I’ll report back on my impressions in a few days. I still think somebody should do louvers in p/e or pre-pressed metal strips. Then you’d see them all over the place on our models!

I use Elmer's Carpenter's Wood Glue for my preliminary builds and mock up work before I tear down and paint and do my final assemblies. It’s pretty much the same as white glue except that its tackier so it makes alignments a little easier. It’s also more yellow so it’s easier to spot for clean up. The problem I have with it is that it eventually “sheets†and stops holding the parts together so I have to re-cement things as I progress through the build. Any ideas for alternatives.? Do you have specific temporary adhesives you use for specific task?

Hey Raul: Very tasty indeed! B.

Hey Jody: No hurry on my end - I'm in the middle of scratchbuilding some frames myself and have some new models arriving in a couple of days that will need starting so I can wait. Great to hear that you'll be laying down some louvers on a rear deck. I suspect that's probably some sort of acid test. Looking forward to your “tutorialâ€...

Thanks Andy. I was going to try the 2" R&M but now I'm sure that wouldn't be enough. I'm going with the 4"MCG instead, with vertical bars.

From the LHS: all kinds of Evergreen plastic strips, rod and tube of various sizes to scratch build some frames plus some Plastruct corrugated roofing stock to make tuck and roll interiors, as well as Plastruct square tile sheet for more modern interior work. Two AMT 29 Model A roadsters and an AMT 34 5-window won on Fee Bay arrive in the next couple of days. Yippee! I’ve got this Old Skool fixation happening right now – lots of dry lakes modifieds and channeled coupes/roadsters in various states of disarray on the workbench...

Real radical and real sharp! I'm working on a similar project, but w/o chop, less radical stance, enclosed engine compartment, and with the weird self-imposed rule of trying to use as much of the original kit (RMC Good Guys 3-Window) as possible. Is that an aftermarket grill shell (2†chopped Replica’s & Miniatures?) This is one area where I’m thinking I’ll break my own rule since p/e grills look so cool!

Thanks Jody. As I replied to the post above, I am going to try the quarter round route. I’ll start with surface mounted louvers to keep things simple. I have a miter box so that solves the equal length issue mentioned above. Thanks for the tip on using a strip as a spacer. And also suggesting rounding the corners in advance, since this avoids much fiddly work later! It’s tempting to go whole hog and try your cut-out suggestion but this adds a whole level of complication I’d like to avoid right now. Have you tried either of these approaches in your larger scale work? And, did the truck site tutorial involve doing it this way? Sure would be great if you could remember that truck site or find those pics!

Thanks Frank. What a great supplier. Lots of neat stuff in the style I’m working in. I hadn’t encountered them before. The louvers look like re-pops of the old AMT louvers included in many of their early kits. They look funky but perhaps if they are countersunk a bit and cleaned up they might work. I think I have some somewhere to have a go. If not I’ll order some along with that cool flathead V-12 I saw on the Parts Box website!

Thanks Milt. Evergreen makes various sizes of quarter round which might make a good start. The bummer is evenly spacing equal length strips of very small stock. I'll also check out the siding thing which might avoid having to space individual strips. There my concern is countersinking the surface so that the louvers sit properly. Also, conforming to curved surfaces such as the trunk lid mentioned above might be an issue when using siding. What I like about these approaches is that I’m not stuck with one size or length of louvers. Rounding corners is probably not a major concern, although a PITA, I’m sure. I'll definitely have a trial at these, though, to see if either is practical. LHS has a great railway department and stocks pretty much the full line of Evergreen and a fair amount of Plastruct stuff as well. How are those lovely louvers made in the first place when the models are prototyped?

Part 1: I’ve looked “everywhere†and I can’t find a source for scale louvers (1/25th preferred) that could be attached to a body surface. I’d like to avoid cutting out louvers from another model (i.e. the louvers on the Revell Good-Guys 32 roadster, etc.) if possible. I’ve also seen reference to railroad model P/E louvers that look good on 1/32nd models and I’d be willing to look those over but I haven’t found a source for them. I’ve tried railway model stairs and while these look very cool they make modern race car type louvers, not the traditional pressed louvers style I’m looking for. (I’m totally committed to a traditional pre-/post-war lakes and hot rod thing right now). I’d go the cut-out route if I absolutely have to but I think this would be impractical if I wanted to lay down a large set of louvers such as on the back of the trunk lid on a chopped '34 lakes coupe for example. I’ve noticed that very few plastic kit-based modelers include this detail in their work so I suspect I’m not the only one who has reached this seeming impasse. Any suggestions? Part 2: A very cool touch I’ve seen on some of Lyle Willit’s builds is that he cuts open existing molded in louvers from the inside. Before my first attempt at this does anyone have any tips, experience or available how-to’s on this subject?