clear sprays...tamiya or testors wet look...whats the best...

[Snake45]

Snake, I'm not saying your wrong I'm saying it just never happen to you yet, your lucky on that, but I am surprised you never came across this topic or heard of it before.

Oh, I've been hearing of it for more than 20 years. That's why when I've painted a red, orange, or yellow body, I've primed it in black or a blue before the gray primer goes on.

As I said in my previous post, I experienced it with light blue plastic, but only because my paint wasn't opaque enough, which is I believe the cause of ALL these problems, NOT "dye leaching out of the plastic."

[FordRodnKustom]

FWIW a while back I was trying to paint the yellow plastic AMT 65 Riviera interior white with Testor's enamel flat white then gloss white. Many coats and still yellowish white result. I ended up painting it black and called it a day.

[AC Norton]

.....sorry now I started this thread.....a simple question re. this or that for clear spray opinions, has turned into another life story on 89 paint subjects and god knows what else. this is reason I rarely ask many questions on the forum,,,,,the ace...

[DiscoRover007]

In my opinion OP it was the paint that caused your bleed through not the clear. I've had this issue with Duplicolor paints many times. It might have something to do with how heavy your coats are but you will get ghost lines and "bleed throughs" if you are not careful. I would use primer sealer on any body you want to paint with a duplicolor lacquer.

[Agent G]

I painted a red plastic body with plain old MM Classic White. I used Plastikote primer first.

Turned the body the prettiest shade of pale pink ever.

G

[Mike_G]

My '53 Victoria was molded in red- the white top is PlastiKote white primer that's been clearcoated with Dupli-color clear

[Snake45]

My '53 Victoria was molded in red- the white top is PlastiKote white primer that's been clearcoated with Dupli-color clear

Very nicely done! That Plastikote white primer must be pretty opaque stuff!

BTW, here's a '66 Skylark interior I'm working on. It's molded in a bright emerald green. This is one coat of the cheap Walmart gray primer, followed by two, maybe three coats of cheap Walmart white primer, followed by a couple "dust" coats of Krylon gloss clear for a semigloss "vinyl" look. I did a '68 Javelin promo molded in a bright "Petty Blue" the same way. Both came out VERY white.

Just remembered I had a pic of that formerly bright blue Javelin gut loaded up too.

Edited July 7, 2015 by Snake45

[FASTBACK340]

.....sorry now I started this thread.....a simple question re. this or that for clear spray opinions, has turned into another life story on 89 paint subjects and god knows what else. this is reason I rarely ask many questions on the forum,,,,,the ace...

And in the VERY NEXT POST they run past you and continue the debate! Nothing changes around here!

As for the clear-coats, just test-shoot spoons. This way you can offer a simple answer if the question is ever asked in the future.

[Longbox55]

As far as an on topic answer, I've used both the Wet Look and the Tamiya clears, and find that they work almost identical for me. Never had a problem with either.

[Scale-Master]

I'm with Snake on the whole plastic dye color leaching, bleeding through issue. "Old wives tale" is the same term I use as well.

Paint pulling away at the edges/doorlines (like on Tom's van) is not the same as bleed through.

I think a lot of people perpetuate the tale when they have issues that seem to fit the narration, but in reality, the problem lies somewhere else.

[StevenGuthmiller]

I've never tried Tamiya clear, but I've had quite a bit of experience with Testors.

I always thought it was pretty nice stuff except for the fact that it sprays on a bit too heavy from the can for my taste.

then, out of the blue, I began having problems with cracking of the clear coats.

I'm still not 100% sure of the reason for the cracking, but regardless, it became enough of a problem that I gave up using it on my bodies in favor of Duplicolor.

I've had no issues since.

Steve

[charlie8575]

Hmmm....

I could see either outcome as a distinct possibility.

Paint opacity, chemical reaction or both, could be the problem we all encounter. And yes, I've seen it with heavy-bodied primers, as well.

I've taken to painting, in many cases, red plastic with red/maroon paint directly. Fixes a lot of problems.

Charlie Larkin

[slusher]

I have never used Tamiya clear but have seen in some post about it cracking. Does it still do that...

[AC Norton]

thanks, both john and bill for your straight, informative answers. think I will stay with my Tamiya clear.....the ace....

Edited July 7, 2015 by AC Norton

[Snake45]

And in the VERY NEXT POST they run past you and continue the debate! Nothing changes around here!

As for the clear-coats, just test-shoot spoons. This way you can offer a simple answer if the question is ever asked in the future.

I answered Ace's question back in post #2, which seems to have been forgotten.

[aurfalien]

Well, one can say many things about this thread. But as for me, I learned a heck of a lot and will hope to avoid future pitfalls of this sort.

I will think twice before combining certain colors etc...

This little hobby of ours is complicated.

[Scale-Master]

I have never used Tamiya clear but have seen in some post about it cracking. Does it still do that...

The only time I had problems with TS-13 cracking was when I applied it over paint I found later to be incompatible.

I had really good luck with it early on and starting using it over a lot of different paints and some decals (including Tamiya kit decals). It was a very hot clear and caused issues with some decals that looked like cracking, but was actually more of a wrinkling.

Now I stick to applying it only over lacquers and avoid using it over decals.

[Longbox55]

Not to make this thread go way off course or start any arguments, but I did happen to get a chance to talk to a friend who worked in the plastic injection molding industry yesterday, and I asked him his thoughts on the subject of "bleeding". He basically told me the same thing that Snake has been saying. After discussing it, it does make sense. What we came up with is not so much the solvents making the pigments come out of the paint, but rather the solvents breaking down the primer coats, allowing the color of the plastic to show through. In the case of the example of what happened to me, I was using a pretty stout solvent, which I suspect not only broke down the primer, but also softened the plastic to a degree. I will admit, I did not strip that one to refinish, I simply let it finish curing, sanded it smooth, reprimed and repainted. So it's entirely possible there was some crazing under that mess of a formerly pearl white turned orangey-red that was on it. all I can say, is that to this day, I refuse to use acetone as a solvent for reducing paint for plastic, and have not used fingernail polish for a finish either.

On the Tamiya and Testors clears, I have not seen any cracking myself, but have seen pics from reports of it happening. Only thing I can think of perhaps some sort on incompatability or maybe a bad batch.

[Snake45]

Thanks, Longbox.

If I can find a red body around the joint, I'm going to try a little experiment. I'm going to lay some gray primer on it--one or two or more coats, whatever it takes to look really gray no red--and then I'm gonna mask part of it off and lay some clear gloss (prolly TWLC) on it, then remove the masking and see if the glossy part now looks a bit red. Anyone want to guess what will happen?

[StevenGuthmiller]

Not to make this thread go way off course or start any arguments, but I did happen to get a chance to talk to a friend who worked in the plastic injection molding industry yesterday, and I asked him his thoughts on the subject of "bleeding". He basically told me the same thing that Snake has been saying. After discussing it, it does make sense. What we came up with is not so much the solvents making the pigments come out of the paint, but rather the solvents breaking down the primer coats, allowing the color of the plastic to show through. In the case of the example of what happened to me, I was using a pretty stout solvent, which I suspect not only broke down the primer, but also softened the plastic to a degree. I will admit, I did not strip that one to refinish, I simply let it finish curing, sanded it smooth, reprimed and repainted. So it's entirely possible there was some crazing under that mess of a formerly pearl white turned orangey-red that was on it. all I can say, is that to this day, I refuse to use acetone as a solvent for reducing paint for plastic, and have not used fingernail polish for a finish either.

On the Tamiya and Testors clears, I have not seen any cracking myself, but have seen pics from reports of it happening. Only thing I can think of perhaps some sort on incompatability or maybe a bad batch.

I've come to the conclusion that the cracking problem that I've had with the Testors paint is due to a slower cure time.

I would usually use about 3 coats spaced about 24 hours apart & everything seemed fine for up to 3 to 4 weeks.

Many times the cracking would not begin for many weeks after polishing.

I gave up using the stuff after several seemingly great paint jobs went south after the model was already finished, or nearly so.

Steve

[Longbox55]

Interesting. Any reason you waited so far apart between coats? I usually recoat about 20-25 minute between coats, never had a problem.

[slusher]

The only time I had problems with TS-13 cracking was when I applied it over paint I found later to be incompatible.

I had really good luck with it early on and starting using it over a lot of different paints and some decals (including Tamiya kit decals). It was a very hot clear and caused issues with some decals that looked like cracking, but was actually more of a wrinkling.

Now I stick to applying it only over lacquers and avoid using it over decals.

Thanks Mark, I have been wanting to try it...

[Mike_G]

I like to leave clearcoated bodies in a wetsanded state for as long as possible before polishing them out

Then the paint is stable and will hold it's shine

A month is good

[Snake45]

If I can find a red body around the joint, I'm going to try a little experiment. I'm going to lay some gray primer on it--one or two or more coats, whatever it takes to look really gray no red--and then I'm gonna mask part of it off and lay some clear gloss (prolly TWLC) on it, then remove the masking and see if the glossy part now looks a bit red. Anyone want to guess what will happen?

Okay, I did that. Started with the underside of the very red interior tub of an old Monogram '65 Mustang 2+2.

1. Laid one HEAVY coat of Walmart HomeShades gray primer on whole underside. Let dry two hours. No crazing of plastic.

2. Masked off one side, laid one HEAVY coat of Walmart Color Place white primer on the gray on the other side. Let dry two hours. Removed masking.

3. Examined closely. No red or pink "bleed" on the white half. If you really really worked at it you might be able to see just the faintest hint of pinkish on the gray side, but you'd have to be looking for it. And be generous about what you called pink. (A second normal coat of the gray primer would have handily killed even that, as the white primer did.)

4. Masked off back half of both sides and laid one VERY HEAVY coat of Testor Wet Look Clear on the front half. If TWLC were going to react with ANYTHING underneath, this wet, drippy coat should have done the trick.

5. This morning, removed masking. Absolutely NO tonal or color change between the naked and Cleared white half. The Cleared part of the gray side is now very slightly darker than the naked part, but IME that's normal when glosscoating flat paints. No increased hint of red or pink on the gray side (or on either side, for that matter).

Maybe all I've proved is that Walmart Primer is tough stuff, and very opaque. Those are the facts; I lay them out here for everyone to interpret as he or she wishes. (This isn't worth taking and uploading a picture of--it's just an interior tub with one side white and one side gray. Had I gotten any red or pink at all, I'd post a pic.)

Edited July 8, 2015 by Snake45

[StevenGuthmiller]

Interesting. Any reason you waited so far apart between coats? I usually recoat about 20-25 minute between coats, never had a problem.

Mostly because the directions on the can say that you can recoat at any time & I thought it would be best to let each coat gas out a while before recoating.

If anything, from my experience, it seems that I didn't wait long enough between coats.

It looks as if the first coats are curing slower than the final coat, causing the last coat to crack.

I did plenty of experimenting to see if I could find a relatively fool proof technique for recoating, etc. to guard against the cracking issue but was never satisfied that it would not happen again.

There is a possibility that it may have been a reaction between the MCW paint that I use, & the Testors clear, but If it comes down to deciding between my MCW paint & the Testors clear, it's no contest!

The Testors has got to go! I will not give up my MCW paint!

Steve