Why no cycle fenders?

[Reegs]

The original AMT '32 coupe and roadster had cycle fenders. The Monogram Black Widow has cycle fenders. I'd guess that there was one or two more kits released in the early '60s that had cycle fenders.

Revell releases a new kit of a '29 hot rod designed with a late '50s/early '60s look - no cycle fenders.

All these re-issues over the years - no cycle fenders.

Hmmm.

Sounds like something that an eager, forward-thinking, get-in-on-the-ground-floor no-grass-grows-under-his-feet resin caster might investigate. 

Edited December 30, 2015 by Reegs

[Ace-Garageguy]

    

Revell releases a new kit of a '29 hot rod designed with a late '50s/early '60s look - no cycle fenders.

Yes, the recent Revell '29 is done in that period "look", but it's a contemporary interpretation of the look, with a Ford nine-inch and later-model automatic gearbox.

Cycle fenders were required by law in California on cars over 1500 pounds for a while, and though you saw a lot of them during that window, they weren't so much a "wanted" accessory as a mandatory nuisance for car builders.

Today, they're pretty rare on anything unless it's built as absolutely period-correct.

 

Edited December 30, 2015 by Ace-Garageguy

[MrObsessive]

I may be the holdout on this as street rods aren't my thing, but I actually LIKE cycle fenders on rods! In fact, if I ever get the ambition to build a street rod, it would indeed have cycle fenders on it. 

IMO, just looks more "complete" to me.

[Ramfins59]

I actually LIKE cycle fenders on rods! In fact, if I ever get the ambition to build a street rod, it would indeed have cycle fenders on it. 

IMO, just looks more "complete" to me.

I agree.  I like the "look" of cycle fenders on certain Rods.  I used the cycle fenders from the Green Hornet reissue on a Revell '32 Ford HiBoy that I built.

[Foxer]

I too like them and used them all on my '62 (when built) hot rods.

[Craig Irwin]

I work at a "Collision Center" and we have a regular costumer who has cycle fenders on his 32 Ford 3 window. I can't count the times we have re welded, fabbed new braces and repaired his cycle fenders. He won't let us build heavier braces because "They won't look right". 

[Ace-Garageguy]

I work at a "Collision Center" and we have a regular costumer who has cycle fenders on his 32 Ford 3 window. I can't count the times we have re welded, fabbed new braces and repaired his cycle fenders. He won't let us build heavier braces because "They won't look right". 

Just make 'em out of carbon fiber...   

Edited December 31, 2015 by Ace-Garageguy

[Joe Handley]

That would look cool Bill, not right unless painted, but very cool!

Edited December 31, 2015 by Joe Handley

[Harry P.]

I work at a "Collision Center" and we have a regular costumer....

Maybe some driving lessons would be in order?

[Ace-Garageguy]

Maybe some driving lessons would be in order?

That may not be the issue. Cycle fenders are typically really too heavy for the one-sided mounts used when they get put on cars. The result is that the metal struts or tubes fatigue and break with some regularity.

Carbon fiber struts or brackets can be fabricated to be stronger and stiffer than steel or aluminum, while being the same size or even smaller. Properly designed composite parts also have an infinite fatigue life. The fenders themselves, if fabbed from carbon, wouldn't weigh much at all...just a small fraction of the weight of the same part made of steel.

Problem solved.

 

[Joe Handley]

The whole strut and fender combo in carbon fiber would look really neat if done right,  maybe if there were a way to do the body and other stuff in CF too,

[Craig Irwin]

That may not be the issue. Cycle fenders are typically really too heavy for the one-sided mounts used when they get put on cars. The result is that the metal struts or tubes fatigue and break with some regularity.

This is the case, fatigue cracks over and over and over. It's the look he wants and the customer is always right. 

[Ace-Garageguy]

... maybe if there were a way to do the body and other stuff in CF too,

Virtually anything that's ever been made of another material can be redesigned to be made of carbon-fiber. i even did a violin bow. 

This is a Mustang...and these aren't overlays.

[Joe Handley]

Don't even want to know what that costs, but that is sweeeeeeeet!!!!!!!!

[Ace-Garageguy]

Don't even want to know what that costs, but that is sweeeeeeeet!!!!!!!!

The thing is, it really doesn't have to be astronomically expensive, especially to make a carbon version of something that already exists. Fiberglass molds are made from the original parts, and the carbon fiber cloth and resin is laid-up in a manner very similar to making fiberglass parts...with the exception that carbon, being much stiffer than glass, has to be vacuum-bagged to follow all of the contours in the mold.

People will tell you yuu HAVE to use pre-preg and an autoclave, but that's just bull. For aerospace and F1 parts, yes. Otherwise, no, not at all.

Back around '96, my own company used to manufacture carbon-fiber doors, decklids and hoods for Buick Grand Nationals. The parts were exact duplicates of the original steel parts in shape and fit, but weighed almost nothing. They were marketed by a company called Bowling Green Customs (now defunct, after running their OK-profitable company into the ground by going for the gold and charging credit-cards multiple times for the same part). I think we got something like $900 for a hood, a little more for a door because of its complexity. BGC marked them up, maybe 50%, if I recall correctly.

The carbon and the high-strength epoxy resin themselves really add very little to the cost of custom parts.

The real expense of carbon parts comes in during the design and development phase of prototypes and tooling, when there's an original design and nothing to copy. Getting a high-gloss "show" finish on carbon parts adds cost too, and a bit of unnecessary weight. Most less-expensive race-weight carbon has surface blemishes and voids, and the texture of the carbon weave is very noticeable.

Edited December 31, 2015 by Ace-Garageguy

[Harry P.]

That may not be the issue.

You missed my point.

The guy was a "regular" at the collision center.

Ergo... driving lessons.

[Ace-Garageguy]

You missed my point.

The guy was a "regular" at the collision center.

Ergo... driving lessons.

Well, either I missed your point or you missed mine...

...mine being that a need for driving lessons may very well not be the cause of his frequent visits to the "collision center", as "collision-centers" often do non-collision repairs, and metal fatigue could very well be the reason he's going back regularly (Craig Irwin verified that is indeed the case, above). 

This is the case, fatigue cracks over and over and over. It's the look he wants and the customer is always right. 

[Force]

Many make cycle fenders for rods out of the outer ring of spare tire covers, they are pretty much the right width.

[Reegs]

Mainly because:

- the old /SR rules mandated fenders (although the rules were pretty minimal)

- I just think that they look good

[Greg Myers]

and engine covers.  

[Ace-Garageguy]

Many make cycle fenders for rods out of the outer ring of spare tire covers, they are pretty much the right width.

Indeed, the old-school way was often to cut up spare tire covers...which works fine for old-school narrow-tread tires. 

A problem arises when you start running more contemporary rubber. The fenders get wider, the weight goes up rapidly if they're steel (I've seen 16 gauge steel trailer fenders used, and those things are heavy) and many not-well-engineered struts can't cope with the vibration and other loads for long.

So the solution is contemporary materials and engineering...if you want to run wide tires and not be re-welding your dorky struts all the time.

 

[zenrat]

The problem with scale cycle fenders would be that if moulded at scale thickness they would be incredibly fragile and if moulded thick enough to be strong enough they would look too thick.

 

[fog cutter]

AMT '25 Ford double trophy kit has cycle fenders & Revell '32 Ford rat toaster, too

[Greg Myers]

something different ? 

[Greg Myers]

Something older (hard to find) and a little bigger (1/20th scale maybe?)