Jo-Han 1971 and 1972 Oldsmobile Toronado comparison

[yellowsportwagon]

This is the correct undercarriage for 71-78 Toro and Eldog.

[Ron Hamilton]

On 3/4/2016 at 6:14 PM, Ron Hamilton said:

I did a ;71 Toronado when it was a new car, and I would love to have it back to re-do. Well, I recently found an unbuilt '72 In my stash, which is on the "to do" list. I thought those cars were so cool.

My best friend had a '72 Toronado Promo that was given to him by a family friend. After we grew up, his mom would let the neighborhood kids visit, and of course they played with it. It was rather beat up, but she would not throw it away. Instead, she gave it to me. While the Modelhaus was in business, I was able to get new chrome bumpers and  wheels. I disassembled it,  cleaned and polished it, bare metal detailed it, added washes to the grilles and wheelcovers, and gave it to my friend as a present in a glass case. He was blown away.

Edited March 5, 2018 by Ron Hamilton

[disabled modeler]

14 hours ago, Ron Hamilton said:

My best friend had a '72 Toronado Promo that was given to him by a family friend. After we grew up, his mom would let the neighborhood kids visit, and of course they played with it. It was rather beat up, but she would not throw it away. Instead, she gave it to me. While the Modelhaus was I business, I was able to get new chrome bumpers and  wheels. I disassembled it,  cleaned and polished it, bare metal detailed it, added washes to the grilles and wheelcovers, and gave it to my friend as a present in a glass case. He was blown away.

Very nice of you to do Ron....some things can mean so much to others...even small things...I bet it looked awesome.

[Motor City]

The '71 Eldorado promo came in versions with single and dual exhaust, but only the single exhaust version is correct.  I wonder if Jo-Han used the Toronado chassis because they ran out of Eldorado chassis.  By the way, I remember when the '72 Toronado came out and the E.P.A. rated it as having the worst gas mileage of any American car that year. 

[yellowsportwagon]

On 3/5/2018 at 12:01 PM, Motor City said:

The '71 Eldorado promo came in versions with single and dual exhaust, but only the single exhaust version is correct.  I wonder if Jo-Han used the Toronado chassis because they ran out of Eldorado chassis.  By the way, I remember when the '72 Toronado came out and the E.P.A. rated it as having the worst gas mileage of any American car that year. 

But a Toro or Eldorado was a kick ass open road car. 500lbs.ft. Torque and frt drive made for an awesome highway cruiser. Not a corner burner at all however.

[Motor City]

My first car was a '71 Eldorado and it was a great highway car.

[yellowsportwagon]

On 3/5/2018 at 12:01 PM, Motor City said:

The '71 Eldorado promo came in versions with single and dual exhaust, but only the single exhaust version is correct.  I wonder if Jo-Han used the Toronado chassis because they ran out of Eldorado chassis.  By the way, I remember when the '72 Toronado came out and the E.P.A. rated it as having the worst gas mileage of any American car that year. 

To answer this question. No. The Eldorado chassis comes to a point frt and rear. The Toronado is straight across.

[yellowsportwagon]

Eldo green chassis Toro black chassis

[the other Mike S.]

Too bad Johan didn't continue the Toronado, with updates, through '78.  We could've had the Brougham "XS" version with that cool wrap around rear window.  IIRC, they were one of the longest Oldsmobiles produced at the time (circa 1978) at 227.5" long.

Edited November 9, 2020 by the other Mike S.

[Can-Con]

14 hours ago, the other Mike S. said:

Too bad Johan didn't continue the Toronado, with updates, through '78.  We could've had the Brougham "XS" version with that cool wrap around rear window.  IIRC, they were one of the longest Oldsmobiles produced at the time (circa 1978) at 227.5" long.

Funny you should mention that. 

I know for a '77 XS project car I've been thinking about taking a closer look at. 

I did stop to look at it once last year but it was pouring rain and I didn't like the looks of the two snakes that had taken up residence on the cowl by the windshield wipers. 

Looked just like this one but with all red leather interior.

[the other Mike S.]

1 hour ago, Can-Con said:

Funny you should mention that. 

I know for a '77 XS project car I've been thinking about taking a closer look at. 

I did stop to look at it once last year but it was pouring rain and I didn't like the looks of the two snakes that had taken up residence on the cowl by the windshield wipers. 

Looked just like this one but with all red leather interior.

 

Yes, they were unique cars.  There was a planned T-top for that model as well that was pretty slick with the tops sliding over themselves inside the center bar, but only a few prototypes were made before it was cancelled.

Back in the late '70's, a neighbor (who lived near my grandmother) had one those XS's and I remember staring at it everytime we'd drive by.  I wanted Johan to continue the Eldorado into '77-'78 so we could have the Biarritz model with that puffy top and the full length vertical tail lights that began in '77.  Unfortunately, Johan was basically on life support back then so we were lucky to even have the '77 Coupe Deville.  

Imagine if they were still strong and Cadillac still wanted the promo contract.  We could've had a proper "notchback" '80 Deville and perhaps an '79 E-body Eldorado.  The '79-'85 Eldorado is my holy grail even to this day. lol!

[Motor City]

I own a '77 Biarritz, so it's a bummer that the model car wasn't made.  I had mentioned it to Don Holthaus, and he said he would need my car for a couple of months.  It would have made an awesome Modelhaus kit, but it wasn't practical for me to get it to him.

Thanks for the chassis clarification, Tim.  I didn't want to dig through my Toronado kits.

[yellowsportwagon]

There was three different chassis used for Eldorado promos. 71 had a single and dual exhaust version. 72 had a single exhaust with the muffler on the opposite side 

Brown car is a 71

green car is a 71

off white chassis is a 72

[the other Mike S.]

I wonder what the reason was for so many chassis's?  

[yellowsportwagon]

6 hours ago, the other Mike S. said:

I wonder what the reason was for so many chassis's?  

Gm may have told them to correct it. Eldorado had a single exhaust.

[peteski]

On 11/9/2020 at 5:37 PM, the other Mike S. said:

Yes, they were unique cars.  There was a planned T-top for that model as well that was pretty slick with the tops sliding over themselves inside the center bar, but only a few prototypes were made before it was cancelled.

Back in the late '70's, a neighbor (who lived near my grandmother) had one those XS's and I remember staring at it everytime we'd drive by.  I wanted Johan to continue the Eldorado into '77-'78 so we could have the Biarritz model with that puffy top and the full length vertical tail lights that began in '77.  Unfortunately, Johan was basically on life support back then so we were lucky to even have the '77 Coupe Deville.  

Imagine if they were still strong and Cadillac still wanted the promo contract.  We could've had a proper "notchback" '80 Deville and perhaps an '79 E-body Eldorado.  The '79-'85 Eldorado is my holy grail even to this day. lol!

Yes, I love the wraparound backlight on the Toronado XS!  A man mom worked for in the '80s owned one of those (in white) and I always thought it was a super elegant looking car.

I own a 1:1 '85 Eldorado Biarritz and I too would love to see a kit of the '79-'85 made in 1::24 or 1:25 scale.  NEO makes one in that body style in 1:43 resin, It is a pretty model, but small.

[the other Mike S.]

11 hours ago, yellowsportwagon said:

Gm may have told them to correct it. Eldorado had a single exhaust.

Yeah, but three times?

[yellowsportwagon]

1 hour ago, the other Mike S. said:

Yeah, but three times?

Just a guess

[the other Mike S.]

2 hours ago, yellowsportwagon said:

Just a guess

Makes me wonder how specific the manufacturer was with these promos?  With Johan, their '75-'76 Eldorado had slightly short fender tips that did not extend as far as the real car did if done properly to scale.  Also, the '75 Cutlass had a totally inaccurate front grill/header panel due to it being the '73-'74 body with just a new front grill/bumper.

Would a slightly inaccurate promo chassis with dual exhaust instead of single exhaust be such a big deal?

Just curious.

 

[yellowsportwagon]

2 hours ago, the other Mike S. said:

Makes me wonder how specific the manufacturer was with these promos?  With Johan, their '75-'76 Eldorado had slightly short fender tips that did not extend as far as the real car did if done properly to scale.  Also, the '75 Cutlass had a totally inaccurate front grill/header panel due to it being the '73-'74 body with just a new front grill/bumper.

Would a slightly inaccurate promo chassis with dual exhaust instead of single exhaust be such a big deal?

Just curious.

 

Who knows you are right the 74 and 75 Cutlass promos were wrong. The grilles should have been bigger and the frt bumper was all wrong.

[peteski]

Since manufacturers of promos needed time to design the models and cut the molds, is it possible that promos were based no on a production cars but on some close-to-final-design pre-production prototypes? Things like bumpers and grilles would have been not finalized yet.

[Motor City]

On 11/23/2020 at 1:54 PM, yellowsportwagon said:

Who knows you are right the 74 and 75 Cutlass promos were wrong. The grilles should have been bigger and the frt bumper was all wrong.

An older thread mentioned that the '74 Cutlass started out as a 442, but was changed by Oldsmobile at the last minute to be a Cutlass S.  The poster of this information didn't elaborate on it.  The header panel and grille are for the 442 instead of the Cutlass, but it has the Cutlass hood and emblems.  The '75 grille is about half of the correct height.  I got rid of both the '74 and '75 since they were so incorrect.  

To answer Peter's question, sometimes it's speculation and sometimes the details are correct due to enough lead time and no significant last-minutes changes.  You have to wonder why decisions were made not to update interiors on some models such as the '65 Wildcat to '66, the incorrect bucket seats on the GM full-sized '66 models that should have had slim backs instead of the thicker pre-'66 backs, the MPC '76 Road Runner and Corvette convertible, Jo-Han's '68 Ambassador convertible,  and others I can't think of at the moment.

[the other Mike S.]

The 442 and Cutlass S shared the same front grill/header panel, I believe  The grills on the '74 are a little larger and the header is slightly more squared off compared to the '73 422 and Cutlass S.  By '75, it became even more inaccurate when GM redesigned the grill and header panel to be even larger and more squared off than the '74.   So, the '74 can sort of wing it if you don't look too closely.  It's too bad they didn't make a '76-'77 version, though.  

I still have a few snaps and promos of the Johan Cutlass because no one else did a stock mid '70's GM A-body intermediate.  Except for the Nascar only Chevelles by MPC, the Johan Cutlass was the only game in town if you wanted a scale model of a stock midsized GM intermediate coupe from the mid '70's.   

 

 

Edited November 24, 2020 by the other Mike S.

[Motor City]

Look at photos of the '74 442 and '74 Cutlass S and you'll see the difference.  The Cutlass S and Supreme shared the same squared off grille with vertical bars and the same header.  The last photo is the '74 promo, which has the 442 grille (chrome horizontal bars instead of black) and Oldsmobile script instead of 442 numbers.  I've thought of making a '74 442 by copying the fender 442 numbers from a '70-'72 model, but trying to fabricate the louvered hood killed the deal. 

 

[tim boyd]

Interesting info here on the Jo-Han promos, and the real cars.  Never noticed those diffs before.

As to promo and annual kit inaccuracies vs. the real cars, a lot of it can be traced to the timelines for the model kit and promo tooling development vs. last minute changes as the full size cars went into production.  

At the model car companies, the details on annual kits and promos for the next model year were generally locked down based on manufacturer plans as of March each year, so the tools could be sent out (or new tools developed) into the supply base to be ready for production at the model company plants later in the year.  But the plans for the real 1/1 scale cars often experienced detail changes right up to and beyond Job #1, generally the following August or September.   So there was a 5-6 month period where 1/1 scale cars could change and yet the models and promos were already committed based on the plans as of an earlier date. 

There are many examples of this in the model kit world, and some of them offer interesting insights into the 1/1 scale manufacturer product plans, that changed at the last minute.  This was particularly true during the muscle car years of the late 1960's and early 1970's.  I did an entire article on this, with many examples, in the other model car magazine about 5 or 6 years ago.  Just one example?  Up until the very last minute the 1972 Charger and Challenger performance sub-brand offerings were to continue the "R/T" nomenclature, not the exceedingly generic "Rallye" branding that finally appeared.   How do we know this?  Because the decal sheet that accompanied the MPC 1972 Charger and Challenger promos included the stillborn  "R/T" graphics (and yes, they were different than the 1971 R/T graphics).  

It happened on non-muscle cars too.  The Revell 1962 Newport convertible included a large decklid molding that was entirely consistent with the Exner era ornamentation, but that trim pieces was not found on the 1/1 scale production car.  The MPC 1966 Monaco 500 kit had two errors in exterior ornamentation, surely a casualty of Dodge's last minute vacillation on 1/1 series C-body badging/nomenclature and the impact of same on series differential - the MPC body included fendertop moldings that never appeared on the real car, and was missing the lower front bumper to wheel opening trim that did appear on the real car. 

Hope this helps explain...  TIM     

PS - here's a look at that non-production 1962 Newport trim piece - it surrounds the trunk lock bezel, directly above the license plate....

Edited November 25, 2020 by tim boyd