MOPAR experts-----I could use your input!

[MrObsessive]

I'm looking over some old Johan MOPAR built-ups that I have ('67 Plymouth Fury Conv, '66 Plymouth Fury to name a couple), and I was wondering if the floor stampings were pretty much the same for those years through 1970. I ask because someday, I'd like to restore them, but just can't stand the molded in stuff that Johan gave us back in those days. 

Aside from the wheelbase differences of the B-bodied '68-'70 Mopars, were there any other glaring differences in chassis appearance back then? I could take the later (and much more plentiful) AMT kit chassis' and lengthen (if needed) them to suit the C(?) bodied cars.

Thanks in advance fellas........I'll check in probably tomorrow as it's lights out for me. 1:45 in the morning comes quickly as I'm up then getting ready for work!

[1972coronet]

The C-body line had a subframe (think : Camaro and '68-'72 Nova) ; however , I'm sure that with your prowess , that you could scratch some-thing up to make up for the C-body-exclusive underpinnings . In answer to your other --and related-- question ; use the B-Body chassis as a starting point , then add a handmade subframe .

Another consideration ; the C-body did not have a separate K-member ; it was part of the subframe .

[StevenGuthmiller]

The kits that I have, ('63-'68) Johan Chryslers & Plymouths all share pretty much the same chassis with a few minor variations.

 

Steve

[garagepunk66]

I would think that the logical starting point for the front subframe would be the AMT 57 Chrysler frame. The frame horns differ somewhat and the subframe rails "vee" outward to the rear after the kickup ends; but the suspension, engine cross-member and central section are all very similar. A.#3 cross-member ( the one where the torsion bars anchor) will have to be scratch-built.  For the rear suspension, rails, rear floor, etc., you might  try the JoHan Turbine car as the rails have the right "C" shape to the kickup and seem to be correct for a C-Body car.  

Edited March 18, 2016 by garagepunk66

[gtx6970]

The 57 Chrysler 300 had a full bolt in frame,,,, the C body line in the early to mid/late 60s was a welded in rear frame to integral solid floor pans

 

Something to keep in mind depending  how accurate you want to be, the track width is wider on the C body cars compared to the B bodies

[Mark]

The best starting point would be the underbody from the MPC '65-'66 fullsize Dodge kits, but you don't trip over piles of those at swap meets.  In addition to the differences outlined already, the front inner fenders are way different from those on the midsize cars.  The big cars' inner fenders are rounded, not the straight-through style as seen on the intermediates and compacts.  I've got a rough '65 Fury hardtop on the pile; for that I've been thinking about starting with the Monogram 1/24 scale '70 Road Runner underbody and reworking it using the MPC Dodge piece as reference.  I think the 1/24 scale RR piece sized out about right for the 1/25 scale Fury.  The gas tank is a different shape (I'd probably cut it from the chassis and reshape it), and then I'd rework the front (for lack of a better term) "frame rails" (the Dodge's are more curved than the midsize cars').  Depending on how far you want to go, other areas would need some work too, and of course there are those inner fenders...

[garagepunk66]

The 57 Chrysler 300 had a full bolt in frame,,,, the C body line in the early to mid/late 60s was a welded in rear frame to integral solid floor pans

 

Something to keep in mind depending  how accurate you want to be, the track width is wider on the C body cars compared to the B bodies

 

Bill, if you read my post, I was suggesting the 57 Chrysler frame as a starting point for scratch-building the bolt-in FRONT subframe.   

Edited March 19, 2016 by garagepunk66

[MrObsessive]

Thanks for the tips fellas! Looks like either which way, I'll have some work to do. Regarding Chryco's unibody construction------I don't remember where I read this or if it's even true, but I seem to remember that MOPAR's new for '60 unit construction was nothing more than the full framed cars' front and rear subframes welded in the chassis floors without of course the side rails present. Of course this wasn't a direct translation of that technique, but it was said that Chryco used the '57-'59 frames as a starting point for the new unibody construction.

If that's the case, then one could use that '57 Chrysler 300C's frame as a starting point, of course shortening the pan where needed. Then one would need to scratchbuilld those inner fenders as they are indeed different than the intermediates from that time period. What I suggested might be a more cost effective way to get the results, without sacrificing a rare kit chassis to rebuild something else. 

The best starting point would be the underbody from the MPC '65-'66 fullsize Dodge kits, but you don't trip over piles of those at swap meets. ..

I do have MPC's '65 Monaco hardtop kit (started but never painted), and I'd sure hate to part that one out as indeed they're seldom seen at shows. On eBay where I've seen just the chassis offered, the prices can go out of sight for just a chassis. 

Nevertheless, if I ever get around to building one of these full sizers from that era, I'll cobble up something to be a reasonable facsimile of that chassis.

[gtx6970]

 

Bill, if you read my post, I was suggesting the 57 Chrysler frame as a starting point for scratch-building the bolt-in FRONT subframe.   

Sorry, I mistook it to use the entire frame ,,which I think would be easier to fab from scratch as opposed to all the changes required to the entire frame to look reasonably close to a C body chassis

 

In regards to the front inner fenders, look at the same in the AMT 1962 Catalina as a starting point maybe ?

Edited March 19, 2016 by gtx6970

[om617]

Year and wheelbase on the C-bodys. Trying to find a decent chassis for my "Monaco" station wagon so i stored this from google. 

 

[StevenGuthmiller]

This is just my personal opinion, but it seems like an awful lot of work for something that will rarely, if ever be seen.

I guess to each his own but I would never use up my valuable building time messing with something like this.

But we all have our own thing.

I won first place in the stock category at my first ever contest last summer with one of these Johan Mopar chassis.

Good enough for me.

 

Steve

[Force]

It depends on what standard you want to have on your builds, some don't care much about things that's not really shown and others like to do the model as accurate as possible and don't take shortcuts...mostly for their own pleasure and that you know it's done right.
I belong to the latter crowd

[1972coronet]

 Regarding Chryco's unibody construction------I don't remember where I read this or if it's even true, but I seem to remember that MOPAR's new for '60 unit construction was nothing more than the full framed cars' front and rear subframes welded in the chassis floors without of course the side rails present. Of course this wasn't a direct translation of that technique, but it was said that Chryco used the '57-'59 frames as a starting point for the new unibody construction.

What happened was that the then-new 1960 Valiant ( The first of the A-Body line ) had to be engineered to work with existing assemblyline practises and mechanics (e.g. , Los Angeles and Hamtramck , and their ages-old facilities ; St. Louis , Newerk , and other plants weren't around in 1957-1959 ) . The body-on-frame process had to be maintained to an extent , that's why the separate K-member was introduced ; the K-member / engine / transmission / front suspension / brakes were assembled , and the bodies dropeed-onto them [ here's a link to Allpar's with vintage photos of the elusive Los Angeles Assembly facility : http://www.allpar.com/corporate/factories/los-angeles.html ] .

As far as the employment of 1950's frames for the Valiant  ( not yet under the Plymouth banner ; a separate line of cars sold at exclusive deallers ) I don't know .

The last full-perimetre-frame MoPar built (passenger car wise ) ? The 1965 Imperial .

[tim boyd]

Actually, the 1966 Imperial was the last body on frame....the Imperial moved to the existing (1965-1968) C-body in 1967.  Prior to that, 1958-1966 Imperials were all derived from the 1957 Imperial, which was claimed at the time to be different than the 1957 Plymouth/Dodge/DeSoto/Chrysler platform.   TIM 

[1972coronet]

Actually, the 1966 Imperial was the last body on frame....the Imperial moved to the existing (1965-1968) C-body in 1967.  Prior to that, 1958-1966 Imperials were all derived from the 1957 Imperial, which was claimed at the time to be different than the 1957 Plymouth/Dodge/DeSoto/Chrysler platform.   TIM 

I didn't realise that the D-body stuck around through 1966 (model year) ! IIRC , 1962 was the first year for the C-body and the B-body (?)