Which is better - iffy car with box and papers or nice car and no box?

[randyc]

So when my buddy Todd was alive, our collections overlapped in a few places.  One was the DM 36 Ford.  We both have one.  Mine was boxless.  I'm not sure if I even have the up top.  No papers.  Todd has box, top, boot, but no papers.   My car looks great.  I gave it a cursory cleaning and put it on display.

I just got Todd's out of box from when we brought everything up from his widow's house.   Todd had everything in closed curios.  So I'm curious about the story on this one.  Looked like the car had never been cleaned.  Very dusty.   Under the dust is questionable paint.   Lots of bad stuff going on in the paint.  Nothing fatal, but one of the messiest models I have seen.   Not like Todd to not have at least tried to clean it up either.  I remember him telling me he got it.  He even gave me his green one when he got the blue one.    

So I'm trying to clean this thing up - I polished out most of the imperfections on the hood.  The passenger door looks like someone sanded it with 220 (straight line) and then applied the paint.  the rest of the car is just generally not good.  We'll see when I get done.  I may try to get photos next time I'm down to the building.  This one is so dusty that I'm comtemplating bringing it up to the house for a bath in the sink.

So which is better - buy the car in really good shape and no box, or a lesser example that has issues?  I don't mind cleaning and detailing - I enjoy bringing them back.  BUt this one seems pretty bad.  I'm imaginging Todd didn't see how bad it was in the listing.  Maybe when he saw it, he lost interest?  I'll never know and asking him has not generated a reply.  Yet.  

And btw, I do not believe there is such a thing as PERFECT PAINT at this point in the FM/DM market.   Too many years have passed and paint issues are cropping into the paint of these replicas..  With that said, I have had a few examples that were close and ONE that I honestly could not find and issue with.  (Orange FM 69 Coupe in Monaco Orange).  Todd has some that are close in his stuff.   The 37 Alfa I'm cleaning is dang close.   Beautiful replica - does absolutely nothing for me emotionally.   At this point, shall we discuss the overabundace of RED cars?  On teh bench I have the 1960 Mercedes convertible, the 1936 Mercedes 500K, and the Alfa.  All the same color basically - coulda come from the same barrel of paint.  And this is mentioned in many places.  At least now, Welly and Motormax et al give us more color choices.  

[Geno]

Randy, maybe it's just me but the box and paperwork aren't as important to me as having a nicer model. I don't display the box and paperwork lol. And I agree, I've never found a model that is perfect, some of the lesser diecast have as good or better paint than many a Mint models. I have a new detail project I'm getting ready to start on, I'll keep ya posted lol. But the paint on it is really nice for a cheapie. 

[randyc]

At this point, I have about all the cheaper Mint cars out there.  With or without boxes.  So it's getting harder to stay under that $50 threshold.  But if it's something I want, I start by looking at the cheapest and go from there.  and find myself studying the photos closely for paint and structural deficiencies, like the  67 Camaro and 57 Cameo discussion on the other board.  I'm letting those go for now.  I did get a 57 Dodge truck and the paint is pretty awful on it.  Might try polishing kit on it and see if I can smooth some of it down.  That and it's just a homely truck.  

Can't wait to see a new project on here.  Love those too.  When weather warms, I want to get back on my Jada 58 Caddy.  See what I can do with the paint on it.

 

[Gramps46]

Interesting question and observations.  In thinking about box and papers or more affordable price I often go for the affordability, but if the prices are close the box gives me a little bit more comfort that it will be in better shape.  There are also vendors on the Bay who deal in the papers but I am not trying to make investments and make money so that is not a big factor for me.  I have been extremely lucky to not have many paint issues or dirt or maybe I am just not as observant as you.  I only have one really bad paint problem and that is the FM "aluminum Cobra" which has black specks all over it which will not buff out or come off with solvent.  I did end up putting it away and buying another one. 

The newer generation of affordable diecasts has really impressed me with their paint and in some the level of detail.  When I see them advertised as "loose" or without box I know it is of the drug store variety and subject to damage by playful hands or in shipping.  If they show a box in the ad then I am more certain of it being from a reputable vendor or wholesaler.  But if it is something I really am interested in I will take a chance on those without a box. 

I have spoken about this before but I have benefited greatly from several estate sales on-line.  It is kind of sad but yet I often feel like I am keeping the collections alive and in good hands.

 

Edited January 28, 2020 by Gramps46

[randyc]

7 minutes ago, Gramps46 said:

Interesting question and observations.  In thinking about box and papers or more affordable price I often go for the affordability, but if the prices are close the box gives me a little bit more comfort that it will be in better shape.  There are also vendors on the Bay who deal in the papers but I am not trying to make investments and make money so that is not a big factor for me.  I have been extremely lucky to not have many paint issues or dirt or maybe I am just not as observant as you.  I only have one really bad paint problem and that is the FM "aluminum Cobra" which has black specks all over it which will not buff out or come off with solvent.  I did end up putting it away and buying another one. 

The newer generation of affordable diecasts has really impressed me with their paint and in some the level of detail.  When I see them advertised as "loose" or without box I know it is of the drug store variety and subject to damage by playful hands or in shipping.  If they show a box in the ad then I am more certain of it being from a reputable vendor or wholesaler.  But if it is something I really am interested in I will take a chance on those without a box. 

I have spoken about this before but I have benefited greatly from several estate sales on-line.  It is kind of sad but yet I often feel like I am keeping the collections alive and in good hands.

 

Papers aren't as important to me either.  Something else that has to be kept up with.  I should start a ring binder with nothing but papers in sleeves.  

I don;t have any with fatal paint flaws.  this 36 Ford of Todd's is close though.  We'll see how it comes out.  And another aspect of this would be how important are mirrors/wipers to you?  I can live with a less expensive car missing mirrors or wipers.  Most of my cars are displayed on a shelf at top of room, so you can't really tell if they have wipers and mirrors.  Plus they are easily knocked off or missing anyway.  I save loose ones for later attachment if I don;t want to deal with it.  I have a zip lock bag that I save them in.  

I am not super critical of paint.  But bad rash is bad rash.  And mostly all the cars are still pretty good.  I had a buyer last week want to haggle based on his claim that paint was very bad.  I knew it was not that bad.  We eventually found our price.    

And I bought a car for a friend last week - new no box 66 Chevelle.  You know the ones you see 4 on the tray in a fold top box?  They had cut the whole box and tray.  Wrapped that in bubble and taped the whole thing up with a label on it.  It arrived fine, weirdly enough.  Just had to saw all the tape and bubble off.  

And online estate sales and such thank you for keeping collections in good hands.  lol.   Your box will go today - didn't get there in time yesterday.  

[Gramps46]

Wipers, antennas, rear view mirrors, and hood ornaments seem to be the most vulnerable.  I usually try and replace them if missing but the hood ornaments on the classic are hard to find.

[DukeE]

I've had great models, boxless. I'll look for a meh model with box for cheap, then better car to boxed, and blow off lesser car. We all probably do that. It bumps a bit for my estate sale, that I really should start now. LOL. Been lucky with paint and corrosion thus far. 

[stitchdup]

I dont generally keep my diecast boxes but mine are mostly maisto or welly. Its mostly down to space and I dont mind buying damaged ones either. I should say that I buy them to build as models so to me the size is more important. I was looking at a burago 1/24 porsche 356 this afternoon and while it was very nice it seemed the scale was well off being nearer 1/20 at a guess.

[Gramps46]

3 hours ago, stitchdup said:

I dont generally keep my diecast boxes but mine are mostly maisto or welly. Its mostly down to space and I dont mind buying damaged ones either. I should say that I buy them to build as models so to me the size is more important. I was looking at a burago 1/24 porsche 356 this afternoon and while it was very nice it seemed the scale was well off being nearer 1/20 at a guess.

The Porsche 356 in diecast is a bit of a anomaly.   I am planning a review of the 356s which are available in 1/24 once I get the Franklin Mint Speedster.  But yes, the BBurago and Welly 356s are larger than 1/24.

[Snake45]

59 minutes ago, Gramps46 said:

The Porsche 356 in diecast is a bit of a anomaly.   I am planning a review of the 356s which are available in 1/24 once I get the Franklin Mint Speedster.  But yes, the BBurago and Welly 356s are larger than 1/24.

The Welly is 1/22--I measured. Actually it's 1/21.75, or something. 

As to the thread question, I don't care too much about boxes and papers, nor future value. I'm more interested in subject, accuracy, condition, and price. Plus which, you KNOW I'm gonna throw some Snake-Fu on anything I get, ruining any future "collector value," So I guess you know where I come down on the question.