GM Chrysler Merger??? ( I know not Model Related, so don't Flog mean too much!!!)

[Dragon7665]

Anybody read this???

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20081011/ap_on_...er_merger_talks

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/10/11/business...amp;oref=slogin

Man how weird would it be??? Hmmm a '10 Chevy Challenger

[Joe Handley]

I heard it, but will believe it when I see it.

[HotRodaSaurus]

Anybody read this???

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20081011/ap_on_...er_merger_talks

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/10/11/business...amp;oref=slogin

Man how weird would it be??? Hmmm a '10 Chevy Challenger

Is that one of the latest model Chrysler's or Chevrolets being assembled in that Yahoo pic? I see they are going for the retro look.

[Harry P.]

Chrysler is also looking into the possibility of selling off the Viper brand and car.

What's happening to my MOPAR???

[evilone]

###### if its not a bank monopoly now its going to be a automotive company monopoly

whats next

[Brendan]

It will be a big mistake is GM decides to do this. Look what happened to Mercedes. They used to be one of the best cars you could buy until they took over Chrystler. Ever since then, they've had nothing but problems with their cars. So I'm sure the same thing would happen to GM if they did this. I can't see it going through, personally, just because the trade commission would not let it go through. It would give GM too big of a stake in the U. S. automotive market, essentially creating a monopoly in the market.

[CAL]

It will be a big mistake is GM decides to do this. Look what happened to Mercedes. They used to be one of the best cars you could buy until they took over Chrystler. Ever since then, they've had nothing but problems with their cars. So I'm sure the same thing would happen to GM if they did this. I can't see it going through, personally, just because the trade commission would not let it go through. It would give GM too big of a stake in the U. S. automotive market, essentially creating a monopoly in the market.

I agree, the best thing that could happen, and, which should have happened some time ago is to let Chrysler go belly up.

It would give market share and strength to GM Ford and Mercedes. I mean seriously, why do when need Chrysler hanging around. They build junk and everything they touch has been a failure. Mitzi, which just need another mulit-million dollar bailout, Eagle - defunct, AMC - defunct, Desoto - defunct, Plymouth defunct, DCAG now just Daimler, Jeep, which is still kicking but not what it used to be, and they already annouced cutting their product line in half, possibly dropping the Chrysler or Dodge name plate.

[Mike]

I saw this during the morning new blurb. Apparently talks have taken a back seat until the economy settles down. I also remember seeing Dodge trying to off-load the Viper and GM was looking for a buyer to take the Hummer line a while back as well. This is a speculative rumor, but I've heard Dodge is considering dropping their truck line due to poor sales. Interestingly enough, Buick does very well in the Japanese market. The question is, if they DO merge, who's going to come out ahead?

[LVZ2881]

GM should buy Chrysler, keep the Jeep brand, and kill the rest, increasing their market share and profiting from Jeep...

but thats my .00000002 cents..

[old low&slo]

hey guys gm stock is 4.89 a share !!!!!!!!!

time to buy ??????????

what do you think ?????????

[Eshaver]

You know, i used to say that if you built a G M body with either a Big block Olds or Cadillac motor ( BEFORE THEIR 4100 TOO ), combined that to a Ford Truck 9 inch rear and mated it to Chrysler 727 automatic you could literally shut down the assembly line there after as there would be no need for any more cars. Dang thing might rust out but wear out? Never!!!! Chrysler cant build a car thart satisfies my need s any way cause they sent their electric als to Mitsubishi for an overhaul, maybe they sent their transmissions too cause they aint woth a ###### either. Their body styles are atractive , but Kool body styles arent worth a ###### when I spend what I have wasted at the dealer trying to find out whats wrong with the com puter on the Chrysler From Hell. Thats O K , Im almost finished with a 1978 Ford Van with NO EMISSIONS, POWERWINDOWS, A / C or the other ###### to burn out!!! Ed Shaver

[Peter Lombardo]

Clearly, I have no inside knowledge of the negotiations going on, but from the information I have seen and read, I don’t think the GM – Chrysler merger is really in the cards. There is no real synergy here. GM does not need, and that is the prime word here, need anything that Chrysler can bring to the table. The only real asset that Chrysler holds that would be of any value is the Jeep Brand, and GM doesn’t really need that. Chrysler needs everything right now, cash, new “economy class†product, less production capacity and major concessions from their union workers and GM can’t really help them there.

I think the move that makes sense for GM here, is a buy out, if you will, by Renault / Nissan. There was a lot of talk in the past few weeks that Renault / Nissan was interested in Chrysler. That talk was also fueled by the fact that Chrysler was looking to buy back the 19.9% of outstanding stock still owned by Daimler. The talk was that they either wanted to sell the entire Chrysler operation or do a joint venture with another manufacturer and Daimler would not allow that because Chrysler was still using a lot of Daimler technology. But if Chrysler was wholly owned by Cerberus, then they could sell or “Joint Venture†with whom ever they want.

But last week Renault stated that they have no interest in Chrysler but really want to talk to GM, which they are, behind the scene. Maybe that is a bluff or maybe that is real, but a Renault / Nissan / GM combination would be a real juggernaut.

They would be a major league player in all of the big global markets……US, Asia and Europe. I don’t like the move because I don’t like to see an American Icon, GM, owned by a foreign group, but in this global economy, and the steep decline of American industry, I think this is going to be commonplace. Foreign investors are currently keeping our economy afloat right now. I fear this is just the next step to the pending Socialization of our country…..next stop is government owned banking, healthcare, heavy industry and the curtailments of many of our freedoms. It was sure great while it lasted.

[Harry P.]

Speaking of socialism...

you all realize that by now China basically owns us, right?

The changes that have taken place in this country during my lifetime have been unbelievable. I never thought that the USA would ever undergo such a steep and quick decline-politically, economically, and prestige-wise, in the eyes of the rest of the world. Truly historic times we're living in, and I don't mean that in a good way.

Ooops, sorry... that was too political.

[Dragon7665]

It will be a big mistake is GM decides to do this. Look what happened to Mercedes. They used to be one of the best cars you could buy until they took over Chrystler. Ever since then, they've had nothing but problems with their cars. So I'm sure the same thing would happen to GM if they did this. I can't see it going through, personally, just because the trade commission would not let it go through. It would give GM too big of a stake in the U. S. automotive market, essentially creating a monopoly in the market.

The stupid thing is, Chrysler wasn't as bad as the idiots who were running the place after Lee IaCocca left, had thought it was...... Lee's successor was way too premature with listening to Daimler's Group, he panicked, and he jumped the gun with the first viable offer he had.... Daimler's Group was making it seem as if they were doing Chrysler a Favor, and Help lending their repitation in the World Market, to keep Chrysler from going under too bad.... Had Lee's Idiot successor known what was actually going on, he would have seen that Daimler actually needed Chrysler, as much as they needed them.... Chrysler could have actually pulled itself out of the hole, without Daimler, but they needed to make serious changes to get that done, not something Lee's successor had enough Courage to do.... Daimler needed alot of the Newer, and even Older Technology that Chrysler had to offer, to help themselves with their standing in the World Market....

As for the Trade Commission stepping in to intervein, I would doubt that they would in this case, as there really isn't anyone else to do so..... Right now, in our world, GM/FORD/Chrysler are all struggling, more so than the other World Manufacturers. So to keep two companies afloat, the Trade Commission would allow a Consolidation of the two Companies.... Heck if it came down two it, I wouldn't be a bit suprised if the Big# didn't wind up banning together to creat one Consolidated US Manufacturer...... Toyota,Nissan,Kia, and Etc, have all been rumored to be concidering giving up their costly US Plants, to help restabilize their footing in the World Market(They have already ceased their plans of expanding their current plants, or opening new ones, atleast for the next 10-20yrs).....

As for China Owning Us, where have you been, that's not news it's been more of a Reality for the past twenty years..... Ofcourse as of lately, they have been rethinking what they have stake in us, just like the Other Countries we have as investors, as We have been Pulling all of their Economies down with ours B)

[BigGary]

The interesting part of the GM-Chrysler merger is that Daimler sold 80.5% of Chrysler to raise cash for the Mercedes division. The Chrysler division is the only one that made any profit the last few years before the sale and Mercedes needed help. Also, the German management of Chrysler was getting flack all the way around. Chrysler culture couldn’t deal with the Mercedes business practice and there was conflict. The German president of DC finally gave up and essentially said, “If you can’t lick ‘em, join ‘emâ€. You may remember him from Chrysler commercials a few years back.

To their credit, they brought back the Hemi and brought Dodge back to NASCAR. Those were sound business decisions. Not so great was re-packaging a Mercedes in a different skin and calling it a Chrysler, as they did with Crossfire.

Mercedes would have to approve the merger because they still own 19.5% of Chrysler. They are not about to let their technology fall into the hands of a competitor like GM, especially things like the Daimler 6 speed automatic, considered by many to be the best in the world.

Also, DCX Stock is currently about $4 higher than GM. It would make sense for Chrysler to buy GM, but GM needs a lot of cash infusion to get it out of the stagnated position it has been in for a while. In the current economic condition, the money is not available. With a few exceptions its cars are mundane and nothing with broad appeal has come along lately.

Ford also is struggling this year and their stock is less than an $5. Not a good year for the car companies.

Big Gary

[Peter Lombardo]

Please allow me to explain the post – Iacocca era at Chrysler the way I saw it. I was the General Manager of a large Chrysler store at the time. We were a “breakthrough†dealer. That is not important now, but at the time we were one of 50 select dealers who worked very closely with the factory. I was, at the time, very interested in Chrysler business and politics.

When Iacocca stepped down, Bob Lutz, then President, fully expected to be offered the chairmanship of the company. There must have been some huge underlying tension or resentment that was not showing to the people outside of the inner circle, because Iacocca went outside of the company and recruited Bob Eaton to move into the chairman’s position. I have always felt that Eaton was the “fox in the hen houseâ€. Bob Eaton came to Chrysler after being the head of GM Europe for the proceeding 20 years. Surely Mr. Eaton had plenty of time to cultivate relationships with the other heads of European auto manufacturers because he wasted no time in setting up the deal for the “sale†of Chrysler to Daimler. I say “sale†kind of tongue in cheek, because at the time it was sold as a “merger†of equals rather than a takeover by Daimler but as time went by and the details emerged, it became clear that it was a complete takeover by Daimler. Have you noticed that Bob Eaton disappeared after the deal? He took off and was not seen or heard from again. I heard numbers as high as $100,000,000 (one hundred million dollars) as his take in the deal. Eaton went on to build mansions in Michigan and Naples, Florida surrounded by large high fences.

There was always the question being posed…..would Chrysler rise up because of the alliance with Daimler, or would it be the other way around? We don’t have all of the facts yet, but I think it was the latter; Daimler suffered because of the deal. Since the termination of the deal, Daimler products have been well received and their worldwide stature has increased. The numbers for the auto industry for September 2007 vs. September 2008 sales were horrible, but when Toyota was off -32%, Daimler was only off -8%. Granted they were down but they were far and away the best of the entire auto industry….you don’t even want to see how far the US auto companies are off…Ford -36%, Chrysler -33% and GM -16% (the only reason the GM number is lower, is that GM in 2007 was very bad, so to compare to 2008, the drop was not as large as it could have been).

So the question remains……did Chrysler benefit from the time spent with Daimler? It may still be too soon to know that as it will take time for the facts to shake out and the books to be written, but I think Chrysler got more out of the deal than Daimler did. Daimler had superior platform and electronic technology that was shared with Chrysler. The electronic and computer innovations improved the Chrysler products tremendously, although you would never know that if you drove a Sebring sedan or convertible because, in my opinion, they are horrible. I am sure that Daimler is glad that the deal is over and I am willing to bet that Cerberus wishes they never got involved. It is interesting to me how so many outside of the auto industry think they could do a better job….it is not as easy as they think it is.

[Nick F40]

It will be a big mistake is GM decides to do this. Look what happened to Mercedes. They used to be one of the best cars you could buy until they took over Chrystler. Ever since then, they've had nothing but problems with their cars. So I'm sure the same thing would happen to GM if they did this. I can't see it going through, personally, just because the trade commission would not let it go through. It would give GM too big of a stake in the U. S. automotive market, essentially creating a monopoly in the market.

I agree, the best thing that could happen, and, which should have happened some time ago is to let Chrysler go belly up.

It would give market share and strength to GM Ford and Mercedes. I mean seriously, why do when need Chrysler hanging around. They build junk and everything they touch has been a failure. Mitzi, which just need another mulit-million dollar bailout, Eagle - defunct, AMC - defunct, Desoto - defunct, Plymouth defunct, DCAG now just Daimler, Jeep, which is still kicking but not what it used to be, and they already annouced cutting their product line in half, possibly dropping the Chrysler or Dodge name plate.

I agree, Chris all those companies just went out and are defunct and Jeep, is their only hope and even that is decent but not that great. Shame for Mercedes. Monopoly is right. The Crossfire, is Mercedes, but they haven't been having too much trouble with it, but that was one car right? it huts to say that..Mercedes and Chystler.

That's just a sad thing, if they would merge together, what kind of idea is that? I would never of thought that competitors of totally different cars and trucks would merge. Those two don't have the best quality either, GM's bringing theirs up but Chrystler, yeah right. I don't feel good about this, it don't feel right.

[Peter Lombardo]

Big Gary, I think you have the facts a little out of line here; Daimler did not sell off the 80.1% of Chrysler because they just needed the cash, and the problem they were facing was that the Daimler stock was plummeting in Europe. The major stock holders, which were banks and mutual funds, were telling the Daimler top brass to unload the “anchor†that they had in Chrysler. If that did not happen, the stockholders would have Jorgen Schremps (spelling) head. He was not about to go down that easily, so he had to find a buyer for Chrysler. Chrysler was holding back Daimler’s stock value and the investors would not stand for that. The last few quarters that Daimler owned Chrysler, the Chrysler US operation was losing money very fast.

The Daimler stock, before the financial world meltdown was trading around $80.00 a share, back when Chrysler was hurting their stock value, it was down around $35.00 a share. Now, granted, today their stock in down in the mid 30’s, but that is a reflection of the banking and finance crisis today, not their business or management.

Daimler has now announced that they are buying back shares of their own stock, which is just strengthening the value of the stock. I am afraid the news is now very good for Daimler and not so good for Chrysler. My personal opinion is that Chrysler is far and away the weakest of the so called big three, and their future is completely unknown. Chrysler must rely on Joint Ventures and outside help if they are going to get through this current sales crisis.

[Harold]

All GM has their eye on is the Jeep nameplate. Chrysler and Dodge would fall by the wayside. But right now, with both companies struggling (gee, who coulda forecast that one? Both companies seem intent on jamming more jackassUV's down our throats...). It reminds me of what one analyst commented on the Packard-Studebaker merger in '54- "Its like two drunks trying to help each other across the road."

[Joe Handley]

Ok, some facts about the Daimler/Chrysler "merger" you may not be aware of, (I was an employee of Daimler/Benz during the merger & knew & learned a lot about it then). It was a takeover under the guise of a merger, for one primary reason: Chrysler had a twelve billion dollar pure profit "war chest" at the time that Daimler wanted. Remember how Chrysler was in excellent, (for them), financial & business shape after the early 90's? Minivans selling like hotcakes still, the LH platform cars winning awards & bringing in new customers, the restyled Dodge Ram for 1994, & the Dakota mid-sized pickup doing so well? They were flush with cash, (especially after unloading the financial drain of Lamborghini), had excellent engineering & design staffs, (part of that from their takeover of AMC in 1987), & were on the most solid footing that they had been on in years.

Bob Eaton, CEO of Chrysler at the time, saw the dollar signs in the takeover & the "golden parachute" he could get from it & pushed it through, despite the fact that it wasn't a good corporate fit for either company.

When Chrysler went into a tailspin, Dieter Zetsche was appointed CEO of Chrysler. He was on the verge of getting it straightened out, when Daimler moved him to Freightliner to correct the disaster Jim Hebe, (former Freightliner CEO), & others in management had created there, (I was employed by Freightliner at that time, & I can give a long list of how Hebe & his people ran it into the ground, & the massive management shakeups we went through because of that).

Chrysler was left to flounder, especially as long as they were pumping out SUVs & trucks, (cash cows both), hand over fist. As for the "vaunted Mercedes-Benz quality", & how Chrysler "drug them down", ummm, don't buy that. Being employed by Daimler/Benz prior to the merger I can tell you that all they care about is getting the product out as fastly as possible, no matter if it's missing parts, etc. for one simple reason; as soon as a vehicle rolls off of that assembly line, it is "sold" & paid for, no matter if it's ready to go or not. That's their philosophy & always has been. Quality is by flying squad and management decree at daimler, & no effort to duplicate Toyota's successful ground-up system (adapted and adopted by Chrysler with great success), was expended.

Add in the extreme cost cutting measures taken by Diamler after the takeover. Chrysler lost many experienced engineers, including most of the Viper team, and many were simply fired or layed off without any compensation package. They moved on to GM, Ford, and others, taking with them a strong dislike of DaimlerChrysler. For example, the Ford GT is essentially the third-generation Viper, with better corporate backing. At the time, one plant expansion and modernization (Windsor) was halted, & a brand new, state of the art plant in Brazil shut down, not to mention many other mis-steps by Daimler. Most of the ongoing problems were a result bad management, coming from a mindset that assumes all decisions are best made at the highest possible level, which is how Daimler does things.

Believe me, while I'm not saying that Chrysler would have been any healthier than GM or Ford is now given the current business climate, it's for sure that the takeover by Daimler/Benz hurt both companies, & weakened Chrysler a good bit.

Bout time somebody posted something like that.

[Harry P.]

Ok, some facts about the Daimler/Chrysler "merger" you may not be aware of, (I was an employee of Daimler/Benz during the merger & knew & learned a lot about it then). It was a takeover under the guise of a merger, for one primary reason: Chrysler had a twelve billion dollar pure profit "war chest" at the time that Daimler wanted. Remember how Chrysler was in excellent, (for them), financial & business shape after the early 90's? Minivans selling like hotcakes still, the LH platform cars winning awards & bringing in new customers, the restyled Dodge Ram for 1994, & the Dakota mid-sized pickup doing so well? They were flush with cash, (especially after unloading the financial drain of Lamborghini), had excellent engineering & design staffs, (part of that from their takeover of AMC in 1987), & were on the most solid footing that they had been on in years.

Bob Eaton, CEO of Chrysler at the time, saw the dollar signs in the takeover & the "golden parachute" he could get from it & pushed it through, despite the fact that it wasn't a good corporate fit for either company.

When Chrysler went into a tailspin, Dieter Zetsche was appointed CEO of Chrysler. He was on the verge of getting it straightened out, when Daimler moved him to Freightliner to correct the disaster Jim Hebe, (former Freightliner CEO), & others in management had created there, (I was employed by Freightliner at that time, & I can give a long list of how Hebe & his people ran it into the ground, & the massive management shakeups we went through because of that).

Chrysler was left to flounder, especially as long as they were pumping out SUVs & trucks, (cash cows both), hand over fist. As for the "vaunted Mercedes-Benz quality", & how Chrysler "drug them down", ummm, don't buy that. Being employed by Daimler/Benz prior to the merger I can tell you that all they care about is getting the product out as fastly as possible, no matter if it's missing parts, etc. for one simple reason; as soon as a vehicle rolls off of that assembly line, it is "sold" & paid for, no matter if it's ready to go or not. That's their philosophy & always has been. Quality is by flying squad and management decree at daimler, & no effort to duplicate Toyota's successful ground-up system (adapted and adopted by Chrysler with great success), was expended.

Add in the extreme cost cutting measures taken by Diamler after the takeover. Chrysler lost many experienced engineers, including most of the Viper team, and many were simply fired or layed off without any compensation package. They moved on to GM, Ford, and others, taking with them a strong dislike of DaimlerChrysler. For example, the Ford GT is essentially the third-generation Viper, with better corporate backing. At the time, one plant expansion and modernization (Windsor) was halted, & a brand new, state of the art plant in Brazil shut down, not to mention many other mis-steps by Daimler. Most of the ongoing problems were a result bad management, coming from a mindset that assumes all decisions are best made at the highest possible level, which is how Daimler does things.

Believe me, while I'm not saying that Chrysler would have been any healthier than GM or Ford is now given the current business climate, it's for sure that the takeover by Daimler/Benz hurt both companies, & weakened Chrysler a good bit.

Interesting information from someone who has the "inside scoop". Thanks for posting.

[rollinoldskoo]

i agree with you fellas.... GM probably just wants the Jeep line so they can cut back or get rid of their gas sucking Hummer line....

[tabsscale1]

You guys are not really reading this right. What i have read is Cerberus Capital Management and GM are trying to merge with Chrysler . Cerberus Capital Management owns most of the GMAC financail side and some of the Gm stock. They did try to merge with Ford first as GM and Ford are working together already on some of the Transmisions they have. I am a true blodded Gm person and could really care less unless they start building that ugly ###### that Chrysler makes. I haven't seen anything from Chrysler i would buy except maybe the Magnum. Gm hasn't wowed me either in the last 10 years. Ford has been the only one and that was only the New Mustang. All the japanese cars are also just plain ugly.

[Harry P.]

I haven't seen anything from Chrysler i would buy except maybe the Magnum...

You're a little late. Magnum was discontinued a while ago...

[Dragon7665]

You guys are not really reading this right. What i have read is Cerberus Capital Management and GM are trying to merge with Chrysler . Cerberus Capital Management owns most of the GMAC financail side and some of the Gm stock. They did try to merge with Ford first as GM and Ford are working together already on some of the Transmisions they have. I am a true blodded Gm person and could really care less unless they start building that ugly ###### that Chrysler makes. I haven't seen anything from Chrysler i would buy except maybe the Magnum. Gm hasn't wowed me either in the last 10 years. Ford has been the only one and that was only the New Mustang. All the japanese cars are also just plain ugly.

Huh???? Cerberus was the ones who bought out most of GMAC Finacial from GM, but GM still retained a good 41% of GMAC..... Cerberus was basically given controling interest in Chrysler by Daimler, so that Daimler could try to recover themselves in the World Market..... Now that the dust settled a bit with Cerberus getting Chrysler, Cerberus wants to offer them up to GM, for it's remaining shares in GMAC...... Cerberus wants to have full control to do whatever it wants with GMAC, and GM will be able to do whatever it wants with Chrysler(GM and Cerberus won't merge at any point, right now atleast).....

Yes I could see GM wanting the JEEP line, as they have stated that soon enough, the H2's, if not the entire HUMMER line will disappear reguardless.... GM is set to come out with their own version of the JEEP Wrangler, but won't need to if they have the Original line up in the first place.....

There has also been plenty of talk within GM, about possibly getting rid of the GMC name brand, but if GM gets the Dodge Truck Line up, GM would have a bigger piece of the Commercial Utility Truck Market... Therefore, the need to drop GMC would be moot(Commercial Grade Dodge and GMC trucks are geenrally prefered in the Work Market, so GMC would have a good size chunk again).....

Edited October 14, 2008 by Dragon7665