Sealer for Paint Crazing n old Johan Rambler

[Len Woodruff]

I have primed this body with Dupli-Color Primer/Sealer.

I shot MCW pant over it and some not all places crazed. 

Any thoughts on what would be a sealer so I can use the MCW paint?

[NOBLNG]

This product will seal pretty much anything and is available in aerosol or quart cans. Be sure to get the shellac based stuff. It is great for preventing bleed through of colored plastics too.

https://www.google.com/search?q=site%3Amodelcarsmag.com+zinnser+bin&source

Edited May 25, 2023 by NOBLNG

[Len Woodruff]

32 minutes ago, NOBLNG said:

This product will seal pretty much anything and is available in aerosol or quart cans. Be sure to get the shellac based stuff. It is great for preventing bleed through of colored plastics too.

https://www.google.com/search?q=site%3Amodelcarsmag.com+zinnser+bin&source

Wow I completely for got about this stuff. I think I still have a couple of cans of it.

Do you decant it and thin it with something?

[NOBLNG]

I have a one litre can of it and have sprayed it through my Paashe H. It is pretty thick but doable. It does say not to thin it, but I don’t think they imagine it would be used for our purposes?? They say cleanup is  with ammonia and water or methyl hydrate. I have just used isopropyl alcohol to clean the airbrush. l imagine the aerosol stuff would be thinner? 

Edited May 26, 2023 by NOBLNG

[Can-Con]

4 hours ago, Len Woodruff said:

Wow I completely for got about this stuff. I think I still have a couple of cans of it.

Do you decant it and thin it with something?

I've been using it for over 25 years, Len. Took me years to figure out the best way to use it, here's some tips,,

I thin it with regular rubbing alcohol. Cleanup too. The cheep stuff works fine. 

It really needs to be thinned. It comes out of the can like porridge out of a fire hose, heavy and chunky. Multiple thin coats through an airbrush is the way to go.

A coat of primer or other flat paint under it is a good idea with bare plastic. It doesn't stick well to bare plastic usually but where you're going over something already painted, it should be fine.

It will block dyes from coming up through your paint and will also block hot paints from effecting the plastic under it.

Good luck with it. 

Edited May 26, 2023 by Can-Con

[Len Woodruff]

11 hours ago, Can-Con said:

I've been using it for over 25 years, Len. Took me years to figure out the best way to use it, here's some tips,,

I thin it with regular rubbing alcohol. Cleanup too. The cheep stuff works fine. 

It really needs to be thinned. It comes out of the can like porridge out of a fire hose, heavy and chunky. Multiple thin coats through an airbrush is the way to go.

A coat of primer or other flat paint under it is a good idea with bare plastic. It doesn't stick well to bare plastic usually but where you're going over something already painted, it should be fine.

It will block dyes from coming up through your paint and will also block hot paints from effecting the plastic under it.

Good luck with it. 

Thanks Steve. I will follow your tips and let everyone know the results.

[Mike 1017]

Since I have been using Purple Power to clean off my cars before painting and then soap and water, I have not had any problems with crazing or fisheyes. 409 and Fantastic work very good.

Good Luck

Mike

[Len Woodruff]

I decanted some BIN sealer yesterday. I added some 70% alcohol n a 2 to 1 ratio. I sprayed it but it came out really ruff. Do you have to thin the aerosol after you decant it?

[Can-Con]

2 hours ago, Len Woodruff said:

I decanted some BIN sealer yesterday. I added some 70% alcohol n a 2 to 1 ratio. I sprayed it but it came out really ruff. Do you have to thin the aerosol after you decant it?

Yes, at least 50/50. I'd even go thinner if it's still ruff. BUT it does wet sand out super easy after it dries overnight. 

[Len Woodruff]

4 minutes ago, Can-Con said:

Yes, at least 50/50. I'd even go thinner if it's still ruff. BUT it does wet sand out super easy after it dries overnight. 

I guess I thought the thinner made it dry too fast and that is why I got the roughness. It does sand easily but i was hoping for an easier path.

[Zoom Zoom]

BIN sands super-easy, easier than any regular primer. Does MCW still offer their sealer? It's been years since I shot MCW but they had a primer-like sealer with specific instructions for applying (inside a time window) and it worked like a charm. 

[StevenGuthmiller]

No reason why you can''t use Duplicolor Primer Sealer under MCW paint.

I do it on pretty much every project.

You just have to make sure to use enough of it.

 

Personally, I would never try to skimp on primer when dealing with any hot paint.

One or two coats is living on the edge, especially if you are trying to protect a rare kit.

 

As is always the case in my opinion, when using hot acrylic lacquers, use plenty of lacquer primer of whatever type you want, but spray it in multiple light coats, as some lacquer primers are hotter themselves.

Then, spray at least the first couple of coats of MCW color in the same fashion.

 

I believe that the biggest mistake that people often make with lacquers, and why they inevitably end up with crazing, is because they're trying to hose on the paint far too heavily, especially with the initial coats, at which point, the solvents eat down through the primer, (especially if there's not enough of it) and into the plastic, causing it to craze.

 

I've been using my particular painting technique using the exact same materials listed in the OP's first post for a long time, and I haven't had a single crazing issue in probably close to 20 years since I've begun doing it this way.

 

Again, at the risk of becoming repetitive, the example below (as almost all of my models) has 5 coats of Duplicolor "Primer Sealer", followed by about as many color coats, and as many clear coats.

 

I'm as set as I ever could be in my confidence of my system.

I haven't had to strip more than a couple of bodies in the past 10 years, neither of which had anything to do with crazing, or any other paint anomaly, so there's no need to change anything.

One was stripped because I didn't like the color, the other because my spray pattern was to narrow with a metallic paint, and there were overlap lines in the finish.......That's about it.

 

In the end, the materials Len used are not the problem.

 

 

 

 

 

Steve

 

[Len Woodruff]

Thanks Steve. I will try your technick for the Primer Sealer. Usually i only put  a couple of coats. But I will go back and put 5 coats on the Rambler. Then try the color again.

[StevenGuthmiller]

2 hours ago, Len Woodruff said:

Thanks Steve. I will try your technick for the Primer Sealer. Usually i only put  a couple of coats. But I will go back and put 5 coats on the Rambler. Then try the color again.

When dealing with any hot lacquer paint, you have to be diligent and go slow.

Cover your backside and use plenty of primer, followed by a couple of light coats of color, then heavier coats.

Allow plenty of drying time between each coat.

There is no re-coat window with either the Duplicolor primer, or MCW lacquer.

The longer you allow each coat to gas out, the better the protection will be from the next coat.

I will usually allow at least an hour or so between primer coats, and most often 12 to 24 hours between color coats, and let the primer cure completely before beginning the color coats.

I let it go at least over night.

This will help insure that the plastic is well sealed before starting with the color.

It may take longer than what you would prefer this way, but it takes much less time than stripping and starting over, or sanding or replacing a body.

 

I know that there are individuals that will prime, paint and clear, all in one day, but it seems to me that you're opening yourself up to all sorts of problems going that route.

Better to be safe than sorry.

 

Once you get a good, sealing base of a couple of light coats of color, then you can go with heavier wet coats of the lacquer.

It’s a basic principle that rushing through anything in life is probably going to net inferior results, so take your time, use the right materials for the job and plenty of them, and you’ll go a long way towards preventing problems down the road.

 

And remember, lacquers adhere because the hot solvent will eat down slightly into the previous coat.

That's what you want it to do.

Remember that basic principle when devising your painting strategy.

Anything applied to the body that completely prevents the primer or paint from  doing so, is very likely to cause adhesion problems, and if you have any masking to do down the road, that's not a good thing.

 

 

 

Steve

 

 

 

Edited June 18, 2023 by StevenGuthmiller

[Can-Con]

46 minutes ago, StevenGuthmiller said:

When dealing with any hot lacquer paint, you have to be diligent and go slow.

Cover your backside and use plenty of primer, followed by a couple of light coats of color, then heavier coats.

Allow plenty of drying time between each coat.

There is no re-coat window with either the Duplicolor primer, or MCW lacquer.

The longer you allow each coat to gas out, the better the protection will be from the next coat.

I will usually allow at least an hour or so between primer coats, and most often 12 to 24 hours between color coats, and let the primer cure completely before beginning the color coats.

I let it go at least over night.

This will help insure that the plastic is well sealed before starting with the color.

It may take longer than what you would prefer this way, but it takes much less time than stripping and starting over, or sanding or replacing a body.

 

I know that there are individuals that will prime, paint and clear, all in one day, but it seems to me that you're opening yourself up to all sorts of problems going that route.

Better to be safe than sorry.

 

Once you get a good, sealing base of a couple of light coats of color, then you can go with heavier wet coats of the lacquer.

It’s a basic principle that rushing through anything in life is probably going to net inferior results, so take your time, use the right materials for the job and plenty of them, and you’ll go a long way towards preventing problems down the road.

 

And remember, lacquers adhere because the hot solvent will eat down slightly into the previous coat.

That's what you want it to do.

Remember that basic principle when devising your painting strategy.

Anything applied to the body that completely prevents the primer or paint from  doing so, is very likely to cause adhesion problems, and if you have any masking to do down the road, that's not a good thing.

 

 

 

Steve

 

 

 

Steve, in this case the damage is already done. Len's trying to smooth out the crazing. The BIN can do that.

[StevenGuthmiller]

17 minutes ago, Can-Con said:

Steve, in this case the damage is already done. Len's trying to smooth out the crazing. The BIN can do that.

If it were me, I would strip the body, sand any areas that crazed, and start from the beginning.

 

It's just my feeling that doing it correctly from the onset is a better approach than throwing more things at the wall and hoping that something sticks.

 

Just my opinion.

 

 

 

 

Steve

[Can-Con]

50 minutes ago, StevenGuthmiller said:

If it were me, I would strip the body, sand any areas that crazed, and start from the beginning.

 

It's just my feeling that doing it correctly from the onset is a better approach than throwing more things at the wall and hoping that something sticks.

 

Just my opinion.

 

 

 

 

Steve

Of course, always best to do a good job from the start. 

 

[Len Woodruff]

I did finish stripping the body ttoday. I will reprime it to start fresh.

[Perspect Scale Modelworks]

On 6/18/2023 at 12:41 PM, StevenGuthmiller said:

No reason why you can''t use Duplicolor Primer Sealer under MCW paint.

I do it on pretty much every project.

You just have to make sure to use enough of it.

 

Personally, I would never try to skimp on primer when dealing with any hot paint.

One or two coats is living on the edge, especially if you are trying to protect a rare kit.

 

As is always the case in my opinion, when using hot acrylic lacquers, use plenty of lacquer primer of whatever type you want, but spray it in multiple light coats, as some lacquer primers are hotter themselves.

Then, spray at least the first couple of coats of MCW color in the same fashion.

 

I believe that the biggest mistake that people often make with lacquers, and why they inevitably end up with crazing, is because they're trying to hose on the paint far too heavily, especially with the initial coats, at which point, the solvents eat down through the primer, (especially if there's not enough of it) and into the plastic, causing it to craze.

 

I've been using my particular painting technique using the exact same materials listed in the OP's first post for a long time, and I haven't had a single crazing issue in probably close to 20 years since I've begun doing it this way.

 

Again, at the risk of becoming repetitive, the example below (as almost all of my models) has 5 coats of Duplicolor "Primer Sealer", followed by about as many color coats, and as many clear coats.

 

I'm as set as I ever could be in my confidence of my system.

I haven't had to strip more than a couple of bodies in the past 10 years, neither of which had anything to do with crazing, or any other paint anomaly, so there's no need to change anything.

One was stripped because I didn't like the color, the other because my spray pattern was to narrow with a metallic paint, and there were overlap lines in the finish.......That's about it.

 

In the end, the materials Len used are not the problem.

 

 

 

 

 

Steve

 

The duplicolor can says "seals primed surfaces". Are you using it over another primer or applying it straight to the styrene?

[StevenGuthmiller]

1 hour ago, Perspective Customs said:

The duplicolor can says "seals primed surfaces". Are you using it over another primer or applying it straight to the styrene?

Either or.

Sometimes I’ll use something under it, sometimes not.

Doesn’t seem to make a lot of difference as far as I can tell.

 

 

 

Steve