Nitrocellulose Lacquer (Guitar Paint) on Models?

[DiscoRover007]

Hey guys just wanted to see if anyone has ever tried guitar lacquer on models and got good results? Im curious if its a thicker type of paint?

I found a particular shade of metallic green guitar paint that I'd like to try on a kit of mine and see how it looks.

[thatz4u]

try it in on some scrap sprue so nothing get ruined, just in case it doesn't work

[Mark]

That's probably just a variation on automotive lacquer.  A guy I used to work with has restored a couple of guitars.  He had them painted by a friend of his who operated a collision shop and painted cars.

To use lacquer paints on styrene plastic, the plastic needs to be primed and sealed after all needed bodywork has been completed.  As long as the primer and sealer are compatible with the lacquer, there shouldn't be any issues.

The lacquer might be thick straight out of the can, but it has to be thinned for spray application anyway.  Again, compatible products used together, no problems.

[DJMar]

4 hours ago, DiscoRover007 said:

Hey guys just wanted to see if anyone has ever tried guitar lacquer on models and got good results? Im curious if its a thicker type of paint?

I found a particular shade of metallic green guitar paint that I'd like to try on a kit of mine and see how it looks.

Nitrocellulose is meant to go on in thin but still give full coverage. I've never used it on plastic kits but have refinished a handful of bass guitars using it. As already pointed out, using a compatible primer and/or sealer with the paint you choose is a wise move.

Just a reminder that the metallics are probably going to be out of scale when it comes to model cars, depending on the paint (metalflake vs. pearl, etc.).

[bobss396]

Look at what's in a bottle of nail 💅 polish. Probably any I have used have nitrocellulose lacquer listed in that tiny label.

So treat it like nail polish. Use a good primer, thin it out so it sprays well. Multiple costs to build the color, etc.

I have laid down silver lacquer as a base coat.

[peteski]

I suspect some of  the European members will chime in at some point to mention that "nitro" or "nitrocellulose" lacquer is a common term they use to describe lacquers using "hot" solvents.  It will likely attack bare polystyrene.  You shoudl be able to use it following methods you use for painting your models using automotive lacquers.  You need primer or sealer to protect the plastic from the effects of the "hot" solvent. And of course, like with any new paint product or a  technique you're using for the first time, a test spraying (on a plastic spoon or similar) is a good idea.

And a reminder about plastic spoons:  You need to find ones made of polystyrene (they have recycling symbol 6, 06, or PS).  That will be most similar to the plastic models are made of.  Some plastic utensils use different plastic which is more flexible and resistant to the solvents in paints.

[CapSat 6]

I'm interested in this question. I'm no expert by any means, but thinking it through- personally, I would not want to use this kind of paint on a model car. Here's why: 

Guitar bodies are wood (the "cellulose" in "nitrocellulose".). I'm guessing they use wood, because wood gives a certain amount of heft, it's readily available and inexpensive, and also perhaps because wood promotes a certain tonal quality. 

Musical instruments first and foremost should perform (sound and play) well. 

They also should look nice. 

Acoustic guitars are varnished to give a smooth, glossy appearance. Electric guitars at first looked like acoustic guitars, but they soon evolved into their current form: a thinner, sometimes heavier solid body. 

I guess a smooth finish was desired. Electric guitars don't show woodgrain, they have a perfectly smooth finish. That is achieved by what I would call aggressive sealing and smoothing before the color coat is applied, and multiple coats of clear afterwards. 

To properly paint a guitar, you are essentially hiding and/or obliterating surface detail. The finish itself is the ultimate goal. 

A friend of mine painted a fully stripped bass body with Testor's enamel (the reverse of your question) and it looked terrible. Basically it looked like blue metallic painted semi gloss wood.  

To me, model cars should be painted in a way where the surface detail is not buried (unless you a building a very aggressively finished / smoothed custom). 

It seems to me that the prep required to use nitrocellulose properly would give way too much buildup on a model car body (except for maybe a big scale car- say 1/8 or 1/12 scale, where more buildup and/ or better coverage might be a plus). 

For all of the work and experimentation that would go into doing it right, I would figure using good quality hobby paints, or proven techniques with automotive paints would work just as well. 

Maybe nitrocellulose would be better used on 3d printed or resin kits. 

These are just my opinions, though. for all I know, bold experiments using nitrocellulose might just lead to something big!     

  

 

[DJMar]

Not to get off topic, but nitrocellulose hasn't been used on production electric instruments in decades. The thick, glossy, tough as nails finishes that you see on modern guitars and basses (especially lower end models) are a catalyzed urethane of some sort, NOT nitrocellulose lacquer. It turned out that nitro lacquer wasn't all that durable on instruments, which is just one of the many reasons it was phased out years ago.

Anyway, Bob and Peter have made some good suggestions above.

[peteski]

1 hour ago, CapSat 6 said:

Guitar bodies are wood (the "cellulose" in "nitrocellulose".). I'm guessing they use wood, because wood gives a certain amount of heft, it's readily available and inexpensive, and also perhaps because wood promotes a certain tonal quality. 

Well, while cellulose is a compound in wood, I don't think that the reason you mentioned is for use of cellulose nitrate (nitorcellulose) based lacquers being used to paint wooden musical instruments. As I mentioned  earlier, that name is often used in Europe for lacquers used to paint any type of surface, not just wood. It is more about the fact that nitrocellulose lacquer produces a high-gloss finish.

See https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nitrocellulose

Nitrocellulose lacquer manufactured by (among others) DuPont, was the primary material for painting automobiles for many years. Durability of finish, complexities of "multiple stage" modern finishes, and other factors including environmental regulation led manufacturers to choose newer technologies. It remained the favorite of hobbyists for both historical reasons and for the ease with which a professional finish can be obtained. Most automobile "touch up" paints are still made from lacquer because of its fast drying, easy application, and superior adhesion properties – regardless of the material used for the original finish. Guitars sometimes shared color codes with current automobiles. It fell out of favor for mass production use for a number of reasons including environmental regulation and the cost of application vs. polyurethane finishes. However, Gibson still use nitrocellulose lacquers on all of their guitars, as well as Fender when reproducing historically accurate guitars. The nitrocellulose lacquer yellows and cracks over time, and custom shops will reproduce this aging to make instruments appear vintage. Guitars made by smaller shops (luthiers) also often use "nitro" as it has an almost mythical status among guitarists.

[CapSat 6]

3 minutes ago, peteski said:

Well, while cellulose is a compound in wood, I don't think that the reason you mentioned is for use of cellulose nitrate (nitorcellulose) based lacquers being used to paint wooden musical instruments. As I mentioned  earlier, that name is often used in Europe for lacquers used to paint any type of surface, not just wood. It is more about the fact that nitrocellulose lacquer produces a high-gloss finish.

See https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nitrocellulose

Nitrocellulose lacquer manufactured by (among others) DuPont, was the primary material for painting automobiles for many years. Durability of finish, complexities of "multiple stage" modern finishes, and other factors including environmental regulation led manufacturers to choose newer technologies. It remained the favorite of hobbyists for both historical reasons and for the ease with which a professional finish can be obtained. Most automobile "touch up" paints are still made from lacquer because of its fast drying, easy application, and superior adhesion properties – regardless of the material used for the original finish. Guitars sometimes shared color codes with current automobiles. It fell out of favor for mass production use for a number of reasons including environmental regulation and the cost of application vs. polyurethane finishes. However, Gibson still use nitrocellulose lacquers on all of their guitars, as well as Fender when reproducing historically accurate guitars. The nitrocellulose lacquer yellows and cracks over time, and custom shops will reproduce this aging to make instruments appear vintage. Guitars made by smaller shops (luthiers) also often use "nitro" as it has an almost mythical status among guitarists.

Ah...that's real info. I guess what this says is that it has specific properties that may or may not lend themselves to painting model cars. 

Maybe the thin coats that would be needed would be advantageous somehow. 

I have to figure somebody out there has actually tried this.  

[Wickersham Humble]

Nitrocellulose lacquers 'dried up' decades ago, replaced by acrylic lacquers -- which are about gone nowadays!  I've been painting 1/1 cars since the late 'sixties (shadetree only) and car models since the early 'sixties -- and worked my retirement in a PPF paint store.  DuPont introduced the n-c lacs as "Duco" finishes back in the early thirties, as I recall, and it took over at GM; Ford, Chrysler, etc. largely went forward with enamel-type paints, but all gun-sprayed.  Lacquers hung on for aircraft finishes on fabric, called 'dope', for a lot longer.  Duplicolor was selling lacquers as late as five years ago (Pep Boys, and probably Summit also) that was sold in quarts thinned and 'ready to spray.'  It was perfectly serviceable paint, but with the typical lac disadvantages like requiring many coats, brittleness, some fragility and vulnerability to UV rays.  It is beautiful on a 1/1 car, done right, but has a distinctive look, for sure. Well 'cut and buffed' lac looks miles deep; so cool!

We tend to compare all finishes with the modern acrylic urethanes, either catalyzed or not, or more significantly, clear-coated or not.  Art guys (such as myself) can lecture you about the dual-reflectability of base/clear coat finishes and it's being the motivation for automakers almost exclusive use of such.  As anyone knows, clear-coats are almost as vulnerable to sun damage as lacquers; witness the  big gray patches on old base/clear colors, even factory applied.  Lac has it's own look, but must be well-cared for.  I did my son's '51 Chevy resto-mod in the original color (green poly eg, metallic) as original with PPG Duracryl I sourced in 1993 for that purpose, as it was Dad's old ride we'd discovered 'in the wild' and rescued.  I have about one quart of lacquer for future touch-up, and he'd better take good care of it!  I did a resin 2-dr Styline body for him to mimic it, but clear-coated it because the lacaquer didn't really 'pop' on such a small object.  

The danger of lacquer of any kind is the thinner; it's terribly 'hot' and can work as paint stripper in worst case scenarios.  As noted, the real crux is the substrate; a correct primer-sealer is required, and sanded to at least a 400# smoothness, as lac won't cover flaws or sand-scratches at all -- makes them stand out, if anything.  Polystyrene usually is only a bit resistant to hot solvents, so beware, and test.  I use real 2K primer-sealer, fairly thin to preserve details (except on 'lead sled' type customs) but very judiciously, and then wet-sanded, oc.  Lacquer over old finishes is a krap-shoot, and you usually lose those!

Modern acrylic-urethanes, cleared or not, work well with styrene kits, but the plastic should be sealed.  I no longer trust rat-can materials, and oc have a huge stock of Deltron-like paints that were returns or mis-matched from the PPG shop where I worked, and that's what I rely on.  OC, I test them each, first!  PPF 660 Clear works fine on kits (catalyzed) and literally never yellows, like the old enamel clears.  Other brands also, I suspect.  Judges get testy about thick clear coats, and by the second go-round, it begins to be obvious, if that worries us.  

I painted my first bass in 1965, a Supro 3/4 scale solid body I bought disassembled from the local band, 'The Cool Ones' with rat-can black, and after sanding it down (and then off) three times, gave up and passed (now a collector's item) to another sucker, buying a homely Kay that was reliable, at least.  But that's another tale...

Don't be shy about asking your local auto paint jobber for the mis-mix colors; usually they're less than half price, and often free -- and the colors!!!  Ole' Wick

Site made me change to 'krap' from 'c--p'.  The latter comes from, supposedly, Arcadians playing dice and yelling 'Jean Crapaud' to help the odds.  Sir Thomas Crapper, GB, apparently invented the flush toilet -- but you knew all that!?

Edited May 27 by Wickersham Humble
error

[Wickersham Humble]

There, fixed that! W.

[Muncie]

3 hours ago, Wickersham Humble said:

Nitrocellulose lacquers 'dried up' decades ago, replaced by acrylic lacquers -- which are about gone nowadays!  I've been painting 1/1 cars since the late 'sixties (shadetree only) and car models since the early 'sixties -- and worked my retirement in a PPF paint store.  DuPont introduced the n-c lacs as "Duco" finishes back in the early thirties, as I recall, and it took over at GM; Ford, Chrysler, etc. largely went forward with enamel-type paints, but all gun-sprayed.  Lacquers hung on for aircraft finishes on fabric, called 'dope', for a lot longer.  Duplicolor was selling lacquers as late as five years ago (Pep Boys, and probably Summit also) that was sold in quarts thinned and 'ready to spray.'  It was perfectly serviceable paint, but with the typical lac disadvantages like requiring many coats, brittleness, some fragility and vulnerability to UV rays.  It is beautiful on a 1/1 car, done right, but has a distinctive look, for sure. Well 'cut and buffed' lac looks miles deep; so cool!

 

Thank you for the look behind the curtain at old auto paint shops.  Some I knew, some I suspected, and a lot I didn't know.  I still use some of those old paints on model cars, so it is good to know.

Duplicolor Primer-Sealer number 1699 with enough coats and adequate coverage is a good barrier between lacquer and kit plastic.  It dries thin so it doesn't bury detail and smooth enough that it doesn't need to be sanded before color coast. For me, it's preferable to new automotive sealers because it looks like they are all 2-part or catalyzed - Something that I don't want to mess with,

[DJMar]

3 hours ago, Wickersham Humble said:

I painted my first bass in 1965, a Supro 3/4 scale solid body I bought disassembled from the local band, 'The Cool Ones' with rat-can black, and after sanding it down (and then off) three times, gave up and passed (now a collector's item) to another sucker, buying a homely Kay that was reliable, at least.  But that's another tale...

I know this forum is about model cars and such, but I will stand for no Kay bass slander in my presence, tyvm. 🤣

[Mark]

6 hours ago, DJMar said:

Not to get off topic, but nitrocellulose hasn't been used on production electric instruments in decades. The thick, glossy, tough as nails finishes that you see on modern guitars and basses (especially lower end models) are a catalyzed urethane of some sort, NOT nitrocellulose lacquer. It turned out that nitro lacquer wasn't all that durable on instruments, which is just one of the many reasons it was phased out years ago.

Anyway, Bob and Peter have made some good suggestions above.

But, if you are restoring a vintage guitar that was originally finished with lacquer, it will probably be more desirable if restored with materials as similar to original as possible. 

An unrestored original in good condition would be more desirable.  But if you are starting with an instrument that has already been messed with, then restoration is the way to go unless it belonged to someone famous, in which case you'd leave it the way it was when that person had it and played it regardless of how far it strayed from original.

[Wickersham Humble]

Mark, I think there are still a number of lacquer-type wood finishes on the shelves; Deft comes to mind.  EX to work with on wood, and meant to be waxed for final finish.

DJ, this was over half a century ago, and sorry the thing wasn't exactly Gretsch Country Gentleman level; it had a hilarious scratch plate which I removed (I never used a pick on bass anyway) and though reliable, it was not highly finished, etc.  It had a crazy resonance from the flat face and back panels, which only went away when I stuffed the 'box' with scraps of foam rubber to make it simulate a solid body.  I pushed two scraps of Naugahyde inside the f-holes and laboriously arranged them over the foam stuffing to keep the dark, shadowy effect of the two openings; thought I was pretty smart at age 20!  Model-making leaves one cocky, I guess.  But, that Kay worked me to death; nothing subtle about it's play!

In 1969, I bought a used Hagstrom 3/4, solid body that played like lightning, but had lousy electronics.  It had a unique transparent face plate of lucite where all the pickups and pots lived, and inletted wood behind, which was covered with vinyl upholstery material, in orchid color.  While trying to upgrade the electronics, I replaced the vinyl with more hide-of-Nauga, carefully heated and adhered with contact cement, as original, and painted the plastic face Cal Custon 'Wrinkle Black', like a lot of Harleys were wearing at that time.  Sold it, like the Kay, to a C&W bassist.

 In '71, I got the bass I still use occasionally: a Hofner 'Committee' Model, very Western (Western Germany, maybe?) in style with lots of mother-of-pearl inlays, and birdseye back with very fancy inlaid binding -- and the famous cantilever neck. The head isn't like McCartney's 500-1 violin-body axe, but the neck is very similar (same age, too, c. 1961-62) and it has a large guitar body with one cutaway, and a crystal scratch plate with 'Hofner' embossed on the obverse.  This was broken when I acquired it from an Air Force lifer just back from der Vaterland for $100.00 -- no case, came all the way home wrapped in an Army blanket, thus the damage.  It plays very well, and looks pretty much how the Kay wanted to look, I guess; arched front and back, and bound f-holes, etc.  An Asian knock-off 500-1 we bought my son 20 years ago is not a bad bass, and makes even my 80-year-old digits still workable, so I borrow it on rare occasions when the old band gets together.  I omitted the cantilever neck, though -- without much loss.  OC, I venerate Paul for 'setting the rock bass free' from rhythm roles alone, and into counter-melody.  Loved the experience when we learned almost every Beatle song up to 'Revolver' and 'Rubber Soul' -- had to be more specific after they started going nuts in the studio!

Thanks for dragging up my 'base emotions' and memories, guys!  Wick of 'The humble brothers'  band.

[KWT]

On 5/26/2025 at 9:45 AM, DiscoRover007 said:

Hey guys just wanted to see if anyone has ever tried guitar lacquer on models and got good results? Im curious if its a thicker type of paint?

I found a particular shade of metallic green guitar paint that I'd like to try on a kit of mine and see how it looks.

To kinda answer your question... "guitar lacquer" can be used on your model. It's not "thicker" than anything else really. With the proper prep work, you'll be fine.

 

On 5/27/2025 at 9:51 AM, CapSat 6 said:

A friend of mine painted a fully stripped bass body with Testor's enamel (the reverse of your question) and it looked terrible. Basically it looked like blue metallic painted semi gloss wood.   

 

Not being a douche... that's most likely because it wasn't properly filled and sealed before hand. You can finish a guitar in anything really, must like a model, with the right prep work.

Edited May 31 by KWT

[CapSat 6]

2 hours ago, KWT said:

To kinda answer your question... "guitar lacquer" can be used on your model. It's not "thicker" than anything else really. With the proper prep work, you'll be fine.

 

Not being a douche... that's most likely because it wasn't properly filled and sealed before hand. You can finish a guitar in anything really, must like a model, with the right prep work.

No problem! It was a youthful experiment, done a long time ago. He sold the bass off, too, so maybe it’s been redone by now…

[Wickersham Humble]

Trad automotive lacquer, up until discontinued in the mid-90s by the majors, was shipped 'double-thick' oc, because to spray it it had to be cut 50-50 with lacquer thinner to be a paintable consistency.  Two gallons for the price of one!  Sorta.  Of course, lacquer of any type was meant to be applied in numerous coats, with block-sanding between every third coat, say; until the thickness was built up sufficiently.  Lacquer dries in 10-15 minutes in a proper coat thickness, but the droplets inevitably form an unwanted texture that has to be levelled.  Lacquer also demanded a proper substrate; some kind of primer-sealer, even in the pre-war days.

Then one often applied (tho not mandatory) a half-dozen coats of clear lacquer -- sometimes with colored toner added, for more pop -- that were sanded, but very carefully, as the last go-round had to support the eventual gloss!  We've all read about old skool lacquer jobs being thirty coats, cleared, and 'cut and buffed' to show perfection.  Simply amazing, but time consuming, complex, and expensive!!  No reason a wooden object can't have that process.  Lacquer, it is said, originally came from the Far East, a product of excretions of the 'lac bug', and was used on wood and other craft surfaces: 'Japanese lacquer bowls', etc.

Besides doing our '51 Chevy in PPG lacquer, I keep a quart or so of Dupli-color black around to do quick jobs, like some dash-board parts, or whatever, especially where it doesn't have to have lots of strength v.s chips, ets.  It' dries before I get the gun cleaned!  However, that being said, if it were my bass body, I'd get a good, catalyzed acrylic-urethane black basecoat and proper clear-coat material, and get it done in two steps, about three coats each, and the left-overs will do a lot of model kits.  Bass bodies sometimes take an awful beating -- some saloons are worse than others!

BTW, I've entered a number of kits in IPMS shows, and objectively think that dark and subdued colors just 'disappear' on the display tables; but some kits demand the color, like my recent '61 Lincoln Sports Roadster with POTUS stickers, siren and red lights in the grille (from a Styline kit I bought in high school) that wouldn't look like the "Hyannis Port Hot-Rod" that I intended -- for JFK!  Be patient, I'll eventually finish 'em!

Wick

Edited May 31 by Wickersham Humble
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