Progress or stupidity? You decide...

[Dragline]

Yeah, the bells and whistles. Whistleblowers is more like it. Ford cars getting access to your texts and contacts. Cars ratting you out when you mash the throttle a tad. Maybe a hard brake or two and your Ins Co knows before your brakes cool.

 

Hard pass....

As an aside. I'm NOT against technology. But when it s used for nefarious purposes like it was prophesised. Well, I just cannot abide. My dream car is a 550SEL Benz. 85 or 86 ish. Lots of tech and advanced features on that car. BUT, it won't rat me out of I see a bit of open road and open it up for a mile or two and let the ponies loose. 

Edited July 1 by Dragline

[peteski]

As my last post indicated I'm not a fan of all that technology in cars, but more and more even low-end new cars include all sorts of high-tech stuff in them.  Pretty soon there will be no escape.  Sure, you can get a vintage used car, but maintaining them will get more and more difficult.

Edited July 1 by peteski

[sfhess]

I'd hate to see the cost of replacement headlights for my 2023 Outback.  They move when you steer the car.  It's interesting to see them move back and forth whenever I start the car.

[peteski]

8 hours ago, sfhess said:

I'd hate to see the cost of replacement headlights for my 2023 Outback.  They move when you steer the car.  It's interesting to see them move back and forth whenever I start the car.

Funny! What was old is new again.

Lights which were tied to steering were popular in higher end cars early in the 20th Century, and also in the '60s Citroen DS21 also had that feature.  There were probably others too.  But back then they used mechanical linkages tying them to the steering linkages where I suspect yours are driven by servo motors controlled by one of dozen of on-board computers.

Sounds like they are performing a selftest/calibration when you start the car.

[Brudda]

I just repaired an electric car yesterday and I will not say the brand but the taillamp assembly was just under $4000  . Gotta love new cars. And you wonder why your insurance premium is so high. 

[stavanzer]

On 7/1/2025 at 12:45 PM, peteski said:

As my last post indicated I'm not a fan of all that technology in cars, but more and more even low-end new cars include all sorts of high-tech stuff in them.  Pretty soon there will be no escape.  Sure, you can get a vintage used car, but maintaining them will get more and more difficult.

I agree with you.

I don't know what I'll do when I have to replace my cars.

[Brudda]

I have a friend that works on exotic SUV’s and he just put in a headlamp to a ( I won’t say the brand) British SUV and it was $8000. Come on, this is getting out of control. 

[peteski]

24 minutes ago, Brudda said:

Come on, this is getting out of control. 

Yup, just like many other things around us nowadays.

[Brudda]

Ok I will tell a story but will probably get sued. Oh well I have lawyers on retainers so they will have to earn their pay. I worked at BMW for a few years. In the 60’s and seventy’s they were a great company, I went to their schools and make a long story short I walked out of the last class , went back to the dealer I was working at and quit. It’s all about money with not just bmw but most of the German car companies. VW was totally honest with their smog and gas mileage results. NOT. They just got caught.  Believe me there is more going on than any of you know. Let’s just say I will never buy a new German car. Nuff said. Now the older German cars are probably the best engineered cars ever. I am now looking at a bmw 2002 tii  to purchase. Not the year , the model. 1960-70 for you younger guys. I have owned a 1970 914-6, a 914and several 911’s. Great cars. Stay away from the new stuff.  Now if they came out with a much simpler car, without a lot of the electric junk that’s not needed for a person that knows how to drive. Like looking over your shoulder to see what’s in back of you, it would be so much cheaper. Like thousands of dollars. So a $60,000 car could be half that. 5 years ago I attended a Mercedes school and learned there was 137 computers on the car. Head lamp computers, door window computers, back up computers, side marker mirror computers and the list goes on.  I have to admit that some of progress is great , like my corvette getting 26 mpg at 70 mph with 400 hp and 400 ft.  Lbs . That in 1970 was 7 mpg and altitude adjustment with the carbs. I was on a timed runway and went 145 mph at 4500 rpm with the ac on and the cd player going, my 69 camaro seemed like it was falling apart at 120 and got a great 10 mpg. I know gas was cheaper but so was wages. So some progress is welcomed but when it’s dedicated to total greed is when I draw the line. 

[Ace-Garageguy]

2 hours ago, Brudda said:

Ok I will tell a story but will probably get sued... So some progress is welcomed but when it’s dedicated to total greed is when I draw the line. 

Yup.

I've never had a problem with electronic engine management as a stand-alone system. That and improvements in combustion chamber design and ports and manifolds enabled by CAD and CFD have enabled impressive gains in both efficiency AND performance.

But that's where my interest in and acceptance of onboard "technology" ends, period.

If you're too special to deign to look over your shoulder or use a mirror while reversing, or too weak and inept to adjust your own seat or close your trunk without a dozen processor-driven electric motors for help, or are incapable of maintaining vehicular control without "traction assist" and "active suspension" and ABS, I'd really prefer that you stay home.

I'd rather not be sharing the road with you.

Edited 11 hours ago by Ace-Garageguy
punctiliousness

[stavanzer]

I worked for BMW in the local dealership in the 1990's. I was just a line tech. A couple things I remember. Having to drop the entire one piece exhaust system, from Exhaust Manifold to Tailpipe Tips, the whole welded bit, in order to service something on the engine. A Service Item....Drop the that whole system!

And, hiding the Oil Filter. BMW Engineers appear to take great Joy in finding ever stranger places to hide the oil filter. I would not have been surprised to find the oil filter under the back seat cushion, or in the glove compartment!

My Mentor and I joked that for every new Model of BMW, the design department awarded a "Two Week All Expense Paid Vacation" to the engineer who found the best (worst) place to hide the Oil Filter on the new car. I hated working on them, compared to the reasonable Honda/Acura. 

[Ace-Garageguy]

1 hour ago, stavanzer said:

I worked for BMW in the local dealership in the 1990's. I was just a line tech. A couple things I remember. Having to drop the entire one piece exhaust system, from Exhaust Manifold to Tailpipe Tips, the whole welded bit, in order to service something on the engine. A Service Item....Drop the that whole system!

I hated working on them.... 

Friendamine just had to change the starter on his mid-teens BMW inline-six somethingorother he bought for $1000 (a real visual creampuff of a car) because it had a host of electronic issues that had deemed it an economic total, too expensive by far to be repaired by a dealership, so the owner dumped it for what she could get after pouring mucho dinero down the toilet. After he bought it, he got enough of the electronics back online to get it to pass emissions so it was taggable, and was happy.

Anyway, he's been a Eurocar mechanic longer than I have, and this ridiculous thing listed book time as about 5 hours to do the starter. It took him every bit of it, working on a lift, indoors, with just about every handtool known to man.

Pull the intake manifold to get at the starter on an inline six? REALLY??

One can only surmise the designers had never seen other inline sixes where a starter job takes less than an hour.

EDIT: Apparently the same crew got their little let's-reinvent-every-wheel-we-can-find paws on the "new" Mini design process too.

Way back in the dim recesses of time, I thought the original Mini was a royal PITA to work on, but due to the then-novel transverse engine packaging, and being British, well, it was what it was. Later developments on the transverse FWD theme, like Fiats and Geos and Toyotas and Nissans were easier than the original Mini. Each generation of designs got a little better there for a while, including from a working-on-it standpoint.

But somewhere along the line, everything went to jell.

Late-model Minis? Pure unadulterated nightmares.

 

Edited 11 hours ago by Ace-Garageguy

[stitchdup]

19 minutes ago, Ace-Garageguy said:

Friendamine just had to change the starter on his mid-teens BMW inline-six somethingorother he bought for $1000 (a real visual creampuff of a car) because it had a host of electronic issues that had deemed it an economic total, too expensive by far to be repaired by a dealership, so the owner dumped it for what she could get after pouring mucho dinero down the toilet. After he bought it, he got enough of the electronics back online to get it to pass emissions so it was taggable, and was happy.

Anyway, he's been a Eurocar mechanic longer than I have, and this ridiculous thing listed book time as about 5 hours to do the starter. It took him every bit of it, working on a lift, indoors, with just about every handtool known to man.

Pull the intake manifold to get at the starter on an inline six? REALLY??

One can only surmise the designers had never seen other inline sixes where a starter job takes less than an hour.

EDIT: Apparently the same crew got their little let's-reinvent-every-wheel-we-can-find paws on the "new" Mini design process too.

Way back in the dim recesses of time, I thought the original Mini was a royal PITA to work on, but due to the then-novel transverse engine packaging, and being British, well, it was what it was. Later developments on the transverse FWD theme, like Fiat 128s and Geos and Toyotas, were vastly easier than the original Mini. Each generation of designs got a little better there for a while.

But somewhere along the line, everything went to jell.

Late-model Minis? Pure unadulterated nightmares.

 

the previous oner obviously made the mistake of using the indicators once, that really messes up bmw electrics (or so i'm guessing from the fact i've never seen them used at junctions)

[Ace-Garageguy]

10 minutes ago, stitchdup said:

the previous oner obviously made the mistake of using the indicators once, that really messes up bmw electrics (or so i'm guessing from the fact i've never seen them used at junctions)

You know, I think that may be becoming a trope on the interwebs...that using the turn signals might damage the electrical system...as I'm seeing a lack thereof more and more frequently across every make and model of vehicle.

Kinda like the two-car-lengths between every vehicle in line at a stop light has become almost universal now.

Edited 10 hours ago by Ace-Garageguy

[Brudda]

Ok you know the one about the difference between a bmw owner and a porcupine?………. HA

[Brudda]

Jeremy Clarkston said it perfectly, you need to buy 2 Mercedes. One to drive while the other is in the shop getting fixed. But he does own a new VW GTi but Richard Hammond makes fun of him joking that you bought a car from a company that totally lied to the public . 

[johnyrotten]

I've been watching my boss deal with today's modern mess. What should be a simple windshield replacement has turned into 1500 dollars of headache for the guy, the camera/lane departure junk won't calibrate due to the aftermarket windshield safelight installed, his dash has ALL the Christmas emoji's lit up. An O.E.M one is on order, and he's arguing with safelight. 

[Ace-Garageguy]

2 hours ago, Brudda said:

Ok you know the one about the difference between a bmw owner and a porcupine?………. HA

I was always taught that was Porsche owners, but of course that can't be right, because I is one.  

[Tim W. SoCal]

2 hours ago, Brudda said:

Ok you know the one about the difference between a BMW owner and a porcupine?………. HA

 

37 minutes ago, Ace-Garageguy said:

I was always taught that was Porsche owners 

Here in California it's the Tesla owners as well as the BMW drivers.

[Brudda]

Unfortunately guys this trend of expensive car , trucks and everything else will continue. The classic car market is lower than a few years ago but still out of most of our hands. Like duesenberg lower in price but still millions. I will still to try to buy classic cars even if they are expensive. If they go down in price, so what, drive and enjoy them. But more than likely the market always comes back and they go up, not like a new car where you lose your shirt. Pants etc. there are a few that go up. Rare ones that most of us cannot afford. As I’m looking around, my friends are getting older and have fixed incomes. I’m very lucky , but still worried about the out of control pricing on things. What do we do? And what’s next? 

[Ace-Garageguy]

19 minutes ago, Brudda said:

...As I’m looking around, my friends are getting older and have fixed incomes. I’m very lucky , but still worried about the out of control pricing on things. What do we do? And what’s next? 

Well suh, I'm pretty old and I figure I'm going to be working the rest of my life as things stand now. Looking at developing some income streams that aren't as physically demanding as doing heavy car stuff day in-day out, but out of necessity rather than desire.

Long story short, it looked like I'd be secure in a paid-for place with a nice shop, paint booth, lift, big storage building, etc., where I could end my days in peace tinkering with the cars I've held on to for decades. Zoning was commercial, so if I needed to make some bucks to buy pretties like QC rear ends or 911 carbs by doing machine work or fabrication, I could.

Trusted the wrong person however (a friend of 40 years), and it all evaporated 'round June-July, leaving me with cool cars that all need lotsa work, every hand and machine tool in the known universe and all the skills to use 'em...but now nowhere to work on my stuff.

Yeah. What's next indeed?