Any of you guys seen this before?

[Joe Handley]

My '98 Cherokee started running kinda warm the other night on the way home from the gym and the next morning on the way to work I stopped at a 7-11 and the coolant bottle was gurgling and vibrating a bit violently. Normally it'll run in the 190-200* with the 3 row radiator but is currently running around 210-235* no matter if it's 69* and 10:30 at night or 85* and 1pm. I did add about 1/2 gallon of coolant/water mix between the radiator and overflow bottle (which put it about 1/2 full) and took it for a quick test drive on lunch. It was fine until the about 10 minutes or so in when the needle got into the 210+ range and stayed there until I got back to the store and turned the engine off, then it started puking some coolant out of the overflow bottle as well as having the bottle vibrating a second time. Dad and I weren't sure if it's a major lack of coolant, dieing fans or water pump, or faulty thermostat and I couldn't seem to find any obvious leaks. The fans, water pump, (the plugged) heater core, upper radiator hose, and heater hoses were all factory 131k mile originals while the all brass 3 row radiator (Trans Pro), thermostat (MOPAR Parts), and lower hose (also MOPAR Parts) were installed at 88k. Friday Dad started to take the truck apart and at least swap out the T-Stat and try to flush the radiator, but suggested that I try to get another just in case. I called the radiator shop I bought this one at (for $190 or so) and was told that this one was discontinued and the only choice was a factory replacement aluminum w/ plastic end cap for $115. I also asked if they had ways of cleaning it out if it wasn't leaking and they could do that to (looks to be about $90 or so with tax!) The radiator didn't have a leak but Dad decided to drop it off their and have them clean it out even though he managed to get some pretty decent water flow through it. While Dad was driving me to work he suggested that I call and a friend of mine that works at a local NAPA certified service center that used to be a Chrysler/Jeep/Dodge dealer and give members of my Jeep club discounts to see if they had any water pumps in stock for the it and he'd swap it out while the truck was apart. They had reman's for less than $50 and new for $120 but with my discount the new one would cost around $85, so I had that one put on hold so Dad could pick it up after dropping me off at work. when he took the OEM water pump off it had all but one of the blades corrode off of it, the only time I remember seeing that happening to somebody else on NAXJA.org in late 2003 or sometime during 2004 had the same problem. All of these pics were shot while the parts were sitting in the back of Dad's '90 Laredo this morning.

Here's the new and old pumps together.

The new one alone and the box for it

All that's left is to get the radiator back from the shop and put the truck the rest of the way back together, Dad's thinking it's going to run even cooler now than it did with the just the radiator swap!

[iBorg]

You're kidding me. I've never seen anything like that before. It's amazing that it cooled it down to 210. I'd try to flush out the engine while you're at it. I have to question where the pieces went to. If they broke loose and are somewhere in the water jackets you're still going to have a problem when you're done.

Mike

[BigGary]

You're kidding me. I've never seen anything like that before. It's amazing that it cooled it down to 210. I'd try to flush out the engine while you're at it. I have to question where the pieces went to. If they broke loose and are somewhere in the water jackets you're still going to have a problem when you're done.

Mike

This looks to me like one of 2 things: either there was grit, that is sand or something like it, in the block or radiator, or you have an electrolysis problem caused by 2 unlike metals generating electricity within the system and eating away at the steel parts. You wouldn't think that would happen but if there is enough acid in the coolant, which is usually alkali (I think), then it could set up an electolysis situation.

My personal opinion is that this is the result of some kind of grit in the system circulating around for all these miles, but I'm mostly guessing.

Gary

Fools rush in where angels fear to tread

Edited September 13, 2009 by BigGary

[Joe Handley]

Dad did flush the cooling system yesterday and I'm hoping to get my radiator back from the shop monday, I guess they were going to boil it and roddit out so it's completely cleaned out! Dad thinks the impeller was aluminum and with the rest of the engine being cast iron, electrolisis would explain what happened. I'm wondering if that may have been changed between late '97/early '98 when mine was built and '07 when the replacement was built though.

[lordairgtar]

Your impeller was steel, never aluminum. It just corroded away, it happens. Don't know where MOPAR sourced their water pumps from, but trying to find an old NOS AMC unit would yield a better part, assuming that's the inline six in your Jeep.

[Joe Handley]

What's odd is that we've had 3 other 4.0l Cherokees that ran over 200k that didn't have this problem with any of their water pumps.

[envious8420]

ask your radiator shop about an anode to drop in the radiator. its a soft metal puck that the acid will eat instead of your engine parts. its actually quite common. the anode will help save the block and head from any more damage.

[Guest promodmerc]

And that is why us Explorer/Mountaineer owners call them HEEPS

I replaced the original radiator & water pump a year ago with 210k and the water pump did not look like that.

[Joe Handley]

ask your radiator shop about an anode to drop in the radiator. its a soft metal puck that the acid will eat instead of your engine parts. its actually quite common. the anode will help save the block and head from any more damage.

I'll ask about that, IIRC there was an article in Street Rodder about that 10 years ago and thought about getting a couple for my K-Cars since they used aluminum heads on Nickle-Iron blocks but never got around to trying to find them locally (didn't even have the internet at the time). I may replace the lower hose while it's apart and save the current one as a spare too.

[Dragline]

With 18+ years in the garage I have seen this many times. the impellers actually slowly corrode over time and eventually there is nothing there to move the coolant. It can be a mystery if the WP isn't leaking and all other items seem in good nick. I would't worry overmuch about metal in the passages but a flush is in order clearly.

Usually I just took off the WP and this is what I'd see [referring to your pix].

Easy fix usually and it should run cooler but be careful. I'm not certain what temp the thermostat needs to be, but I'd refer to the factory spec as a starting point. When you use factory setting you must use factory plug heat range as well for maximum HP and milage.

Glad you got it sussed.

I didn't read the other posts so I'm certain you got good advice already.

Bob F

[Joe Handley]

Dad already had a t-stat when he discovered the WP problem and IIRC it's either 195* or 205* on that. The plugs are Bosche Platinums that I put in at 77k and were the ones that were supposed to be for the 4.0l (counter worker handed them to me, so I had no further influence in what he looked up) so they should be the proper heat range.

[Joe Handley]

Dad and I got it back together today and it running the same temps as it did before the pump failed

Edited September 15, 2009 by Joe Handley

[locoengr]

Warped heads? But i suppose that would cause it to leak coolant into the oil? So I'm probably way off. It sucks to go through all this work and $$ and not cure the problem. This is why, years ago, that I stopped laughing at all the cars on the side of the road (from manufactors that I did not like) that were broken down. I finally started thinking, "that could be me someday!" Karma!!

Good luck!!

[Joe Handley]

Warped heads? But i suppose that would cause it to leak coolant into the oil? So I'm probably way off. It sucks to go through all this work and $$ and not cure the problem. This is why, years ago, that I stopped laughing at all the cars on the side of the road (from manufactors that I did not like) that were broken down. I finally started thinking, "that could be me someday!" Karma!!

Good luck!!

Sorry to make it sound like that didn't solve anything, I ment to say that this fixed it and it runs no hotter than it did before the pump came apart!

[Chuck Most]

And that is why us Explorer/Mountaineer owners call them HEEPS

I replaced the original radiator & water pump a year ago with 210k and the water pump did not look like that.

I've never had an Exploder or a Mountaineer (wouldn't mind a 4x4 '01-'04 Explorer Sport, though) but I did have an '84 'Chero that had more breakdowns than Tom Cruise. I'm in no hurry to own another Jeep, unless it's an old J-truck or a CJ. I learned the hard way what JEEP stands for...

Just Empty Every Pocket!!!!

[Joe Handley]

I've never had an Exploder or a Mountaineer (wouldn't mind a 4x4 '01-'04 Explorer Sport, though) but I did have an '84 'Chero that had more breakdowns than Tom Cruise. I'm in no hurry to own another Jeep, unless it's an old J-truck or a CJ. I learned the hard way what JEEP stands for...

Just Empty Every Pocket!!!!

That one probably had a Chevy motor in it