FloridaBoy Posted October 29, 2009 Posted October 29, 2009 I have noticed some traits that model car builders have in general, and somethimes I am guilty of it myself. I tend to think everyone should build what I am interested in, and others are not worth the time, energy and money spent on them. Ever since 58, my interest has been street rods, show and road customs, and in the early years, I thrived because that what was evernone else was doing. Then in 62, along comes Don Emmons and "spoils everything" with his NASCAR Merc Marauder and then other types of cars have been springing up. Then in the seventies street rods and customs down here took a dive, and I still stuck with my first love, street rods and customs. Granted I tried building some funnies with altered bodies, or really nice resto-mod type gassers, but give me a sectioned 40 Ford coupe and my mouth watered. Over the years, I have received construcitive and not so construcitve criticism over my choice and taste, which most I have classified as downright rude. I never go after a NASCAR modeler because he doesn't build street rods, so leave me alone. But I think it is in some modeler's nature to be territorial, and have an agenda which is like going to a strange chuch and the entire congregation gangs up on you, coercing you to believe what they believe. It don't just work that way. Now rods and customs are back, and those big mouths from back then are building military, or playing golf or fishing, and here I am still building what I love. The lesson here is to show respect for others, after all they had the capacity to survive this world, cleanly enough to be able to take time money and energy to build a plastic model car kit. But this on the floor $#%$##$% has to stop, as attendance at model car contests is declining, and people are always interested, but will walk away when two guys are arguing the firing order of a late model flathead motor, or the thickness of spark plug wires, or the quality of a paint job. If you are one of the arguers, you may be right, but in a very few years, you will be alone in a big auditorium listening to your echo. Learn to confine remarks and replies, take the argument to another place and time, and be an ambassador for the hobby. Ken "FloridaBoy" Willaman
Zoom Zoom Posted October 29, 2009 Posted October 29, 2009 As for the ignore function, I haven't used it, for fear that the person who irritates me today, tomorrow will have something useful to say. Nuff said. This will show you what an ignored user's posts look like: As you can see, you can click on either of two visible links inside their hidden post; you don't see the post, you don't see their (sometimes extremely annoying) signatures. It's a feature that is quite useful and every forum should have the option to ignore selected users.
FloridaBoy Posted October 29, 2009 Posted October 29, 2009 "Ken, I love reading your posts because of the vast amounts of wisdom and insight they contain and the way you're able to express yourself so simply, yet eloquently. Want to see a great ambassador for our hobby? Go take a look in the mirror, my friend! " khart, Thanks for the kind words, to both you and many others who have agreed and sympathized with our comments. I always believed that the more information, education (not necessarily school) and life experiences one has, that person has an increased ability to see the bigger picture and maintain composure. Again, guys thanks. As to being an ambassador, I am of a strong belief that one charismatic ambassador is needed in this area to generate interest in the hobby. He has to have skin at least 6" deep, be able to listen without taking too much heart, see a goal and be merciless, selfless, and persevering to see that model cars gets to be a viable pastime it once was. This includes generating interest at IPMS meetings, help form clubs in each major city, assist in contests or even form a contest circuit, be seen at all hobby events, including craft fairs, industry get togethers and car shows. He must be a promoter of his hobby and not himself, (or herself) and still have some time to build some great models to display to show he (she) has credibility, and finally be a leader with a vision, which serves all and not just himself. Frankly, I would love to be that guy, but I don't have the stones, the youth or charisma, or maybe the selfless dedication to pull it off. I yearn for the model car climate in 1994 when in Palm Beach, Broward and Dade County were at its peak with lots of contests, a few really good clubs, dedicated people in the clubs, and those in charge put their egos aside to further the hobby. Honestly this was the "Golden Age" for me, and even more than the sixties and early seventies. Thanks to egomania, gamesmanship, psyching everyone out, personality clashes, false judgements, gossip, a once thriving hobby has turned us modelers into "Lone Wolves", and we thoroughly check out contests now before entering them to assure legitimacy of judging. Right now, I am not entering in any contest in this State, planning my return to competition in Spring 2010 in Georgia and Alabama. I would rather lose a contest legitimately than win one illegitimately any day of the week. There are pretenders to the throne, Augie died way too early, Bob Kuronow is too busy with Model Car Garage, one guy from Ft Lauderdale committed suicide, and I am not charismatic or have the health, strength, or sense of leadership to do anything except bitch, bitch, bitch. Other possible candidates show promise, but Mike Alvarez has the legitimacy and the track record, but he is spread too thin right now, and perhaps with some convincing on my part, he can become the Model Car Czar down here. Everyone would win, hobby shops, clubs, cammaderie, teamwork, goals, and business for everyone. Ken "FloridaBoy" Willaman
beefheart22 Posted October 29, 2009 Posted October 29, 2009 (edited) But this on the floor $#%$##$% has to stop, as attendance at model car contests is declining, and people are always interested, but will walk away when two guys are arguing the firing order of a late model flathead motor, or the thickness of spark plug wires, or the quality of a paint job. If you are one of the arguers, you may be right, but in a very few years, you will be alone in a big auditorium listening to your echo. Learn to confine remarks and replies, take the argument to another place and time, and be an ambassador for the hobby. That kind of rings a bell. I remember as a teen there was a model car show at the local flea market and I went because it was a budding interest at the time. I tried a couple booths just to ask advise because I wanted to know how their models look so good. Most wouldn't look at me sideways and those who did were unhelpful and right down rude and belittling. Even the guy who sold kits and supplies ripped me a new one because I asked for some advise on how to do a decent paint job. His answer was, "If you don't know how to build the kit, then maybe you shouldn't waste your time." Wow. Lost interest right then and there. Not so much because I took what he said to heart, but because I felt that model cars were for cranky old farts with nothing better to do. Rekindled the interest in building because I remembered how much fun it was before some cranky geezers dumped on me. Helps to know there is a particular message board full of great advise in a supportive atmosphere is out there. There was a model show here in Toronto about a month ago. Passed it up. Edited October 29, 2009 by beefheart22
buba39 Posted October 29, 2009 Posted October 29, 2009 i got to say i feel the same way i have been on difernt nameless pages and some act as if they are better and wont help a new builder out or share tips i was told if you dont know ask
jbwelda Posted October 30, 2009 Posted October 30, 2009 i cant even hardly recognize the situations described by the past two posters, buba39 or especially beefheart! i dont mean those things didnt occur, i just cant compare them to the experiences ive had since i re-started building in early 90s. seems to me everyone i meet who is into model cars is very open, very friendly, and certainly very forthcoming with constructive comments and criticisms followed by easy ways to improve what they see. hardly ever have i come across someone who isnt open with that. i cant hardly believe someone actually INVOLVED in a contest or whatever would suggest you find another hobby! it just seems so foreign to me. maybe its california vs the rest of the country or something?
Modelmartin Posted October 30, 2009 Posted October 30, 2009 Maybe it's California vs the rest of the country or something? I don't think so. We have 2 clubs here in Mpls/St. Paul and while there is a little bit of rivalry between clubs because of different personalities and interests, most model builders can find a home in one or both of them and be very welcome there! We have one NNL put on by both clubs every year and it is very welcoming to all non-club members. I think the situation that Floridaboy describes is the exception rather than the rule. Just about everywhere I have gone in the country I have found model car builders to be very friendly, welcoming, and open - including California!
Chuck Most Posted October 30, 2009 Posted October 30, 2009 I don't think so. We have 2 clubs here in Mpls/St. Paul and while there is a little bit of rivalry between clubs because of different personalities and interests, most model builders can find a home in one or both of them and be very welcome there! We have one NNL put on by both clubs every year and it is very welcoming to all non-club members. I think the situation that Floridaboy describes is the exception rather than the rule. Just about everywhere I have gone in the country I have found model car builders to be very friendly, welcoming, and open - including California! This is what I've found myself, It seems that for the most part, the model car guys are a pretty good bunch of guys to spend an afternoon with. It's the 1:1 guys you have to watch out for! Granted, it's true our hobby has more than it's fair share of d-bags, but a model car show is usually a less stressful place to be than a 1:1 car show, by a loooooooooong shot!
Nick Winter Posted October 30, 2009 Posted October 30, 2009 This will show you what an ignored user's posts look like: As you can see, you can click on either of two visible links inside their hidden post; you don't see the post, you don't see their (sometimes extremely annoying) signatures. It's a feature that is quite useful and every forum should have the option to ignore selected users. That isn't cool, and I don't appreciate it.
Ryan Quantz Posted October 30, 2009 Posted October 30, 2009 Even us young guys have advice to share. I cannot tell you how many times I've given advice over the internet only to have guys twice my age speachless because I am half their age. We help each other, give each other advice. Otherwise this hobby will just die. Great societies never made it anywhere by quarrelling and fighting amongst each other. If someone feels the need to complain and argue about everything and take everything to heart- grow some thicker skin, and get out of the hobby. Because you're ruining it for yourself and you're definitely ruining the fun for everyone else. Some great posts in this thread guys!
Guest arni Posted October 31, 2009 Posted October 31, 2009 What a brilliant thread!! Get peeps ranting about something... Off now to to build something LOL
Modelmartin Posted October 31, 2009 Posted October 31, 2009 That isn't cool, and I don't appreciate it. You can add him to your "ignore users" list yourself. Actually, I would just let it slide. He was making fun of you and you did walk right into it. Shake it off and dive back in.
FloridaBoy Posted October 31, 2009 Posted October 31, 2009 Guys, I am trying to input as much as I can, because the problem has persisted for quite some time down here in South Florida, and if it doesn't get nipped in the bud, it will get so bad that plastics will be the exception and pot metal display cars will be what defines the hobby here. Down here, in effect, there are no Floridians per se, we are all from somewhere else, and do not share any congruity of culture like more stable communities north of us. So, we suspect, judge, before we think, and expect everyone to think like we do, and guy from Iowa has a different set of upbrought beliefs than a guy from California. Plus the basic personality differences like type a's vs type b's, organized vs disorganized, people who live for tomorrow vs people who live for the past, and the list of basic differences goes on and on. This is compounded by living in a crowded area in which several people feel like cattle on a drive. So, to stand out, they criticize others to elevate themselves, or further their personal agenda to get a following to play leader, and so on. Then now, thanks to a very difficult economical situation which has proven hard on people, plus us seeing good work and jobs get farmed overseas while we are collecitng unemployment, we are definitiely and understandably more irritable, and as humans we tend to take it out on people close to us. Florida is volatile, as people constantly move here and away from here all of the time. Even me, I have lived down here since 55, but have moved out of town 3 times only to return because I missed the place. Over the years, I have been affiliated with many model car organizations, all of which self destructed over ego wars, dissension, disagreement, personality clashes, and other reasons which a true feeling of cammaderie would have resolved. I have seen other clubs in other cities outside the state, and there is a continuity and that clash is minimal compared to down here. I have been a member of no less than 5 clubs over the years, including holding officer's positions, and my sole agenda is "How we can get along" but have been outlasted or overwhelmed by the conglomerate anger. One time I was President of IPMS Chapter in Ft Lauderdale and brought it up, and was shot down by Mr. Anger and Resentment, then criticizing me "because I had too many red cars". That weakened the chapter and it was involuntarity merged with the Hollywood chapter which was insulting as a smaller chapter took in a larger one. Then there is the leadership. A past president of a model car club during a contest and a self appointed judge was "walking the tables' and pointed out a particular car and lambasted it loudly, right in front of the owner/builder. Imagine my outrage and from that point, I made a conscious decision to display only and never compete down here again. Granted the guy was a narcisstic sociopath, but his poison is now spread to his new locale in the middle of the state. But his legacy is continued in his groupies he left behind, and visits to refresh the agenda. Sad sad state. This is a guy who wanted to airbrush his car on my formal dining table to show off without considering the sacrifice and cost of the dream home I finally achieved. He was banned for life after that......not making a big deal, he just didn't get invited. The point is that open conflictive confrontation most of the time when done in front of others is destructive to the hobby, and harrypri is right on target. If we let the testosterone fly and start flame wars it is destructive and one should think of that before letting loose the invective to another, and if he realizes it, and has the ego to vent anyway, maybe he doesn't belong in the hobby. I know this is a problem, because every article about the Salt Lake contest or the NNL talks about the close cammaderie, and to bring up something as if it were special when it should be a given, means to me, that the ambassadors of the hobby who travel around see that this problem is a lot larger than we all think. Last, but certainly not least to Ryan. I am quite older than many out there, and still listen to advice or even positive critiques by younger, first because most everyone else is younger, and second, I reemember my youth when I was innovate and creative. I like to think I am still creative, but not innovative, so I open my heart and mind as much as I can. I am always eager to learn. I am sorry to ruffle the feathers here. Even describing the situation down here can be considered destrucitve, but I would like people to evaluate themselves inwardly more down here. Florida is not like anywhere else, we are a population of mongrels, and although we may bring our upbringing and culture to the table, we have to be mature to accept differences of others. Even I am adjusting on a daily basis. Ken "FloridaBoy" Willaman
beefheart22 Posted October 31, 2009 Posted October 31, 2009 (edited) i cant even hardly recognize the situations described by the past two posters, buba39 or especially beefheart! i dont mean those things didnt occur, i just cant compare them to the experiences ive had since i re-started building in early 90s. seems to me everyone i meet who is into model cars is very open, very friendly, and certainly very forthcoming with constructive comments and criticisms followed by easy ways to improve what they see. hardly ever have i come across someone who isnt open with that. i cant hardly believe someone actually INVOLVED in a contest or whatever would suggest you find another hobby! it just seems so foreign to me. maybe its california vs the rest of the country or something? After re-reading my last post, it is pretty negative! What Ken was saying did resonate with the mentioned experience, but I did forget that it is unfair to paint all those events and the good people who attend them with the same brush. Pretty sure my experience was isolated. It just discouraged me at a young age. You know how teenagers are -- one thing is lame, all the rest has to be lame. A poster recently PMed me on this subject too and maybe next year I should give the Toronto show a try now that I know there's probably more good folks than bad! Edited October 31, 2009 by beefheart22
Aaronw Posted October 31, 2009 Posted October 31, 2009 Even us young guys have advice to share. I cannot tell you how many times I've given advice over the internet only to have guys twice my age speachless because I am half their age. We help each other, give each other advice. Otherwise this hobby will just die. Great societies never made it anywhere by quarrelling and fighting amongst each other. If someone feels the need to complain and argue about everything and take everything to heart- grow some thicker skin, and get out of the hobby. Because you're ruining it for yourself and you're definitely ruining the fun for everyone else. Some great posts in this thread guys! I found out pretty quickly age doesn't really mean much when it comes to this hobby. A lot of it has to do with connections (having people to ask), actually listening to what they tell you, some innate skill (some people just pick stuff up faster) and most importantly trying out something new. Many of the things we do is not that hard, but many people just assume they can't do it. I thought scratch building stuff sounded like the most boring tedious thing I could think of, turns out its fun and I look for opportunities to add a little something extra. I have seen quite a few models in the Jr class that are as good or in many cases much better than anything I can do. I'm a better builder at 42 than I was at 15, not so much because I've been doing this longer, it is really because I have become more patient and the internet gives me a whole lot more exposure to people to ask about stuff. Of course having a decent job helps too, it is amazing how much easier it is to do things when you have the right tools.
FloridaBoy Posted October 31, 2009 Posted October 31, 2009 I am not saying that every model car contest, event, or club, or even hobby shop for that matter, is comprised of nothing but fighting idiots, but it is human nature to retain the negative stuff much more than the positive memories when you look for an impression of the event. If you go to a model car contest and someone asks about it later, and if there is an incident or two, you mention those because they are more unexpected and unusual and sit stronger on the impression, regardless of the friends, tips, education, impression of the work, being terrific. That is just because we were human. I have attended some contests in which bickering was kept to a minimum, or very private and/or civilized and had a great time... Over the years I have made great lifetime friends in model cars, and even model railroading, as well. But the problems I describe are not restricted only to model cars, I have seen this phenomenon occur in tennis and softball leagues, basketball leagues, jobs that I have had, social and church groups I belonged to, service organizations, and even government boards and councils. People just can't get along, and compounded they are not equipped for the most part to resolve conflicts, so we harbor resentment and carry grudges. When my health resumes, I am planning to host an early summertime model car contest myself, and recruit help and sponsors with the intent to show that people can get along, and my contribution will be first to bring people together, second, to eject or disqualify anyone who starts up the #$#@$#@$, and throw a high standard fairly judged contest. A guy named Mark in my club did one a few years ago on his own, and he rocked!!!! I will be contacting Mark and a few other guys to start right after Christmas. I will confess I have only a sand pebble of influence but I know a lot of people and I have a decent venue to host the contest with tables, and all needed is some sponsorship money for expenses and awards. If I can get some help, I will even accept mail in model cars from my beloved forum members here, and do my best to protect them both while shown and on the way back home. I an couple of weeks, I will be displaying on my fotki.com the judging sheets for my judges to utilize, as each is based on the IPMS 100 point system, but each category will have its own criteria and weigthing. After all, I have been bitching enough, maybe it is time I put my money where my big mouth is. If there is anyone in the Palm Beach/Broward area who can help me out here, feel free to contact me. Ken "FloridaBoy" Willaman
Harry P. Posted October 31, 2009 Author Posted October 31, 2009 But the problems I describe are not restricted only to model cars, I have seen this phenomenon occur in tennis and softball leagues, basketball leagues, jobs that I have had, social and church groups I belonged to, service organizations, and even government boards and councils. People just can't get along, and compounded they are not equipped for the most part to resolve conflicts, so we harbor resentment and carry grudges. It's in our DNA... human beings are basically petty, vindictive and territorial. That's why we're constantly fighting wars. Whoa... what a downer of a statement! Sad, but true. The few that can rise above are by far the very tiny minority.
george 53 Posted October 31, 2009 Posted October 31, 2009 No we're not,Harry, we just rise ABOVE the petty B/S and carry on!!!!! Life IS GOOD if you just LET it be!
Harry P. Posted October 31, 2009 Author Posted October 31, 2009 Life IS GOOD if you just LET it be! Tell that to the average Joe in Iraq... or Afghanistan... or Darfur... or North Korea... or about a dozen or more dictatorships in Africa... or... well, you get the picture. Life is good for some people, life really sucks for way too many more, and mostly, through no fault of their own.
Zoom Zoom Posted October 31, 2009 Posted October 31, 2009 Tell that to the average Joe in Iraq... or Afghanistan... or Darfur... or North Korea... or about a dozen or more dictatorships in Africa... or... well, you get the picture. Life is good for some people, life really sucks for way too many more, and mostly, through no fault of their own. Okay Debbie Downer , let's see if we can steer away from the "political opinion" & "hot button topic having nothing to do whatsoever with model cars" derailment soapbox we say we don't want on this forum...
george 53 Posted October 31, 2009 Posted October 31, 2009 Harry, I really don't think what is goin on in those places could be considered petty! Your right though, it IS true, thru no fault of their own. I was just refering to the way things are HERE. Folks seem ta get TOO worked up over simple stuff, like what should or shouldn't be posted on certain forums. To ME, that's petty, but like they say, "To each,his own"
Harry P. Posted October 31, 2009 Author Posted October 31, 2009 Okay Debbie Downer , let's see if we can steer away from the "political opinion" & "hot button topic having nothing to do whatsoever with model cars" derailment soapbox we say we don't want on this forum... Sorry, chief! Back to models...
Jairus Posted October 31, 2009 Posted October 31, 2009 Soooo, I gotta ask, if I am sitting here blogging in a tutu and high heels... is that considered inappropriate forum behavior?
FloridaBoy Posted October 31, 2009 Posted October 31, 2009 Harry, I read on another topic you build Pocher models. I used to think of mysefl as a top echelon type builder, not a champion anymore, but I am not afraid to tackle any model out there, and make it OK, then I even built one of those horrible ol Palmer/Lindberg Cords, and thought I was top of the heap. But no............. Over the past few years, I have come into owning about 4 Pocher models, and said "no problem" especially what I see people paying for the built models down here.....in the thousands. I saw nothing but dollar signs and even my wife took our bill-paying desk in our bedroom and reserved it for the build, so I could be nearby when she watched TV and we could have together-quality time while I was making thousands of dollars................... uh-huh. When I opened up the box, tears started to run down my cheek, I showed the model and its million little screws and washers, and tears came down here cheek, I put them on ebay and sold them. I likened it to me asking out Miss Universe, way out of my league... My hat is off to you, Harry, and those dedicated modelers out there who have or are building a Pocher kit. Ken "FloridaBoy" Willaman
Exotics_Builder Posted October 31, 2009 Posted October 31, 2009 Soooo, I gotta ask, if I am sitting here blogging in a tutu and high heels... is that considered inappropriate forum behavior? No Webcam PLEASE!
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