Restore or "Restify?"

[Harry P.]

Skip's post on the vintage Charger that's been "restified" into a modern street machine got me thinking. What do you guys say? Is it better, more appropriate, however you want to phrase it, to take a vintage car and restore it to "as new" condition or to modify it with modern mechanicals, modern drivetrain, custom interiors and wheels, etc.? Particularly a car that can be considered collectible. (I'm not talking about grandma's old Matador sedan, I'm talking more about cars like 'cudas, Challengers, Chevelles, etc.).

After all... there are only so many old cars still left, and they ain't makin' any more of 'em!

So... is it better to restore? Or to restify? Let the great debate begin!

[JamesW]

I would restore in MOST cases. As you said, there's only so many left and they're not makin any more. HOWEVER, I do believe that if it's your car, do what you want with it.

Edited March 14, 2010 by grimreaper

[Nick Winter]

Skip's post on the vintage Charger that's been "restified" into a modern street machine got me thinking. What do you guys say? Is it better, more appropriate, however you want to phrase it, to take a vintage car and restore it to "as new" condition or to modify it with modern mechanicals, modern drivetrain, custom interiors and wheels, etc.? Particularly a car that can be considered collectible. (I'm not talking about grandma's old Matador sedan, I'm talking more about cars like 'cudas, Challengers, Chevelles, etc.).

After all... there are only so many old cars still left, and they ain't makin' any more of 'em!

So... is it better to restore? Or to restify? Let the great debate begin!

Harry TO me Grandma's Matador is collectible. My theory is, people will do what they want, regardless of what other people say.

But please no more 1:1 scale movie and tv car replica's. Allthough one day hopefully soon I'll be heading that route ('74-'78 Firebird Esprit)

[goldfinger]

Well,it raises the question,How many of any perfectly original or restored car do we need. How many factory correct model A's do we need? I think that if a car is a rare version then it makes financial sense to preserve it,along with the historical value of the car itself. On the proverbial other hand,modifying or restifying an older car makes it something useable for years to come. Let's face it,the braking and suspension systems on many older cars left a lot to be desired,especially when compared to what we drive today. So what's better,a perfectly restored original with four drum brakes that you are afraid to drive on the highway or a protouring chevelle with disc brakes and air conditioning that can handle and stop as well or better as a modern car? I don't think either is better,but I dont think we need them all to be one way or the other. If anyone is concerned about a 69 charger being ruined,consider what the tv show Dukes of Hazzard did to the Charger population. I'd rather see them restified,modified,pimped out or donked rather than be cannon fodder for some tv show! Why couldn't those guys have had a Pinto?

[Nick Winter]

Well,it raises the question,How many of any perfectly original or restored car do we need. How many factory correct model A's do we need? I think that if a car is a rare version then it makes financial sense to preserve it,along with the historical value of the car itself. On the proverbial other hand,modifying or restifying an older car makes it something useable for years to come. Let's face it,the braking and suspension systems on many older cars left a lot to be desired,especially when compared to what we drive today. So what's better,a perfectly restored original with four drum brakes that you are afraid to drive on the highway or a protouring chevelle with disc brakes and air conditioning that can handle and stop as well or better as a modern car? I don't think either is better,but I dont think we need them all to be one way or the other. If anyone is concerned about a 69 charger being ruined,consider what the tv show Dukes of Hazzard did to the Charger population. I'd rather see them restified,modified,pimped out or donked rather than be cannon fodder for some tv show! Why couldn't those guys have had a Pinto?

Well if you think about it the popularity of the Dukes Of Hazzard saved more Chargers then they ruined. 309 to be exact, but that wasn't the total number of wrecked Chargers just how many were built.

[Jared Roach]

You know what, I kinda disagree. If the car is almost complete or rare, then yes restore it, if it is just a shell and there's nothing left, then go for it, if it is tastefully done. I have seen some nice old cars, both stock and custom, and some that are completly redone, and look horrible!!!! I think it's nice to see both, and again, if it's got the right look and is very well done, then go for it. Also some people go this route if it would cost more to restore then just customize it.

[diymirage]

like i said in the other post

if you are building a novelty item use a dispensable car

dont go fubaring an icon

thats what hondas are for

[dwc43]

Restore to orignal factory specs, hands down. Worth much more that way especially over say a cloned 318 car to a Hemi car. And any car can be restored, right down to nothing but a shell. All it takes is time and the correct info for the build. With the parts available today, you can restore just about any car in any shape.

And to steal your quote

"After all... there are only so many old cars still left, and they ain't makin' any more of 'em!"

[berr13]

I agree with Dave, above. A restoration that leaves the car the way it was driven and enjoyed, as opposed to how it was delivered from the factory, seems in some ways more honest. I've got a '63 Falcon Sprint in the garage, unrestored and for that matter not running, and when and if I get around to it I plan to do a "period" restoration. I'll keep what I've already added to it, supplement it with stuff I would have added it I'd had the bucks, and then drive the heck out of it. What does get my teeth grinding is seeing a car restored, then (to my mind) junked up with every accessory known to that year and make of car. For example, a car from the 40s with a sun visor, fog lamps, bumper guards, spotlights, outside mirrors on both sides of the car, and every other accessory J.C. Whitney ever made. There is such a thing as over restoration, if you ask me.

[Harry P.]

There is such a thing as over restoration, if you ask me.

Interesting that you mention that.

Yes, "over restoration" is fairly common, especially with certain MOPARS. There are many examples of restored 'cudas, Challengers, Chargers, Road Runners, etc., that are way better than they actually would have been straight off the assembly line. During the muscle car era, Chrysler in particular had a reputation for pretty crappy workmanship... and some of the restored MOPARS you see at Mecum and Barrett-Jackson look way better then they did when they rolled off the line back in the day!

[Nick Winter]

Eelco, there are Honda's as well as many more Japanese makes that are worthy of nice restorations too.

i don't agree with Nick's statement either that the Dukes of Hazzard saved more Chargers than it destroyed. there is good chance that during production that alot of desireable cars were destroyed all just for "entertainment" purposes. how many R/T's and R/T S/E's met thier end as General Lee's? they didn't look for junk, they went after good solid cars to bash. alot were 318 or 383 cars, but i'm sure they killed alot of stuff that should have been treated better.

Dave

Dave don't agree with me one way or another I really don't care, I stated my opinion, And most of the times after the cars were used they would be stripped down to nothing and the remainer crushed.

[Harry P.]

should i restore my '71 Dart Swinger to factory specs? it was a lame slant 6/automatic...

Dave

Ouch!

My first car was a '67 Belvedere with that same "lame" slant 6 and automatic. I got it when it was 10 years old and had 100,000 miles on the clock, and that car never let me down, rain or shine, summer or winter. I'll always remember the Chrysler 225 six with a smile on my face...

[dwc43]

should i restore my '71 Dart Swinger to factory specs? it was a lame slant 6/automatic in light blue metallic with a dark blue interior. now it's a fun street car with a v-8 swap and modified drivetrain. it probably didn't stop that well even when new with it's puny manual drum brakes either, but now with '74 front discs and bigger rear drums it stops pretty good.

should i restore my '49 Plymouth coupe to factory specs and rid it of it's Mustang front suspension with 11" disc brakes and ladder bar suspended 8.8 rear axle, Chevy small-block and turbo350 transmission? it would be worth so much more "stock" and so much more enjoyable to drive wouldn't it.

will my '64 Pontiac that's currently unrestored, but in good original condition be worth more restored back to factory specs or built as a nice street machine or drag car? i don't buy into that mindset, sorry. the car in my opinion will be far more valuable and enjoyable to drive in modified condition.

Dave

The Dart, yes. There's a big following for the slant six cars and they are not lame by fare. One of the best corporate engines ever built. Dang near indestructible.

As for the 49, HECK yes. I already stripped on POS that had a nova subframe under it with a chevy engine. Should have seen the look on the idiots face when I told him what I was going to do. Now it's worth 20 times more than it was with it's crappy little 350 and subframe under it.

As for the Pontiac, I don't know exactly what it is, but yes it will be worth more restored, period whether you feel that way or not. Feelings don't really have anything to do with it. As a drag car, it's pretty much worthless. You can find drag cars all day on craigs and e bay and other places that have had tens or thousands of dollars put in them and then they sell for 5,6 maybe 10 grand when your lucky. No race car is worth what you put in it ever. Same way with dirt mods that race with 50 to 75,000 dollar engines. I've seen more than one sell for 3000 and all you needed to do was add your engine and trans. Do you know that the qucik change rear is 1500 for those car alone when new, then add the cost of the belts and seats and some other small parts and your are way over the other 1500. See, you never get your money out of a race car. NEVER. So yes, it's better off restored, it will actually gain worth as the years go on if properly maintained.

[Jared Roach]

anyone remember the Monster Garage episode where Jesse James bought a nice El Camino and cut it up to go figure 8 racing? good example of where it was his money and now his car to do with what he pleased. did he ruin it's value? that's very debatable. that car may very well be worth more now because of what he did to it and it's association with him than it was before he owned it.

Dave

Yea I remeber that, and the face of the guy that sold it to him. I think it was a 454 or ls2 something car I think, I'm not good with chevells, but I know it had a pretty rare engine combo.

Edited March 14, 2010 by bowtiebadboy333

[dwc43]

Exactly Nick! how many desireable R/T's were used, destroyed and stripped and crushed? how is that saving them?

they didn't "save" any Chargers, but they did make those left worth even more by thinning the herd a little

Dave

That's not what he is getting at. Look at how the show brought people together with a common interest and got the cars that are left and restored them. I don't agree with the ones that built replica after replica either. Seen one, seen them all, but even those have an increased value within that group of people, just not what a restored car would bring, but it's easy to change them back. All it would require is a repaint and the correct colors and drive line. If it were not for the show, the replicas might have vary well been left to rot somewhere in the woods instead of on the street as a replica.

[Blake Rogers]

gee thats a tough one harry well to me as a Mopar fan i say restore it but it all depends on the car and if its a matching numbers car. now with plain jane cars like ones that hand a 318 in it as a example aint going to be bringing in the big $$$$ . here is a link you guys might like to see and helpful if your building the cars on here but it shows the price of cars that people are willing to pay for that rare ride.http://www.musclecarfinders.com/default.aspx

i mean this made me choke as i read this on the web site..............

1970 440 Six-Pack Shaker Hood Cuda. This is another project car from a personal collector who is reducing the size of his collection. The car came to us already painted and partially assembled. We determined that the paint job was not quite good enough for such a rare 'Cuda, so we started the process of stripping the paint and fixing any necessary metal work. As soon as the paint work is complete, new photos will be added.

This car is a rare FE5 Rallye Red 'Cuda with matching red interior and black vinyl top. Options include Rallye Dash (A62), Bucket Seats (C55), 3-Speed Automatic Transmission (D32), and Shaker hood (N96). A photo of the fender tag is included with the pictures in the listing. The cowl and radiator support numbers match the VIN on the dash and the fender tag.

The photos tell the story of this solid car. The only part of the body that still needs a little work is around the windshield frame as can be seen in the photos. Some small patches were fixed on the quarters, but the trunk pan and floors look original. The hood is a reproduction Shaker hood. This hood was slightly dinged when transported as can be seen in the complete set of photos.

Parts in the photos are included. These parts include a full seat of recovered seats, new headliner, new carpet kit, original heater box, original tail lights, original door hardware (left/right), rear quarter glass, heater duct, window regulators, and window glass tracks. There is no engine or transmission included with this car. The fender tag is included, but there is no build sheet.

all for the low low price of.........$40,000 but again think about it for a sec how much more are you going to dump on her??? myself i would i mean this is a rare car.

Edited March 14, 2010 by moparfan426

[Railfreak78]

<~~~~~~~~~~~~~~Making popcorn cause this is getting good

[Blake Rogers]

<~~~~~~~~~~~~~~Making popcorn cause this is getting good

can i have some ???

[Railfreak78]

can i have some ???

yeah buddy let me fax it over to ya

[Blake Rogers]

yeah buddy let me fax it over to ya

ok sounds good

[Joe Handley]

I have to agree with Moparfan, if it's a tires but rare and/or numbers matching car, then a restoration would be in order, if it's a survivor......I'd just leave it be, but a well used (up;) ), garden variety, /6 or small block car should really be able to go either way without too many people getting upset though.

As for Dave Zinn's '49 Dodge, I'd rip off the Chevy and Ford junk and look to go all Mopar on it. Maybe Volare or Diplomat Front Suspension (not sure if I'd use the Torsion Bars or Magnum Force's coilover conversion though, ZJ or WJ Grand Cherokee based rear suspension (it's a 4 link solid axle arragement ) then probably use a 5.2/5.9l V8 and 4 speed or late model Hemi/5speed auto out of a truck or LX car if I were going that far.

Edited March 14, 2010 by Joe Handley

[Blake Rogers]

thanks joe i had this talk with so many gear heads and always never had once some one agreed with me

[Joe Handley]

NP Moparfan, kinda get that attitude from my father, we've had some fairly "rare" mopars (and maybe a couple F/S Chevy's vans too ) that were lost do to either rust, old age, and/or wreckage (including a 440 Six Pak/4-speed/Super Trak Pak '70 Charger R/T ) that he really doesn't feel bad when something somewhat common isn't kept in pristeen, as delivered condition.

[Blake Rogers]

NP Moparfan, kinda get that attitude from my father, we've had some fairly "rare" mopars (and maybe a couple F/S Chevy's vans too ) that were lost do to either rust, old age, and/or wreckage (including a 440 Six Pak/4-speed/Super Trak Pak '70 Charger R/T ) that he really doesn't feel bad when something somewhat common isn't kept in pristeen, as delivered condition.

NO WAY JOE!!!!!!!!!! such a nice car

[charlie8575]

I generally prefer to see cars restored to as-close-as-stock as is possible, or nice originals preserved in a manner that befits a car that survived a long time in good shape. The Buick Club's "Archival" class is a good example of what I'm talking about.

When a perfect restoration isn't possible, "close" is better. For example, the proper upholstery isn't available for most Step-Down Hudsons, so people get it as close as they can, or make a mild custom interior

As to mods, as long as it's something that's reversable, or nothing too major, I don't object too loudly. If a car is really clapped out, sometimes a modification is the better route. For example, I saw a '59 Ford a few years ago for sale very inexpensively. The car was a mess, but complete. My thought was to drop a 302/AOD in it, and keep the original engine-transmission, and use it as a daily car with the modern driveline and some small suspension upgrades, but not destroy the character of the car itself.

Over-restoration is silly. I think it's destructive to the car, and to the hobby as it promotes impossible standards and grossly inflates prices.

Charlie Larkin