Harry P. Posted July 17, 2011 Posted July 17, 2011 Somebody please explain to me how we got to almost virtual blows over the scale fidelity of some hood supports. If you ever find the answer, fill me in, willya?
sjordan2 Posted July 17, 2011 Posted July 17, 2011 I guarantee if the Hudson kit had been introduced 10-15 years ago, modelers would have been petitioning the Vatican to grant sainthood to Dave Metzner rather than engaging in meaningless debates over the relative thickness of the kit's hood supports. Amen.
charlie8575 Posted July 17, 2011 Posted July 17, 2011 I guarantee if the Hudson kit had been introduced 10-15 years ago, modelers would have been petitioning the Vatican to grant sainthood to Dave Metzner rather than engaging in meaningless debates over the relative thickness of the kit's hood supports. Your message is received and point is well-taken. All I can see is this....a well-engineered, well-thought-out product. Moebius has done everything, possible, and let's be honest- that's not too much of a stretch- to give us the model we wanted. Yes, those who called some of the mistakes deserve credit for helping make what was already going to be good even better. Thank you, Dave. And thank you, Dave and Art, for shepparding this project in the manner you have. I think this will be a watershed moment in this hobby. I also think this will up the ante for any future release, from any company. I'm looking forward to getting one of these. And building it. And thoroughly enjoying doing so. Charlie Larkin
Danno Posted July 17, 2011 Posted July 17, 2011 (edited) I guarantee if the Hudson kit had been introduced 10-15 years ago, modelers would have been petitioning the Vatican to grant sainthood to Dave Metzner rather than engaging in meaningless debates over the relative thickness of the kit's hood supports. AMEN! And regardless of the rantings of self-appointed gods, I'm very much looking forward to getting my hands on all of the Hornet kits I already have on order. As an aside, I'm more than curious to see the absolutely perfect and flawless-while-remaining-unimpeachably-scale-accurate model kit Dave Z could bring to the market for less than $30. Where is it????? Just sayin' . . . Your message is received and point is well-taken. All I can see is this....a well-engineered, well-thought-out product. Moebius has done everything, possible, and let's be honest- that's not too much of a stretch- to give us the model we wanted. Yes, those who called some of the mistakes deserve credit for helping make what was already going to be good even better. Thank you, Dave. And thank you, Dave and Art, for shepparding this project in the manner you have. I think this will be a watershed moment in this hobby. I also think this will up the ante for any future release, from any company. I'm looking forward to getting one of these. And building it. And thoroughly enjoying doing so. Charlie Larkin THANK YOU!! I agree completely!! Edited July 17, 2011 by Danno
Guest Posted July 17, 2011 Posted July 17, 2011 After reading over the last few pages,I don't think I would want to witness the discussion of a kit of a truly interesting car. I just hope Moebius picks better subjects in the future. I wanted the new Lonestar,but after I've seen a couple of buildups,I think I'll pass on it too. The cab and sleeper on both have a very noticable downward rake towards the rear and apparently the hood won't tilt up with the front bumper attached. Looks like Moebius makes the same mistakes as other kit manufacturors. As far as the Hudson goes,I have about as much interest in it as I would in watching paint dry. Wait..I do have some paint drying!!............................................
Darin Bastedo Posted July 18, 2011 Posted July 18, 2011 What I see here is the difference between those who are in the business of making models, and those who build models as a hobby. The simple fact is every single part and each assembly step in a model kit is done for a reason. The Business end need a durable east to build product with mass appeal. The modeler wants things done the way they would do it if they were scratchbuilding it themselves. Think of it this way, many of us assemble out model out of order of the instructions to accomidate features we add or because it fits out building method better, But the manufacturer writes the instructions to make assembly easier for 90% of the buyers. Things like pins that positively locate the axle to the chassis, make it easy for the novice to have a car that sits square with all four wheels on the ground. Every model kit has comprimises, such as engine compartment details molded to the fenders, and front suspension arms molded with the front crossmember in one piece. That is why you see so many Revell 427 Cobras built and so few Fujimi Lamborghini Countach model built. Fujimi went with ultra detailed, hard to build expensive kits, and revell went with easy to build inexpensive but somewhat compromised kits. Would you rather have Fujimi release a Hudson Hornet with 300 individual pieces for $60 or a less complicated Mobius kit for $30?
Harry P. Posted July 18, 2011 Posted July 18, 2011 Would you rather have Fujimi release a Hudson Hornet with 300 individual pieces for $60 or a less complicated Mobius kit for $30? Personally I'd go with A.
jeffs396 Posted July 18, 2011 Posted July 18, 2011 Heck, I'd be cracking open a cold one over a decent Curbside version. X2!!!
Darin Bastedo Posted July 18, 2011 Posted July 18, 2011 Or, to state it a slightly different way, if Moebius was to release a gazillion-piece, Enthusiast Model-esque Hudson kit, it would probably put the company out of business ... just like the McLaren did to Accurate Miniatures ... Exactly!
Chuck Most Posted July 18, 2011 Posted July 18, 2011 Rear axle mounting issue or no, the underside of the Moebius kit looks pretty good to me. The Trumpeter Falcon's piece is far from perfect, but it's a far cry better than the original AMT piece everyone compares it to. Sorry... no way, no how is a one-piece slab with everything molded to it and a hole in the engine block for the front axle going to come close to a full-detail chassis, even if it's less than perfect. Just my opinion. The Hudson kit's underpinnings are a much better representation of the real car, and like Dave says, I can creatively work around the 'generous' rear wheel well issue.
Dave Metzner Posted July 18, 2011 Posted July 18, 2011 For what ever it's worth.......Art Anderson worked on Johnny Lighning die cast product line at Playing Mantis NOT the Polar Lights model kit line. Art did NOT design any Plastic kits... The Dodge Coronet, 1964 GTO and 2004 GTO were all designed by John Mueller, I did the Ford GT... Art Helped review test shots of some of the Polar Lights kits along with a couple other Johnny Lightning guys I was the brand manager for Polar Lights - I was responsible for those kits...NOT Art. By the time we got the 2004 GTO done I think that the quality of the product was really prety good - RC-2 bought us out before the Ford GT was done although I worked for them part time while that project and a few others were finished up. RC-2 killed the New Mustang project we had started and it never got beyond a quotation stage... As for the chassis of the new Hudson you'll have to spend quite a bit of time looking REALLY close at a finished model to see how the rear axle actually attaches to the chassis... Unless you plan on displaying your finished model upside down it seems like a pointless complaint... I have one sitting here that's finished I can't see how the rear axle mounts...And the pins on the headlight lenses are gone for production kits... Dave
Darin Bastedo Posted July 18, 2011 Posted July 18, 2011 I did the Ford GT... Dave You did the Ford GT? That is one of my favorite kits I bought one in each color and even designed a trans kit for it to turn it into the GTX-1 Roadster.
Dave Metzner Posted July 18, 2011 Posted July 18, 2011 First; Let me say that we're very gratified at the response that our Hudson Hornet kit is getting... Second; let me point out that no one has seen a finished production kit yet - Not even me! The Red and Cream car that's on my Smugmug site is a second test shot not even a final test shot - there has been a third test shot since that one and some changes have been made to it for production. For those of you who have been waiting for the last year and a half THANKS for your patience... Final approvals have been given for last few tootling tweaks,Decal sheets done, instruction sheets sent to the printer and as far as I can tell production will be starting shortly! Latest best estimate for shipping is for kits to leave the factory on or about 8/15- that ought to put them on store shelves by mid September... Dave
jjsipes Posted July 18, 2011 Posted July 18, 2011 First; Let me say that we're very gratified at the response that our Hudson Hornet kit is getting... Second; let me point out that no one has seen a finished production kit yet - Not even me! The Red and Cream car that's on my Smugmug site is a second test shot not even a final test shot - there has been a third test shot since that one and some changes have been made to it for production. For those of you who have been waiting for the last year and a half THANKS for your patience... Final approvals have been given for last few tootling tweaks,Decal sheets done, instruction sheets sent to the printer and as far as I can tell production will be starting shortly! Latest best estimate for shipping is for kits to leave the factory on or about 8/15- that ought to put them on store shelves by mid September... Dave Awesome. Thanks for the updates.
Harry P. Posted July 18, 2011 Posted July 18, 2011 Just curious, where is the kit being molded? I'm pretty sure I read that it's being manufactured in China.
Chuck Most Posted July 18, 2011 Posted July 18, 2011 I believe the Lonestar kit is molded in China, I would assume the Hudson and Chrysler will originate from there, as well.
Dave Metzner Posted July 19, 2011 Posted July 19, 2011 (edited) All but one of our kits to date have been molded in the same factory - it's in Guangdong Province just North and a little West from Kowloon.... BTW Revell's current factory over there is within a mile or so of ours and Round 2 runs all of their kit production in the same neighborhood.... No way around it right now.. almost everything sold by US Domestic Kit mfgrs comes from the same one or two square miles of China...I guess that Revell still shoots some really low volume stuff in Illinois but only stuff that is too low in volume to pay for shipping the tools to China.. However anything like car kits would be produced there these days... For those of us who still build styrene airplanes - China is biggest location of factories - Checkoslovakia still has Eduard - Some - not all Tamiya is still done in Japan -Last I knew, they were producing lots of kits in the Phillipines - Airfix has started running production in India! ( the 1/24 scale Mosquito kit is produced in India)I guess it's less expensive than China? Wish it were practical to produce kits here, unfortunately that's just not possible. Truth is that full blown model kit tooling had not been done in the US for several years before the exodus to China-- most of the new tooling was being done in Windsor Canada by two tooling shops within a mile or so of one-another - all US manufacturers were having tooling made there then delivered to their manufacturing facilities - even as late as 1997 or 98....At the time I was at Playing Mantis we made a trip to visit one of those shops -at that time they were doing tooling for Revell /Monogram, Testors, and AMT/Ertl... I wonder if they're even still there... Edited July 19, 2011 by Dave Metzner
Dave Darby Posted July 19, 2011 Posted July 19, 2011 All but one of our kits to date have been molded in the same factory - it's in Guangdong Province just North and a little West from Kowloon.... BTW Revell's current factory over there is within a mile or so of ours and Round 2 runs all of their kit production in the same neighborhood.... No way around it right now.. almost everything sold by US Domestic Kit mfgrs comes from the same one or two square miles of China...I guess that Revell still shoots some really low volume stuff in Illinois but only stuff that is too low in volume to pay for shipping the tools to China.. However anything like car kits would be produced there these days... For those of us who still build styrene airplanes - China is biggest location of factories - Checkoslovakia still has Eduard - Some - not all Tamiya is still done in Japan -Last I knew, they were producing lots of kits in the Phillipines - Airfix has started running production in India! ( the 1/24 scale Mosquito kit is produced in India)I guess it's less expensive than China? Wish it were practical to produce kits here, unfortunately that's just not possible. Truth is that full blown model kit tooling had not been done in the US for several years before the exodus to China-- most of the new tooling was being done in Windsor Canada by two tooling shops within a mile or so of one-another - all US manufacturers were having tooling made there then delivered to their manufacturing facilities - even as late as 1997 or 98....At the time I was at Playing Mantis we made a trip to visit one of those shops -at that time they were doing tooling for Revell /Monogram, Testors, and AMT/Ertl... I wonder if they're even still there... Well for my two cents worth (And I can be a pretty vocal critic - witness the Trumpeter 64 Falcon) I think it looks pretty good. The only kibitz I have is I wish you guys would have gone with a slightly older model year, like the Doc Hudson 52, with the walrus tooth grille and shield shaped taillights. Other than that, I think it's one of the better China kits out there.
Chuck Most Posted July 19, 2011 Posted July 19, 2011 Well, if this kit is a hit (and I'm fully convinced it will be), maybe there will be other model years kitted using the '53 kit as the base. If not, there already are a couple of resin Hudson bodies out there, and I'm sure the aftermarket guys will step in with all sorts of options for this kit once it is out, even if Moebius cannot.
Dave Metzner Posted July 19, 2011 Posted July 19, 2011 (edited) '52 and '53 bodies are virtually the same - only exterior difference is the grille and hood ornament... tail lights and rear window are the same.. 1951 has shield shaped tail lights and different deck lid chrome - different shaped rear window - different chrome trim on body sides - different shaped parking lights - lot less chrome around roof and side windows...We tooled both '52 and '53 grilles and hood ornaments as well as both 1952 and 1953 interiors - as they are significantly different... The Tim Flock car that Model King is releasing will be a 1952 I know of at least one aftermarket body that's in the works right now... and also know that there will be several others - Dave Edited July 19, 2011 by Dave Metzner
Harry P. Posted July 19, 2011 Posted July 19, 2011 If this falls under the heading of "None of my Business" I understand, but I'm curious... Why did Moebius strike a deal with MK to do the Flock version? Why not A: Release the Flock version yourselves as an "alternate" kit, or... B: Include the decals and parts for the Flock version in the kit itself and market it as a 2 'n 1? Is the "guaranteed sales" that MK's order is providing a factor? Again, if this is info that you don't want to address publicly, I totally understand.
Darin Bastedo Posted July 19, 2011 Posted July 19, 2011 If this falls under the heading of "None of my Business" I understand, but I'm curious... Why did Moebius strike a deal with MK to do the Flock version? Why not A: Release the Flock version yourselves as an "alternate" kit, or... B: Include the decals and parts for the Flock version in the kit itself and market it as a 2 'n 1? Is the "guaranteed sales" that MK's order is providing a factor? Again, if this is info that you don't want to address publicly, I totally understand. My guess and this is only a guess...Is that the volume on this version is low, possibly only one run. I would guess that The Model King already has distributership deals in place to handle the low volume where Mobius might have to strike whole new deals.
Longbox55 Posted July 20, 2011 Posted July 20, 2011 All I want to know is this, Who's gonna get the the first one out of the mold???
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