Mr. Norm's 68 Dart

[bobbyj]

ok i will ask him. here are some pics for a color for the dart. I dont know if i want to go with kandy apple red. here is my other option.

over

what do you guys think?

[Scale-Master]

what do you guys think?

Well, I think you should build it for yourself and that includes choosing the color you will be looking at more than anyone else. They are both nice colors.

But if I said paint it red (or blue) and you really wanted tangerine, what color would you paint it?

I really would paint it purpley-blue, and even if someone said paint it yellow, I would still paint it my way...

Gotta be true and live by my signature…

What did you find out about the "running 1/25 scale engine"?

Edited September 21, 2010 by Scale-Master

[Jeff Sauber]

Did you find any info on that "phantom 1/25 scale internal combustion V-8 engine" yet?

Obtaining information on something that amazing must be hard to come by.

I'm certainly eager to learn more about it, so I'll continue to patiently await for the updates.............Thanks, Jeff

PS.... Does anyone know if Fel-Pro sells gasket sets for 1/25 scale chevy SBC's?

What about timing chain sets? Anyone know of timing chains sold in 1/25 scale?

I know, I'll go with a Pete Jackson gear drive....Wait a sec!!...Will old watch gears work instead? How about carburators? Does holley sell 1/25 scale 750 or 850 double pumpers? and what about fuel pumps?....I'm confused now.

Sorry for the questions, but inquiring minds want to know.

Edited September 21, 2010 by Troll hunter

[Jeff Sauber]

All kidding aside, this deal about a 1/25 engine has had me thinking about what a monumental challenge it would be.

Even with the inevitable simplification, just contemplating things like a working carb in that scale boggles the mind. Making something that could meter out fuel with the precision needed...with any kind of scale fidelity...I hate to say "impossible" but I don't see how it would even be possible without the kind of resources thrown at it that no modeler, no matter how good, would have in his workshop. Maybe in a larger scale, but 1/25? I just don't see it.

Just the logistics of a working fuel pump, in scale is a staggering undertaking...but to get it to work in concert with every other aspect of a working scale engine? The tolerances would be nearly impossible. How do you get the compression right...how do you get the valves to seat? It goes on and on. How would a camshaft and lifters work. Added to that, the tiniest variances would stack up to be very big problems. How would you set the timing?

Again, it goes on and on. This one just doesn't seem remotely realistic to me...

How about the tool set needed to work on something that small?....That alone would be a challenge. Sockets, feeler gauges, plasti-gauge,.....etc..!! Yeah right. I'll just run over to the Matco tool truck and get a 1/25 scale tool set....No prob.

[Scale-Master]

Did you find any info on that "phantom 1/25 scale internal combustion V-8 engine" yet?

Obtaining information on something that amazing must be hard to come by.

I'm certainly eager to learn more about it, so I'll continue to patiently await for the updates.............Thanks, Jeff

PS.... Does anyone know if Fel-Pro sells gasket sets for 1/25 scale chevy SBC's?

What about timing chain sets? Anyone know of timing chains sold in 1/25 scale?

I know, I'll go with a Pete Jackson gear drive....Wait a sec!!...Will old watch gears work instead? How about carburators? Does holley sell 1/25 scale 750 or 850 double pumpers? and what about fuel pumps?....I'm confused now.

Sorry for the questions, but inquiring minds want to know.

In all seriousness, I really would like to see what has been described, (running 1/25 scale engine), but am very doubtful it exists.

I know Mark Gustavson has many times discussed the possibilities and hurdles associated with replicating a fully functioning 1/25 scale model automobile. I believe it is a goal of his to try to come as close and accurate as possible to a genuine miniaturized working car.

Since he is the founder of the GSL, and Augie Hiscano was a highly revered and frequent GSL participant, I find it hard to believe if he succeeded in this venture, Mr. Gustavson would not have showcased such an incredible feat bringing the modeling community one step closer to the realization of the dream of a fully functioning 1/25 scale car. After all, is not an operating engine in small scale the most difficult part of such a project?

But please correct me if I am wrong Bobby. Maybe you can pacify Jeff with such proof? Let us know what you find out.

Regarding Clays comment about the scratch-built plastic engine, yes it exists, but alas, it is only a static model like most scale models of engines… It does not run as Bobby described, and I think it was larger than 1/25?

[Harry P.]

All kidding aside, this deal about a 1/25 engine has had me thinking about what a monumental challenge it would be.

Even with the inevitable simplification, just contemplating things like a working carb in that scale boggles the mind. Making something that could meter out fuel with the precision needed...with any kind of scale fidelity...I hate to say "impossible" but I don't see how it would even be possible without the kind of resources thrown at it that no modeler, no matter how good, would have in his workshop. Maybe in a larger scale, but 1/25? I just don't see it.

Just the logistics of a working fuel pump, in scale is a staggering undertaking...but to get it to work in concert with every other aspect of a working scale engine? The tolerances would be nearly impossible. How do you get the compression right...how do you get the valves to seat? It goes on and on. How would a camshaft and lifters work. Added to that, the tiniest variances would stack up to be very big problems. How would you set the timing?

Again, it goes on and on. This one just doesn't seem remotely realistic to me...

A functioning 1/25 scale internal combustion engine is impossible, for all the reasons you mentioned and more. How could tiny connecting rods take the stress without bending or breaking? Full-scale tolerances are in thousandths of an inch. How can anyone get tolerances 25 times smaller than that to hold?

[Scale-Master]

All kidding aside, this deal about a 1/25 engine has had me thinking about what a monumental challenge it would be.

Even with the inevitable simplification, just contemplating things like a working carb in that scale boggles the mind. Making something that could meter out fuel with the precision needed...with any kind of scale fidelity...I hate to say "impossible" but I don't see how it would even be possible without the kind of resources thrown at it that no modeler, no matter how good, would have in his workshop. Maybe in a larger scale, but 1/25? I just don't see it.

Just the logistics of a working fuel pump, in scale is a staggering undertaking...but to get it to work in concert with every other aspect of a working scale engine? The tolerances would be nearly impossible. How do you get the compression right...how do you get the valves to seat? It goes on and on. How would a camshaft and lifters work. Added to that, the tiniest variances would stack up to be very big problems. How would you set the timing?

Again, it goes on and on. This one just doesn't seem remotely realistic to me...

One more point should be offered. You cannot scale atmosphere, it is a constant. Using a 400 C.I. Small Block Chevy as the subject (Largest stock displacement).

It can only be scaled down to 1/5 scale before it is outside the range of functionality due to atmosphere restraints. And even then, many concessions must be made to allow it to run while looking like a true scale small block.

That is not to say an unscale 1/25ish version could not be made, but I don’t think it has been yet…

[Jeff Sauber]

I just called Summit Racing equipment and asked if they carried working starters for 1/25 scale SBC chevrolet v-8's....Wanna take a guess as to what I was told?...

[i was placing a regular order and asked the guy just for kicks to see what he'd say]....He was laughing hysterically.

Edited September 21, 2010 by Troll hunter

[Scale-Master]

I used to have a shrink ray gun, now where did I leave it? I'll show you all how to do it...

Oh wait, it only goes to 1/12.

[Jeff Sauber]

I used to have a shrink ray gun, now where did I leave it? I'll show you all how to do it...

Oh wait, it only goes to 1/12.

LOL...

[Brett Barrow]

I've seen 24/25th models that the pulleys and fan would turn when you spin the rear wheels, giving the illusion of a running engine.

[Gregg]

I think he was referring to the moving engine, not operating engine Augie did.

Also, good friend Charlie Ryder from Texas built a complete, front to back (engine, pistons, trans, driveshaft, rear-end), rotating drivetrain, from plastic and beer cans! (not in that order)

Sorry everyone took over your thread here my friend.

One thing on the hinges.

It is just my personal opinion, but I don't like the brass rod/tube-style of door hinges. They seem so big and out of place. I know they are the easiest ones to do, but they have been done to death.

With your talents and skills, I would like to see some realistic in-scale and operating hinges, just like on the real deals!

Bob and Shiryl make some (Model Car Garage and Detail Master), that work pretty good with some good soldering skills.

Okay, I pau

Build on my friend!!!!

[bobbyj]

talk to Bob K. this morning..... he said that he wouldnt put it past Augie and it would be possible maybe not in 1/25 scale but it is possible to do it in a slightly larger scale. he said that he has seen motors with working fans in 1/25 1/24 scale run on watch batteries. but he is unsure about the SBC.

Bobby

P.S. Bob K. says hello to all!!! I think i am going to go with the tangerine with a cream top and int. scale-master Bob Being almost a mentor in MY modeling world along with my father said that you were a EXTREMELY good craftsman!!! AND that I can and will learn A LOT from you SR. with that being said thank you all for your input on the build so far. and I am sorry if I got everyones hopes and dreams up. however I am glad I could give you a laugh and get your gears turning.

[TurboKitty]

Just my $0.02, but a working 1/25 engine is pretty far fetched for reasons stated above, but they also create a lot of heat. Even if it wasn't made of plastic, the heat would cause havoc on anything internal. Regardless, these miniature working engine sites are pretty neat:

http://weberprecision.com/

http://www.minimodelengines.com/index2.htm

http://jalopnik.com/251109/worlds-smallest-supercharged-v8-engine--now-with-details

and the smallest engine I know of is this 1/12 scale Cirrus V8:

[Scale-Master]

Cool stuff but, IMHO an air cooled low compression airplane engine from the 1920’s being reduced to 1/12 Semi-scale more than ¾ of a century later is a far cry from an accurate Scale running car engine in any scale including 1/12… Heck, I’d be satisfied with a running FE diesel if it looked like a decent replica of a small block Chevy. See, I don’t ask for much…

But it is good to hear you made a decision on what color YOU want to paint YOUR model Bobby.

[bobbyj]

thanks dave. cool video. i think we can build one smaller though. lol I was going to go with all Viper suspension but now I THINK i am going to go with making something and using the new charger srt as a template. esp. since I believe I am going to use atleast the block and do something with the newer hemi maybe twin turbo or something. of coarse id have to order more radiator core for the intercooler. hmmmmm decisions decisions.....

[bobbyj]

ok been a while here are some update pics. rims are almost all done just need to turn some hubs and then plate them.

what do you all think?

[Danno]

Pix are hard to see, but it looks like you turned some nice rims. Waiting for the finished products!

[bobbyj]

yea sorry about the pics. they look better on the scale auto forum. thread is labeled the same on there under street machines/ hot rods and street rods.

[jw78z28]

a long time ago at the cavalcad of customs they used to have a model show, not sure what year it was but there was a dirt track model there that had a cut up small block that had moving parts. the belts turned valves moved up and down. i want to say more stuff was working on it but i just cant remember. its been many years ago.

your dart looks good

[bobbyj]

ok guys sorry its been a while here are some pics as to whats been going on. got 1 turbo made, engine compartment about done have to move firewall back though, rad and elect. fan done, and the heads were modified to be wider like the 6.1L hemi instead of the 5.7L.

all thoughts and suggestions welcome. thank you for looking. and thank you for your input.

Bobbyj

[mikeD1]

hey bobby!!!

did you make your own rims??

can you make baby moons??

looks killer!!

[bobbyj]

hey bobby!!!

did you make your own rims??

can you make baby moons??

looks killer!!

yea baby moons are the easiest to make they are almost flat. i know that pegassas makes aluminum rims for there tires and so does MAS, but it is cheaper for me to make my own AND i can chrome plate them so they are chrome and not polished aluminum. or i could platinum plate them. hmmmmm