When is a Chrysler; not?

[Jon Cole]

I just watched a Mopar/SEMA video, where the Mopar rep was showing a FIAT 500 edition. I understand that Chrysler and FIAT are partnered now, but I guess I was assuming that the 500 would be re-badged as a Mopar brand. The video shows the 500 still wearing a FIAT badge on the nose. What's up with that? Will they keep the FIAT name alive here in the North American market?

[mrmike]

From what I have read in Autoweek magazine, the Fiat 500 will most likely carry the Chrysler name tag, but there has been no definite answer given yet. IMHO, Fiat will have their work cut out for them as many people still think of the Fiat brand negatively from poor service to hard to get parts. And, I'm sure many will see beyond the Chrysler name tag and still see a Fiat brand car.

[moparmagiclives]

Most of you are correct in a way. Fiat is using this a way to import they're brand into the states. And only a hand full of Chrysler dealerships will have a "Fiat" franchise. Which is nice because thats one less thing I have to learn to work on. But just as the partnership was with Diamler and mitsubishi, the new cars will share alot of parts, body styles and technology. Thats just part of the game I guess. Thats one reason the Dodge Ram is now the "Ram" 1500, 2500 and so on. Fiat has trucks of all sizes, now they can offer a truck from a mid sized Dakota to an over the road 18 wheeler, all from the same brand. But what I've been told so far from the powers that be, is that they have some very interesting ways of doing things that will jump our current outputs by about 15 to 20% with power and economy. This should be fun.

[sjordan2]

The cost of opening a Fiat dealership reminds me of a situation here in Knoxville. To open a Mini dealership, BMW required a heavy franchise investment and a free-standing building constructed to their specifications. As a result, Knoxville did not have a Mini dealer until this summer, and owners had to drive to Nashville or Atlanta to have warranty work performed. We probably still wouldn't have a Mini dealership if the BMW dealer hadn't lost some GM brands.

Edited October 28, 2010 by sjordan2

[moparmagiclives]

Thats one reason the Dodge Ram is now the "Ram" 1500, 2500 and so on.

Like I said, one of the reasons. Thats just what I've been told from the suits. I know there is alot more to it than sell off also, like marketing and target selling. The Dodge brand is now suposed to be the "gen x" brand for the younger family buyers and the "Chrysler" is going to be the elite brand (I.E. older buyers) think Cadillac...hopefully.. And the trucks were going to be the work horse under its own name. And to be honest, the jeep brand was worn out 5 years befor the merger. look at the commander and patriot.. . And yes, I do worry for the future of Chrysler, been here a long time.

[Darin Bastedo]

Like I said, one of the reasons. Thats just what I've been told from the suits. I know there is alot more to it than sell off also, like marketing and target selling. The Dodge brand is now suposed to be the "gen x" brand for the younger family buyers and the "Chrysler" is going to be the elite brand (I.E. older buyers) think Cadillac...hopefully.. And the trucks were going to be the work horse under its own name. And to be honest, the jeep brand was worn out 5 years befor the merger. look at the commander and patriot.. . And yes, I do worry for the future of Chrysler, been here a long time.

What's wrong with the Patriot? I look one every day in my driveway. It has a 175 hp variable valve 2.4 liter 4 cylinder, all wheel drive, traction control, CVT, Stability control, ABS, and gets 35mpg on the highway at an average speed of 75mph. All this for $17,500. since march of 2008 I've put 65,000 miles on it, in all types of wether on paved roads and not, and it has been trouble free.

[charlie8575]

The Patriot is something my dad and I have both given really serious consideration too.

The 500 is a cute little car, but I don't think I could justify it, and if I can reasonably expect somewhere in the 30 or so mile-a-gallon range with a car with far more utility, why not?

Charlie Larkin

[Jon Cole]

Not going to be a Chrysler. Fiats will be sold as Fiats in "boutique" showrooms. Obviously there will be Fiat/Chrysler cars badged as Chryslers in the future, but not the 500. Read more at the link. It's old...doing a Google search will turn up plenty more stories for those inclined to read about the Fiat franchises for Chrysler dealers...

Fiat Franchises.

If they are going with this "boutique" showroom & dealer idea, then... I guess we won't be seeing too many of them around here. Maybe one of the Boston 'burbs will have a dealer. The 500GT actually looks cool!

[Harry P.]

so, if i read this right, the trucks will no longer be badged as "Dodge" anymore?

I think that's already the case.

[Harry P.]

From wikipedia:

The Ram brand was created following Chrysler's alliance with Italian automaker Fiat, and future plans have Dodge switching to an exclusively car-based lineup in the near future with all pickup and future heavy-duty trucks by Chrysler being sold under the Ram brand, planned to start in the 2010 calendar year, along with a possible future replacement for the Sprinter derived from the Iveco Daily, by Fiat. The goal is to increase truck sales "from today's 280,000 to 415,000 by 2014".^[3]

[moparmagiclives]

What's wrong with the Patriot? I look one every day in my driveway. It has a 175 hp variable valve 2.4 liter 4 cylinder, all wheel drive, traction control, CVT, Stability control, ABS, and gets 35mpg on the highway at an average speed of 75mph. All this for $17,500. since march of 2008 I've put 65,000 miles on it, in all types of wether on paved roads and not, and it has been trouble free.

Forgive me for being rude about your purches and your right, as a vehicle they have been very reliable. But so were the neon and pt cruiser. But the Patriot just doesnt strike me as jeep. I understand they wanted small vehicles for the jeep only stores to sell but I feel they compromised they're rep in doing so. Just my 2 cents. Meaning no harm. Hope I didnt offend anyone.

[Chuck Most]

But the Patriot just doesnt strike me as jeep. .

Same here (add the Compass to that, as well), BUT...

The original Jeepster wasn't much of a Jeep, was it? You wouldn't have seen Patton tooling around town in a bright red, wide-whitewalled Jeepster! Mabye a Patriot isn't a 'real' Jeep in some people's minds, but hey, it's pretty good for what it is, and manages to look pretty cool at the same time! Since practically nobody wants a 'Trail Rated' 4x4, I kind of think Jeep had to branch out a bit to keep its head above water. Now, about the Liberty...

I really have to wonder how well separating the Dodge/Ram lines will work- didn't they try that with the Imperial? For a few years, Imperials weren't Chryslers, they were their own line above Chrysler, but everybody kept calling them ChryslerImperials, and the muddy 'brand identity' is what ended up killing it as its own division. Assuming the average consumer hasn't gotten any 'sharper' since then, I don't see the launch of Ram as its own separate brand being very successful.

[Chuck Most]

Nothing. The Patriot/Caliber/Compass/Sebring/Avenger gets hammered from all corners and I just don't get it.

And, aren't these cars based on Mitsubishi architecture, and while the Mistu versions get heaped with praise, the Mopar versions get heaped with scorn? Or am I thinking of another platform?

[Chuck Most]

Other way around. The Mitsu cars use what was primarily a Chrysler-designed platform.

Ah... surprised I was even THAT close to being right!

[Chuck Most]

I kind of chuckled at the 'Trail Rated' thing, too, but it's not as awful as GM sticking that little chrome GM badge to the doors of everything it sells. For what? In case you think your Avalanche was build by Smart? Then again, Chrysler did the same thing in the '60's and '70's. (Then they wonder why there's no longer any such thing as 'brand identity', or whatever the marketing gurus are calling it these days.)

[Joe Handley]

Problem with the Liberty and the Caliber offshoots, is that they replaced the Cherokee, and just aren't the trucks the Cherokee were, and in all honesty, I'm not sure if they're worthy of replacing the old Eagle 4wd cars that AMC built prior to Chrysler buying the brand. I have a hard time even considering the WK and current Grand Cherokee's that, since the Grands were slightly up-sized Cherokee's. Maybe they should have called those Jeepster or Wagoneer instead.

[charlie8575]

So, in my opinion, it was a very capable "out of the box" off-roader. & it was nice to know that the ability was there - even if we never really used it.

I think that's the whole point of "Trail-Rated."

As Dave said, most Jeep owners don't go mudding, off in the woods or other serious 4-WD duty, but the capability to get through some very nasty stuff is there if you need it, and for many people, that peace of mind brings all the reassurances they need that they stand a reasonable chance of getting home, no matter the weather.

Living in New England, I can attest to the popularity of Jeeps. I think the Liberty and Grand Cherokee hold #2 and #3 behind the Ford Explorer for best selling SUV in the region, and with the number of them on the road, I believe it.

Charlie Larkin

Edited October 29, 2010 by charlie8575

[moparmagiclives]

The Lancer even offers a version of the MyGig (or whatever ChryCo calls it this year) radio with music-download capability and CVT transmission.

I always thought chrysler went after the Galant?, Who knew... But I do know the jatco trans isnt a chrysler thing, and neither is the "new world engine" that was built for several brands. Im guessing the radios probly arent either. Now the new Raider, thats just plain wrong.. .

[Harry P.]

Assuming the average consumer hasn't gotten any 'sharper' since then, I don't see the launch of Ram as its own separate brand being very successful.

Ram is already a known brand, they're not really launching a new nameplate... just removing the "Dodge" part of the name. I think most consumers won't even notice or care.

[Harry P.]

A few new (at least to me) 2012 Viper renderings:

http://www.allpar.co...odge-viper.html

[Harry P.]

They're leaving it purposly ambiguous. They're well aware most people won't notice the change, and really would probably prefer it that way.

On the corporate websites (Chrysler, Dodge, Ram, etc.)... at the bottom right, where they display the corporate logos, Ram is shown as a separate logo, along with the logos of Chrysler, Dodge and Jeep. The implication (to me, at least) is that Ram is now a separate nameplate/division. Don't know what, if any, difference that makes to the consumer.

But then again, Chrysler has always played fast and loose with their own brand identities. They sold Chrysler Imperials, then just Imperials. They sold Dodge and Plymouth Neons. Who knows where this new Ram thing will eventually end up?

[Harry P.]

Speaking of Chrysler design... am I the only one who thinks their vehicles have been getting uglier and uglier? The old Avenger from the late '90s looked light years better than the current version. Same with the 300. Lately all of Chrysler's cars (except maybe the Challenger) have this lumpy/boxy/bulgy/hard-angle look.

Is this "progress?" Not to my eye:

1997 Avenger

2010 Avenger:

I used to be a real fan of Chrysler styling. Not any more...

[moparmagiclives]

All the key decisions were made by Chrysler and Hyundai, with Mitsubishi merely getting in on the ability to buy the finished product.

Dont you mean Diamler . The whole universal, one size fits all parts exchange was very high on they're list of "to do's". We still see it in a lot of things. And I dont know of any manufacture that is well known for making anything other than a "automobile" All they do is put them together. The rest is left up to Grandpa Bosch... I dont know that I would put a whole lot into one generation of a model to the next as far as progression goes. Seems to me they use the name as more of a selling point then they do the product. But I do like the older avenger better too....opps, another DSM product ???

[Craig Irwin]

If Fiat hasn't improved a "few" things in the last 25 years you better buy a pair of hiking boots to go along with your new car.

[Harry P.]

Car and truck styling used to be very different...now they've largely met in the middle and the "truck" styling cues are heavying-up car styling something fierce.

I'm no fan of the "urban assault vehicle" look... or the "gangsta" styling of the current 300. Even the current Chrysler minivans have that phony "tough guy" styling!